Continued Errors by Heartland

[porthole]

This is not an issue since we ordered with disc brakes, upgraded axles and 17.5 Goodyear G114 H rated tires

We live in central Texas and are buying the Landmark from Great Lakes RV Center in Indiana so we will have a pretty good trip to pick it up. They have told us we can stay a couple of nights on their lot to make sure everything is okay before we head back. I tried to buy local from Explore USA but the two locations near us never found the time to give us price. They were always going to get back with me but never did. It cost them a sale.

I bought my trailer there. That works out great if you have the ability to make the trip.

I spent several days on location, had some issues and before I left for my 750 mile trip home I was 100% satisfied (still am 5 years later). Although I did preemptive strike the suspension.

Great Lakes is Heartland's first dealer, and the proximity to the factory is a very big plus if something needs to be replaced.

 

[MTPockets]

I bought my trailer there. That works out great if you have the ability to make the trip.

I spent several days on location, had some issues and before I left for my 750 mile trip home I was 100% satisfied (still am 5 years later). Although I did preemptive strike the suspension.

Great Lakes is Heartland's first dealer, and the proximity to the factory is a very big plus if something needs to be replaced.

While in Indiana last September we had a small warranty item and Heartland suggested Great Lakes. I called to schedule an appointment and was told since I didn't buy my rig from them there would be a $150 registration fee. I told them to take a hike. Ended up fixing the problem myself. Registration fee??? I'll remember that when shopping for my next RV.

 

[bob34787]

people all RV'S have problems, some many. I am on my 6th in 5 years, they ranged in price from 88,000 to 160,000 and every one , with exception to my Airstream, required more warranty time than I had possession of it, 4 of them were forest river product and now the landmark san antonio, I thought that heartland would be better, I was wrong, my brand new landmark had non working LEDS, water leaks, steps that took 3 guys to close and enough rust on the frame and slide mechs. to put a Chevy Vega to shame. What I got from Landmark is "rust won't hurt anything" and we do not warranty rust, even though it came with it!

 

[Hunter11]

Dan, since I believe you are in Austin would you mind sharing the Heartland authorized dealer in the area you used after you got your unit home for warranty work? We are in the Dripping Springs area and one of the things I have been worried about is warranty work once we get back from Indiana since I did not buy local. Thanks

 

[SeattleLion]

Great advice! If everyone buying an RV did this, I believe the tide would turn in poor quality being "good enough".

I have to chime in here. It is NOT the customer's responsibility to discover quality problems. It is up to the manufacturer and, by extension, the dealer. I am not an expert at RV's. I am someone who likes to travel with one. I paid a lot of money for my trailer. I have every right in the world to demand that what I get is perfect, not sorta ok, but perfect. Heartland, Thor, and the entire industry owe me that.

I think that someone, hopefully Heartland, will institute buyer surveys. When I bought my Fords, I got two J D Powers surveys to complete: the first was on the buying process; how I rated my dealer's sales cycle. The second came about a month later and asked a lot of questions about my satisfaction with the purchase and the quality of the delivered vehicle.

If either survey came back less than excellent, the dealer is penalized. In the case of my Ford dealer, less-than-perfect satisfaction results in Ford allocating popular, hard-to-get cars, like my Mustang to other dealers. It's harsh, but the point is that the first step is to assure that the customer: you and I, get a defect-free RV.

For the record, I asked the service managers at my dealer how many RV's (all kinds) are delivered without needing warranty work. The answer was None! Not a single RV no matter how expensive is delivered defect-free. Ok, there is a problem. I also asked the Heartland customer service supervisor how many RV's they deliver with no warranty claims. I was told, "very few". I asked if it was fair to say that more than 90% of Heartland products have warranty claims. He said "Yes."

Ok, we can't cure the factory issues since we don't buy the products directly from Heartland, but if Heartland, like Ford, GM, Toyota and the rest of the car industry, would institute satisfaction surveys, then Heartland can start taking control of initial quality. They can force the dealer to clean up their mess. That's ok with me. I don't care who catches the problems, just so long as it isn't me.

 

[Hunter11]

I think that someone, hopefully Heartland, will institute buyer surveys. When I bought my Fords, I got two J D Powers surveys to complete: the first was on the buying process; how I rated my dealer's sales cycle. The second came about a month later and asked a lot of questions about my satisfaction with the purchase and the quality of the delivered vehicle.

If either survey came back less than excellent, the dealer is penalized. In the case of my Ford dealer, less-than-perfect satisfaction results in Ford allocating popular, hard-to-get cars, like my Mustang to other dealers. It's harsh, but the point is that the first step is to assure that the customer: you and I, get a defect-free RV.

I think this is an outstanding idea. I have had Chevrolet send me several surveys asking me to rate my dealer both on the sale process and each time I take my truck in for service. Why would this not work for the RV industry.

