ATF: Landmark - Drawer support

[EPaulikonis]

I'm adding photos for HL to consider an upgrade to pantry cabinets. I'm contacting HL customer service to handle documenting the problems so I can get them fixed when the coach is in the shop for annual service in Nov.

My Landmark has been out on the road several times over the past year and we discovered that the drawers for the pantry next to the stove had failed with a minimal load (sugar, toaster, small boxed food items). I'd put weight in the drawer under 20lb. total. The weight of contents caused the bottom of the drawer to completely separate and fall, becoming lodged in the frame. I had to use a putty knife to lift the original support in the center of the drawer above the frame to open the drawers. Two of the attached images are my method of fixing the drawer support issue. I guess only time will tell if the added support will hold up to the rigors of travel on US highways.

I also had an issue with the trim around the shelves in the forward walk-in closet. The entire frame had come loose during our last trip. I'm really not confident in my fix for this problem because there's almost no frame behind the frame to attach it. I tried to fit the hardware back into the holes already created and used construction adhesive to try and make it stick better.

Final request is to find a better way of securing the handles on the shower doors. Both of the aluminum handles came off on our last trip. We were very lucky that none of the doors shattered during travel being they could move freely since the locking mechanism is tied into the handle that fell off.

 

[jbeletti]

Eric - I see you have a Savannah. I had one of those - loved it! I wanted to let you know that as late June 2014, the only Landmarks being made were Landmark 365. All LM 365s have much better built drawers. This doesn't help you, but I wanted to let you know this is an area Tom M made great improvement in.

 

[EPaulikonis]

Figured it was an improvement when the 365's hit the market. I'd seen others who mentioned drawer support as well. Just happy to see that HL once again took user feedback and made an improvement on the next iteration of the coach.

Overall, we're very happy with our Landmark. Just putting the finishing touches on the minor issues we've encountered. HL has done a good job working with us to resolve the few problems we've encountered.

 

[travlingman]

What did you use to support the drawers? Ours have fell apart too. Has your walkin pantry shelves fell yet? If not, be prepared as they will.

 

[EPaulikonis]

I added the 1 X 2 to the bottom of the drawer and secured it with wood glue and finishing nails. Not much to grab into with the nails, and it did put one in from the front of each drawer since that's where it was falling off of completely. Attached image shows nail locations into the wood. I had considered adding the 1 X 2 to the frame itself to provide support during transit, but adding to the drawer base was easier. If the current install fails, I'll take the additional time to work the frame solution.

Pantry shelving has fallen as well. Didn't realize how few screws were used to support the tracks. I put in additional screws for now and we're considering tearing them out completely to add an aluminum wire shelf. We'd already done this in the W/D closet and it worked really well. We bought the shelving from the Container Store and picked up pipe securing hardware from Lowe's to attach it to the walls. Haven't had any issues with the install and the racks are capable of a lot more weight than the OEM plastic install.

 

[travlingman]

Thanks. Will give it a try.

 

[Roller4tan]

On my shower doors I used a two part epoxy for wet locations. I cleaned the area and handles of any residual glue, and carefully bent the handles in a little to make the slot a bit smaller. I added a strip of gorilla tape to the mounting location, mixed the epoxy and using a cue tip applied it to the inside of the handle. I then pushed it onto the glass and tapped it with a rubber mallet to fully seat it onto the glass and wiped up the excess dripping down the glass. Nice and solid now.

 

[porthole]

I added the 1 X 2 to the bottom of the drawer and secured it with wood glue and finishing nails. Not much to grab into with the nails, and it did put one in from the front of each drawer since that's where it was falling off of completely. Attached image shows nail locations into the wood. I had considered adding the 1 X 2 to the frame itself to provide support during transit, but adding to the drawer base was easier. If the current install fails, I'll take the additional time to work the frame solution.
View attachment 39187

Is that drawer built with four sides and face? Or just four sides?

Either way, properly built, all four sides should have a dado to support the bottom panel.
Most Heartland trailers have been advertised in the past with a cement block in the drawer. That would need a proper 4 side dado to work.

 

[Toy1Ton]

I don't get it, I saw a picture where Heartland put a cement block in a drawer and it held up. Please don't tell me that was photo shopped

 

[swburbguy]

Looks like quality cabinets are out for more profit on a TOP of Line Rig

 

[EPaulikonis]

Dados on the two short sides, but not the face or rear of the drawer. The cement block in the brochure was placed in the drawers in the sink and/or stove assembly cabinets. They're plenty sturdy, but the ones in the bottom pantry aren't designed the same. All three of the drawers in my Landmark had separated on the front leading edge of the drawer. No other issues with any of the sliding drawers throughout the coach.

For the group, I did get in touch with Tom M. via e-mail. HL now outsources the build of these on the 365s.

Thanks for the tip on epoxy for shower door. I've already used the shower construction adhesive, but I'll change it up if my application fails. I'm also going to see about adding some type of tie downs near the door so I can run a short bungee cord to alleviate some of the stress to the door handle and to provide backup in the event of another handle failure.

Is that drawer built with four sides and face? Or just four sides?

Either way, properly built, all four sides should have a dado to support the bottom panel.
Most Heartland trailers have been advertised int he past with a cement block in the drawer. That would need a proper 4 side dado to work.

