ATF: Cyclone - Water lines freezing

[05ford]

What I need is pictures, drawings or prints of the underbelly of the CY 4018 so I can see how I can overcome the kitchen water supply problem. I also could see where breaking the holding tank heaters down into zones when one could control them individually would be more convenient. So if anyone could supply prints, drawings or pictures of the underbelly it would be greatly appreciated. The valves to the holding tanks also need additional protection as well from the elements.
Everything is heat taped from the faucet to the camper but I still have the lines freeze up someplace inside. I do have the Yeti package but I don't need the tank pads on since I'm not storing any water.

 

[danemayer]

Hi 05ford,

You might find our owner-written Water Systems Winter Usage Guide helpful.

You might also call Heartland Customer Service at 877-262-8032 / 574-262-8030. Have your VIN # ready. They may be able to email you a plumbing diagram. However, unless you're prepared to put heat tape on your kitchen and perhaps other water lines, I'm not sure it's going to help.

If you want to protect the gate valves from freezing, I'd suggest building a mini-enclosure of 3/4" foam board under the off-door-side of the rig to enclose the area under the gate valves. Then put a ceramic disc heater in the enclosure sitting on a piece of wood or other support. A thermostatically controlled outlet that triggers at 20 (F) will reduce the electric bill.

And of course you have to run the furnace quite a bit to pump warm air into the underbelly. If by chance you're trying to save on propane, you'll continue to have problems no matter what you do.

Btw, I'm kind of wondering about your not using the tank heaters. Don't you have water in your black tank?

 

[05ford]

I will give Heartland a call and see if I can get the prints.
Actually we have just added insulation board all around the camper and we have put a little electric heaters under the camper and in the storage area. Didn't have a problem with frozen lines the last couple days. We use the furnace but don't have it up to high with the electric heaters we have.
No black water use right now the camp ground don't have sewer hookups where we are and the bath house is right across the path. Mainly sleeping in it right now due to 12 hour work days

 

[TravelTiger]

If your unit has low-point drains, that could be the source of the freezing. Even wrapped in pipe insulation, if they freeze ice can move up into the T and block water supply to kitchen area.

We added Ultraheat pipe heaters to our kitchen lines and fresh tank supply line. While we were at it, wrapped every pex line in underbelly with pipe insulation -- pipes touching your frame can freeze against the cold metal.

http://www.ultraheat.com/pipe_heaters.html


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[oscar]

Although you can make a lot of mods and bandages to make it work, I don't feel these units are designed for serious winter operation. I winterize, and when go on spring break I wait until the overnight temps are above freezing before I de-winterize.

 

[danemayer]

Although you can make a lot of mods and bandages to make it work, I don't feel these units are designed for serious winter operation. I winterize, and when go on spring break I wait until the overnight temps are above freezing before I de-winterize.

Oscar,

I started a survey a few weeks ago that you might find illuminating. Only a tiny percentage of people on the forum go anywhere near really cold weather. Here's a link. There was another recent thread where someone asked about using their trailer to go to ski resorts - about 3 of us responded.

Personally, I'd love it if everyone would be willing to pay the extra price so that Heartland could ship trailers factory equipped for -30 (F) - yes I'm one of the 2 people operating at those temps. But with so few people interested in camping in those temps, I don't really expect that would be a smart business decision.

 

[oscar]

Agreed. I can tell you that if I were to look into a camper to go winter camping in I would realize that I would have to spend the extra money for a unit designed and equipped to do so. A Cyclone would not be on my list.

 

[TravelTiger]

Agreed. I can tell you that if I were to look into a camper to go winter camping in I would realize that I would have to spend the extra money for a unit designed and equipped to do so. A Cyclone would not be on my list.

I agree as well, but as more people choose to full time in an RV in general, wouldn't it be prudent to have a design that can withstand freezing temps at least to say 25, for those unexpected cold snaps, without having to make significant mods? It may not need to be additional heaters, but maybe insulated pipe runs, a safely positioned 100w light already behind the basement wall, or other strategically enclosed areas for the vent for the "heated underbelly" to be effective.


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[oscar]

It's all a matter of money. As we well know, the manufacturers weigh EVERY penny they put into those things. Make it look as good as possible and thus sell for as much as possible whilst paying as little as possible to manufacture the thing. This is how (most) business works.

As Dan said, only a fraction of the owners go into winter conditions with these things. Putting all the extra stuff in would not pay for itself.

One can argue that the Yeti package should take care of ALL winter problems, including gate valves and low points. But, the cost of doing so, for so little units would probably not yield the profit that those dollars invested in countertops etc would return.

Again, if you're going winter camping you don't want one of these.

TIP.....When we travel out of winter towards warm weather I have a few gallons of 50/50 pink in the bath tub for flushing. Same in the kitchen.

 

[danemayer]

It's all a matter of money. As we well know, the manufacturers weigh EVERY penny they put into those things. Make it look as good as possible and thus sell for as much as possible whilst paying as little as possible to manufacture the thing. This is how (most) business works.

As Dan said, only a fraction of the owners go into winter conditions with these things. Putting all the extra stuff in would not pay for itself.

One can argue that the Yeti package should take care of ALL winter problems, including gate valves and low points. But, the cost of doing so, for so little units would probably not yield the profit that those dollars invested in countertops etc would return.

Again, if you're going winter camping you don't want one of these.

TIP.....When we travel out of winter towards warm weather I have a few gallons of 50/50 pink in the bath tub for flushing. Same in the kitchen.

We've taken 5 extended ski trips to Breckenridge, CO where there are dozens of other RV'ers dealing with really cold weather, often down to -30 (F). Our Landmark does pretty well, but I've had to do quite a few things to keep the water running when temps drop.

I have yet to see any RV visiting Tiger Run in the Winter that doesn't need extra equipment and special procedures to keep water running inside the coach. I remember one guy who traded his RV in at the show in Denver one Winter to get one that claimed to be a "True 4 Season RV". It was set up one day and he was calling the dealer the next day because everything was frozen. Even the very expensive motorhomes need help. The guy next to me this season had problem after problem in his Tiffin coach - many were weather related.

I don't think any RV is built to keep water running in extreme cold weather. It could be done, but I haven't seen it being done.

 

[Randor]

I have been living in an RV for the past 7 months right in the middle of the Rockies. I started out with a Wilderness 3150B and now a Cyclone 4150 (needed more room). With the wilderness I had to leave just a trickle of water running to keep the pipes from freezing. On the Cyclone I have the Canadian and Yeti packs. I have found that as long as the propane heat is running, the pipes are good. Unfortunately, the heater blew up after a few weeks and I had to go to electric heat (still waiting for the heater to get fixed). Without the heat going through the vent ducts, the pipes freeze up and I have to keep a small trickle going. That works fine if connected to sewer and not boondocking. I've had no issues with the heated supply hose freezing and the park heats the supply line. I don't have a skirt on the Cyclone yet, but that would help a lot if combined with a low wattage heater.