 

[jassson007]

I bought my trailer there. That works out great if you have the ability to make the trip.

I spent several days on location, had some issues and before I left for my 750 mile trip home I was 100% satisfied (still am 5 years later). Although I did preemptive strike the suspension.

Great Lakes is Heartland's first dealer, and the proximity to the factory is a very big plus if something needs to be replaced.

It is also where we bought and have no problem recommending them. We did have some small issues that were not initially taken care of due to fact that the one day the service manager was off in forever (family emergency) is the day we pick up our unit. After some prodding by JayC we contacted Brian W at Heartland and we were immediately contacted by warranty dept and service manager who came out to rig at Elkhart campground as we had decided to spend one more night in area and he asked us to come in first thing next morning and he would personally fix the issues that service person previously told us were not fixable. These were fairly minor items with exception of slide scratching vinyl floor. Most everything else had been caught previously. Right before we were leaving and hitching up on street outside the side door from shop we decided to use restroom before pulling out, well door knob decided to quit working. Service manager came out and replace knob for us and had to pull one off a unit from the lot. Other than hic up with him not there it was a great experience. Stay on site with them as long as you need too.


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[SeattleLion]

One more thing. I feel I am just wasting time suggesting this. I know that some Heartland managers read these posts, but they obviously assume we are just ignorant "campers" with pie-in-the-sky ideas. Professionals, like them, "know" that we want much more than we deserve. I think the people I have talked with and corresponded with at Heartland have a genuine interest in me as a customer, but they seem to have drunk the KoolAid about how it is economically impossible to make defect free RV's and that dealers can not be controlled.

If any of you Heartland managers (not just marketing) read this, many of us here on the forum are educated, successful people who have real life experience with tough problems. These suggestions are made in good spirit and motivated by frustration at an industry that is ripe for foreign competition. The bar is very low right now on becoming the best in the industry. Yes, there is a cost. But really, I wouldn't feel even a couple of thousand dollars increase. Two-thousand is only a few percent of the price we pay.

All you need to do is add the surveys as feedback. Use them to clean up your dealer network. Second, analyze your warranty claims and take some action on repeated defects. Want a suggestion on how to get the factory to do better without breaking the bank? Well you probably don't, but what the heck. Set up a bonus plan. Here is one way others do it:

Offer a "total quality" bonus to your factory supervisors. Base it on the amount of warranty money you pay out last year (parts and labor).. Create a pool equal to 50% of the total outlay. At year end, distribute half of the reduction in warranty expense to the factory people. You will be surprised how fast things get better. If you are paying piece work to your floor workers, incentiveizing their supervisors will really change things.

Just my two-cents.

 

[Hunter11]

And could you do all the things Bob speaks of before next Monday when our new Landmark hits the assembly line.......

 

[JohnD]

I work in retail . . . I sell cameras for a living!

If our industry worked the way the RV industry does . . . there would no longer be a camera industry!

Wouldn't it be nice if we could take our defective RV's back within 30 days and have the dealership give us a completely brand new RV to replace the defective junk they sold us on the day of delivery?

That is how it works in the real world of retail sales . . .

I won't hold my breath . . .

 

[BobX2]

When we did our PDI, the tech was great!

Unfortunatly for us, the next time we had to take out Trail Runner in for warranty service, they informed us that the original tech had quit and moved on to a different dealership!

Wish I knew where he went . . . that's where I'd be taking our trailer for repairs.

Windish RV is one of the largest Heartland dealers in the state. Don't know if you have ever checked with them when you had problems, but you might keep it in mind for future needs. I bought my previous RV from them, and they seemed to take pretty good care of me when I had problems with it. That is one of the reasons I was willing to purchase my Sundance from them.

 

[JohnD]

Windish RV is one of the largest Heartland dealers in the state. Don't know if you have ever checked with them when you had problems, but you might keep it in mind for future needs. I bought my previous RV from them, and they seemed to take pretty good care of me when I had problems with it. That is one of the reasons I was willing to purchase my Sundance from them.

They are right next door to the dealership we purchased ours from in Longmont.

Perhaps I'll start taking our Trail Runner there when we need service from now on.

Are you going to the HOC campout in Colorado Springs in May?

We'll be there . . .

 

[SeattleLion]

Our dealer, Fife RV, is amazing. We bought a Kodiak from them and now the Bighorn. They do a great job of taking care of us as customers. But they suffer from the same quality problem as Heartland: They expect customers to find problems. They fix them when we find them but they don't have a structure to avoid issues ever getting to us, the customers.

I've been a management consultant for a long time. I work with very large companies. Nothing I'm suggesting is untested elsewhere. Detroit completely turned the US car industry around by making quality first priority (except for GM ignition switches). Do problems occur? Yes. The dealer network catches them so we, the customers don't have to. The problem is not simple to solve. I never imagined that the RV industry would turn out coaches costing hundreds of thousands of dollars (big class A's) that had obvious defects a customer could spot in a second.