 

[porthole]

Dados on the two short sides, but not the face or rear of the drawer.

Then that is not a proper drawer - just some wood slapped together. It literally take seconds to add the two additional dados. NOBODY can claim craftsmanship doing woodwork like that.

 

[EPaulikonis]

So the next iteration of this topic has been brought up in October. Was getting the RV set up for storage and started going through all of the different spaces looking for stuff. Found multiple sliding drawers in kitchen island, fixed stand next to the stove, and in the bedroom that had separated on the front, back, or both front and back of the drawer as mentioned previously. Every sliding drawer in the coach is made using 2-dados down the long side with the 1/16" lauan being stapled to the front and rear of the drawer.

I made contact with JC from HL Warranty Department and he confirmed my coach is under warranty. So I asked the question what HL would do to fix the issue? He said they'd replace the drawers. Great...with what type of drawer? If it's going to be the same setup, it's a waste of time because they're not going to last because they're not built to last, especially not in a rolling earthquake. JC told me I'd get what was available at the factory, but he didn't know what it would be. Figured I'd contact the Landmark GM (Andy Wesdorp) to see if he could shed some light on the replacement drawer. Andy deferred to the folks at warranty, back to JC.

Regardless, I'm submitting a claim when my 2015 Landmark Savannah goes into Dave Arbogast RV in Tipp City, OH, for service in Nov. Going to request all 3 drawers in the pantry, 3 on the island, 4 on the stove side, and all 8 in the bedroom be replaced due to the bottom lauan falling out.

Can anyone from the factory give me some feedback on what the drawer replacement will be when the repair is submitted and approved under warranty?

 

[danemayer]

Hi Eric,

ATF goes to Andy and since you've already heard from him, I doubt he has anything to add.

Warranty replacement parts are typically a direct replacement. In the case of drawers, where they almost certainly are made to order for the warranty claim, they'll be made based on the engineering drawings/specs for your VIN #. I suppose it's possible that a change could have been made in how cabinet drawers are assembled, but apart from that I'd expect the same as what you have now.

FYI, because the drawers have to be made to order, it could take 4-6 weeks to get them.

 

[Westwind]

It's not an answer most owners of new FW in warranty want to hear but I have more confidence in my efforts to make repairs and improvement to my Bighorn then a dealer.
No dealer is equipped to do cabinet repairs and if they have employees with the skills to do cabinet repairs then they are a rare dealer. I'm not to impressed with the cabinet finish work in my Bighorn. Within the first month the finish was coming off the cabinets exposing white wood, I have the maple glazed cabinets. Right now all the drawer/cabinet fronts need to be refinished - one of my many summer jobs.

 

[EPaulikonis]

You're absolutely right...it's not an answer I was willing to accept. I'm handy with tools and I was prepared to fix it myself, but it's one of those things I felt worthwhile pursuing. The industry will not change if we as consumers don't make the effort to elevate expectations and hold them accountable. The part that really irritated me was the literature showing touting the stability of the drawers by picturing a cement block of 50lb. in a photo. The first drawer that failed was in the pantry sliding drawers and the root cause was a 5lb. bag of sugar.

My service manager at Dave Arbogast in Troy, OH is the best. Josh always takes extra special care of my rig and I have good confidence in him and his team working on my rig. They also have a carpenter on staff because of the modifications they perform at the shop. The carpenter did what I'd planned to do on my own. I'm thankful in the end the HL approved the repair and the shop completed the work.

I've voiced my concern over HL quality to every HL warranty rep I've spoken with and the two Landmark GM's I've spoken to since owning the rig. HL is slipping into the normalized portion of the industry and it's going to cost them customers in the long run. HL was hungry to do and be something different when the brand started and their customers recognized it by touting their willingness to stand behind a quality product. Now they're becoming either overwhelmed with the growth or content with their market shares and profit margins. Either way, build quality isn't where it should be for a 6-figure 5th wheel, IMHO.

I'd be willing to participate in a brand focus group to talk through issues with the factory. Kind of surprised HL hasn't worked with the owner's group to do something like that already. Surveys about what you'd like to see offered in a coach are nice, but how much savings could the company realize by focusing on quality at the start of design with the engineering team using real-world customer experience? Hazardous items like chaffed wiring under a bed that opens and closes with the slide could be avoided in the design phase. A change that would cost almost nothing to the company could possibly save a family's life and their possessions by eliminating a serious fire hazard that most owners are aware of today. The drawer quality is no different. Take a few extra minutes to add 4 dados to the existing design and you've got a quality built rigid drawer. So it takes an hour longer to build all the cabinets by cutting the extra dados; how much does the company spend on warranty work for things that are falling apart in a 2-year span? Realized profits slip away with every warranty claim filed due to less than outstanding engineering and build quality at the factory.

It's not an answer most owners of new FW in warranty want to hear but I have more confidence in my efforts to make repairs and improvement to my Bighorn then a dealer.
No dealer is equipped to do cabinet repairs and if they have employees with the skills to do cabinet repairs then they are a rare dealer. I'm not to impressed with the cabinet finish work in my Bighorn. Within the first month the finish was coming off the cabinets exposing white wood, I have the maple glazed cabinets. Right now all the drawer/cabinet fronts need to be refinished - one of my many summer jobs.