Autoformer bad or incompatible? Electrical Issue at a State Park Campground in Illinois

[jbeletti]

I believe I either:

1. Have a problem with my 50 amp Hughes Autoformer or
2. Have an incompatibility with the Hughes Autoformer and this Campground's electrical system

Background:
I have used a Hughes Autoformer for 4 seasons now in 2 different RVs and have done so all over the country.

This weekend, I am at Siloam Springs State Park, near Clayton, IL. The park has a two campgrounds in it. Per the Park Ranger, when they upgraded the sites in the early 90s, they were mandated by code to use GFI breakers for all 30 and 15 amp circuits at the RV Power Pedestals.

I am using my Autoformer here with a 50 to 30 amp adapter (as I have done elsewhere extensively and successfully).

Current Issue:
I am tripping the 30 amp GFI breaker at the power pedestal every couple of hours. I have made sure I am drawing minimal current by using only the small air conditioner and shutting nearly everything else down. No help - breaker continues to trip.

The park ranger felt that because I have a GFI circuit in the RV, that it will not play well with GFI service at the campground. I pushed the test button on the GFI outlet to disable it and no difference. I shut off the AC breaker that feeds the GFI circuit and no difference.

The Cure?:
Last night at midnight, outside with a flashlight resetting the breaker, I decided to take the Autoformer out of the circuit. Viola! It has not held for 10 hours. So I think we are now good.

Final Analysis:
It would "appear", since the breaker has now held for nearly 12 hours, that the Autoformer is either defective or incompatible with campground power service that uses GFI breakers at their power pedestals.

Appeal:
Not with a surge protector device and not with an EMS, but with an Autoformer (Hughes or other brands), what has your experience been when connected to power systems that are protected with a GFI breaker?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[kakampers]

Jim...last year we had a similar issue with our autoformer. However, we only use it when voltage is low to "boost" the voltage. We sent it back to Hughes and they repaired it and sent it back, good as new.

Years ago we did have an issue with the GFI circuit in the trailer (this is before EMS and autoformer use), not working with the GFI on the pedestal in a COE park. Ken disconnected the GFI in the trailer and it worked fine while there...reconnected it later and never had that issue again.

 

[branson4020]

Jim,

Confused.. Were you tripping the 30A breaker (over-current) or the GFI protection (ground-fault?)

 

[Recovered from 25-May-2010]

Jim,

Confused.. Were you tripping the 30A breaker (over-current) or the GFI protection (ground-fault?)

Bob,

It's a single GFI breaker. I don't see any indicator on it for over-current vs GFI protection. We are very certain we're not maxing the circuit out.

Jim...last year we had a similar issue with our autoformer. However, we only use it when voltage is low to "boost" the voltage. We sent it back to Hughes and they repaired it and sent it back, good as new.

Years ago we did have an issue with the GFI circuit in the trailer (this is before EMS and autoformer use), not working with the GFI on the pedestal in a COE park. Ken disconnected the GFI in the trailer and it worked fine while there...reconnected it later and never had that issue again.

Kathy,

I tried tripping the GFI outlet, then shutting the breaker off for that circuit - to no avail on either. Maybe I need to pull the ground and neutral out of the ground and neutral buses in the breaker panel to effectively remove the GFI outlet from the system.

Update for all:

Removing the Autoformer was NOT the fix. While it held for about 13 hours, the CG pedestal GFI breaker did trip. Twice so far. Now it is storming like mad here. I am envisioning being out in the rain a few times throughout the night. Ugh!

Jim

 

[porthole]

Well it could be just a defective GFI breaker, not that unusal.

I'm surprised you don't have the Progressive surge protector installed. I put one in right before Nashville (along with my nifty power cord reel).
The Progressive unit has optional remote displays which read volts & amps of each leg and frequency of both. It also will not allow faulty campground wiring to connect to your RV and cuts out the circuit for low or high voltage.