The problem is NOT that there are defects. It's that no one catches and fixes them before the customer takes the product home.

 

[DocFather]

I remember my first automobiles. Not the used ones I got in the early 60's but the new ones starting in the late 60's and early 70's. Brand new cars coming off the assembly line and sold at the dealership and had parts falling off, malfunctioning, and just plain lack of quality control. When Lee Iacocca left Ford to save Chrysler in the late 70's, one of the things I remember is that he stressed safety AND PRIDE in workmanship of the assembly line. As far as I am concerned, it worked, and not only at Chrysler, but it spread to Ford and GM as well. I cannot remember a new car/truck I have bought since 1980 that was not quality and manufactured with pride and quality. THIS is what is appears is lacking in my experience with Heartland and what I read here. Simple pride in people's workplace and final product. Unless it changes, this will be my one and only HL acquisition.

 

[DocFather]

Our dealer, Fife RV, is amazing. We bought a Kodiak from them and now the Bighorn. They do a great job of taking care of us as customers. But they suffer from the same quality problem as Heartland: They expect customers to find problems. They fix them when we find them but they don't have a structure to avoid issues ever getting to us, the customers.

I've been a management consultant for a long time. I work with very large companies. Nothing I'm suggesting is untested elsewhere. Detroit completely turned the US car industry around by making quality first priority (except for GM ignition switches). Do problems occur? Yes. The dealer network catches them so we, the customers don't have to. The problem is not simple to solve. I never imagined that the RV industry would turn out coaches costing hundreds of thousands of dollars (big class A's) that had obvious defects a customer could spot in a second.

The problem is NOT that there are defects. It's that no one catches and fixes them before the customer takes the product home.

Wow, Bob - I was typing my post at the same time you were. LOL

 

[Speedy]

I find it quite funny that all the post regarding poor quality of RVs are always related/compared to the auto industry as to "how things should be done". It's an apples to watermelons comparison unless you are basing it on cost or the fact both have tires on them. RVs should always either be compared in quality to houses or nothing at all. Heartland makes a good quality product for the price point they are shooting for, there are other manufacturers that use higher quality components and build standards but most will not pay 200K for a trailer. Which I find funny because those same people have no trouble dropping 60-65K on a tow vehicle.

For what it's worth I trust Heartland's quality way more than I do Ford which I got burned twice on F350's and was told so sorry your out of the 12K warranty period.

 

[DocFather]

I find it quite funny that all the post regarding poor quality of RVs are always related/compared to the auto industry as to "how things should be done". It's an apples to watermelons comparison unless you are basing it on cost or the fact both have tires on them. RVs should always either be compared in quality to houses or nothing at all. Heartland makes a good quality product for the price point they are shooting for, there are other manufacturers that use higher quality components and build standards but most will not pay 200K for a trailer. Which I find funny because those same people have no trouble dropping 60-65K on a tow vehicle.


For what it's worth I trust Heartland's quality way more than I do Ford which I got burned twice on F350's and was told so sorry your out of the 12K warranty period.

It's not about fruit!!!!! Try quality and pride! LMAO

 

[JohnD]

Detroit completely turned the US car industry around by making quality first priority (except for GM ignition switches).

Yup!

My daily driver is a 2010 Chevy Cobalt.

It was just added to the recall a couple of days ago!

Here we go . . . !



The other night I tried to make the car shut off by jiggling the keys . . . it didn't do it!

However, the key does easily (too easily) turn when just moving it back and forth between off, acc and start.

 

[JohnD]

I find it quite funny that all the post regarding poor quality of RVs are always related/compared to the auto industry as to "how things should be done". It's an apples to watermelons comparison unless you are basing it on cost or the fact both have tires on them. RVs should always either be compared in quality to houses or nothing at all. Heartland makes a good quality product for the price point they are shooting for, there are other manufacturers that use higher quality components and build standards but most will not pay 200K for a trailer. Which I find funny because those same people have no trouble dropping 60-65K on a tow vehicle.

For what it's worth I trust Heartland's quality way more than I do Ford which I got burned twice on F350's and was told so sorry your out of the 12K warranty period.

Wow . . . !

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

I've had good luck with our Bighorn and have been pleased with it for seven years. Am I a cheerleader? Sure why not? It's been to a dealer twice. Once for a reefer cooling unit which isn't really Heartland related and an awning alignment when it was new. It was at the factory several years ago for a frame issue that is a combined Heartland/Lippert issue. So overall, quality has been fine. Is it currently good? I don't know. Being on the forum daily, I have to say I haven't seen any more issues than any other brand.

Rregarding the auto industry, since when is oil consumption of 1 quart per 1000 miles acceptable? According to Chrysler, it's OK for the 3.8 V6 in my 2008 Town & Country.