During our last trip I have found while trying to use my 50 amp cheater box.

• Nashville: 30 and 20 amp receptacles on separate circuits, cheater box worked fine except as it was wired my large AC was on the 20 amp side and was tripping the breaker. Before I had a chance to switch the legs in the box a park employee came over and told me they do not allow the cheater box :-(
• Ceasar Creek State Park, Ohio, 30 with a 20 amp GFI. Cheater boxes are not compatible with GFI circuits (supply) :-(
• KOA Hagerstown/Antietam, Maryland, 30 and 20 on the same circuit. When I tried both AC's, hot water heater and something else I tripped the breaker - in the main building - at 11:30pm :-( Ended up running a 15 amp extension cord over to another site so we would at least have 1 AC running during the night, and coffee in the morning.

 

[JohnDar]

Here's a definition of a GFI circuit breaker's function:

Circuit Breaker Type: In homes equipped with circuit breakers rather than fuses, a circuit breaker GFCI may be installed in a panel box to give protection to selected circuits The circuit breaker GFCI serves a dual purpose - not only will it shut off electricity in the event of a "ground-fault," but it will also trip when a short circuit or an overload occurs Protection covers the wiring and each outlet, lighting fixture, heater, etc. served by the branch circuit protected by the GFCI in the panel box.

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/stry/gfci#ixzz0uep1oUmo
​

There is a very good chance the one in the pedestal is bad/worn out, or the wiring has become loose. They don't necessarily last forever, especially if they've been activated many times, for whatever reason. Have you tried another site?

 

[kakampers]

Quote "Kathy, I tried tripping the GFI outlet, then shutting the breaker off for that circuit - to no avail on either. Maybe I need to pull the ground and neutral out of the ground and neutral buses in the breaker panel to effectively remove the GFI outlet from the system."

Jim, that is what Ken did...he physically disconnected the GFI in the trailer's panel box...took care of the problem while there. He reconnected when we left and it never happened again. It was some problem with the GFI on the campground's pedestal....

 

[mrcomer]

Well it could be just a defective GFI breaker, not that unusal.

[*]Ceasar Creek State Park, Ohio, 30 with a 20 amp GFI. Cheater boxes are not compatible with GFI circuits (supply) :-(
[/LIST]

Hey Duane,
Wish I knew you were in the area. You were about 10 minutes from my house. We could have gotten together for dinner or just BS. Bummer dude.

Mark

 

[porthole]

I knew you were somewhere in Ohio but just didn't think of it while we were there. Would have been a good reason to stay another night!

 

[Recovered from 25-May-2010]

UPDATE:

John - I think you are correct. I think the breaker in the box is tired. Removing the Autoformer from the system worked for about 13 hours. Then we were back to very short intervals of working. Then I pulled the hot and neutral that feeds my RV GFI circuit, from the RV AC panel breaker and neutral bus. Still no good.

That all said, the RV GFI circuit and the Autoformer could have played some role in all this, but with them completely eliminated from the system and still having the same issue, they are not the bulk of the issue. Sadly, the Ranger was not able to make it over to replace the breaker before we went to bed on Saturday night, so we boondocked it Evening weather, while quite humid, was cool enough with a couple windows open. I kept the refer powered separately on an extension cord to the 15 amp circuit in the CG's power pedestal.

Next year, I am taking site 3A - it's got a 50 amp circuit and I am told they are not using GFI breakers for those.

Jim

 

[Recovered from 25-May-2010]

Update to my own update

I called Hughes today to ask them if the Autoformer is compatible with campground power systems that use GFI breakers. I was told it is NOT compatible with them. So that may explain the long run-time we got after I removed the Autoformer from the system. Of course, it does not explain why we continued to lose power thereafter. I still think we had a weak breaker at the pedestal.

Jim

 

[porthole]

Well that kind of stinks. More and more CG's in the future as they upgrade will be subject to "current" codes.