Diesel Engine Additives (or how to become a chemist in your spare time)

[BigGuy82]

So it's been a few years since my last diesel - a wonderful time before the government tried to help all of us diesel types.

Anyway, I picked up my new F350 diesel dually and wasn't surprised to hear about DEF - I already knew about this stuff that chemically resembled cat urine and felt that it wasn't too big of a deal. However, I'm still trying to figure out how to store it at 68 degrees (the recommended max storage temp) in the truck should I need to carry some of it with me. Maybe I can install a fridge in the bed?

Now, however, comes the real revelation. The dealer proceeds to hand me two bottles - one of Cetane Booster & Performance Improver and one of Anti-Gel & Performance Improver. He explains that the Cetane Booster is intended to increase cetane levels because Ford did a survey in the US and Canada and discovered that cetane levels are often below 40, which has a deliterious effect on the exhaust system. He also states that if the engine components become munged up with soot (or gook or whatever), Ford will not cover this under warranty - therefore - use the Cetane Booster. Then, he explains that in temperatures below 40F, the Anti-Gel is necessary to prevent gelling, which is apparently a common problem and, of course if there are gel problems, there goes the warranty. He also says that I should just use the Anti-Gel all the time - can't hurt and boosts cetane too. OK - I'm not happy but I get it and it's not a huge expense or inconvenience. I buy one case each of this stuff.

Now, of course, I have to figure out where to keep a 20 ounce bottle of each chemical in the truck for when i fill up. I don't want the partially used (you only need about an ounce of each for every 6 gallons) leaking all over the truck so I get a small plastic "bin" with a lock-on lid to fit in the bin under the rear passenger seat - kind of like a "double bucket". "Pretty clever" says I, except for one minor point. I read on the label that this stuff should not be stored above 120 degrees. It doesn't say why - could be product performance, could be flammability ... who knows? But I do know one thing, on a day in the 90's, that interior is going above 120. I'm not sure, but I think this chemical/warranty dance was cooked up by a bunch of bureaucrats and lawyers. If you do have "low cetane" issues, they can always say you didn't use the additive, because who is going to carry around opened bottles of petroleum based products in their new truck?

The good news is that I'm not the only person who owns a late vintage Power Stroke engine. I'm just curious to see what everyone's take is on this nonsense and learn how you handle this little procedure. Oh, and of course, none of this was mentioned before I bought the truck. That said, I still love this truck (truth be known, the RV is for momma and the truck is for me).

 

[Lynn1130]

I think there are a number of "discussions" about diesel and additives and in one I posted an older study on diesel engines and additives. One or more of them are probably listed in the "similar threads" below. I am not trying to put you off rather just saying that it has been a topic of vast discussion in the past.

 

[danemayer]

On our previous 2011 GMC 3500 and the current 2014 RAM 3500 I just depended on the winter additives normally included at the pump. But last Fall, my last fill up must have been with the summer fuel. In December, it got really cold and the truck wouldn't start. Had to use some 911 rescue product to get things going. Since then I've just carried some stuff from the auto parts store and add about 4 oz per tankful. It's supposed to also protect against lubricity problems. It doesn't get all that hot in Colorado, so I haven't worried about high temps. I keep a measuring cup, funnel, and the additive container in a bucket in the truck bed.

 

[rhodies1]

So it's been a few years since my last diesel - a wonderful time before the government tried to help all of us diesel types.

Anyway, I picked up my new F350 diesel dually and wasn't surprised to hear about DEF - I already knew about this stuff that chemically resembled cat urine and felt that it wasn't too big of a deal. However, I'm still trying to figure out how to store it at 68 degrees (the recommended max storage temp) in the truck should I need to carry some of it with me. Maybe I can install a fridge in the bed?

Now, however, comes the real revelation. The dealer proceeds to hand me two bottles - one of Cetane Booster & Performance Improver and one of Anti-Gel & Performance Improver. He explains that the Cetane Booster is intended to increase cetane levels because Ford did a survey in the US and Canada and discovered that cetane levels are often below 40, which has a deliterious effect on the exhaust system. He also states that if the engine components become munged up with soot (or gook or whatever), Ford will not cover this under warranty - therefore - use the Cetane Booster. Then, he explains that in temperatures below 40F, the Anti-Gel is necessary to prevent gelling, which is apparently a common problem and, of course if there are gel problems, there goes the warranty. He also says that I should just use the Anti-Gel all the time - can't hurt and boosts cetane too. OK - I'm not happy but I get it and it's not a huge expense or inconvenience. I buy one case each of this stuff.

Now, of course, I have to figure out where to keep a 20 ounce bottle of each chemical in the truck for when i fill up. I don't want the partially used (you only need about an ounce of each for every 6 gallons) leaking all over the truck so I get a small plastic "bin" with a lock-on lid to fit in the bin under the rear passenger seat - kind of like a "double bucket". "Pretty clever" says I, except for one minor point. I read on the label that this stuff should not be stored above 120 degrees. It doesn't say why - could be product performance, could be flammability ... who knows? But I do know one thing, on a day in the 90's, that interior is going above 120. I'm not sure, but I think this chemical/warranty dance was cooked up by a bunch of bureaucrats and lawyers. If you do have "low cetane" issues, they can always say you didn't use the additive, because who is going to carry around opened bottles of petroleum based products in their new truck?

The good news is that I'm not the only person who owns a late vintage Power Stroke engine. I'm just curious to see what everyone's take is on this nonsense and learn how you handle this little procedure. Oh, and of course, none of this was mentioned before I bought the truck. That said, I still love this truck (truth be known, the RV is for momma and the truck is for me).

The dealer is correct about cetane level,diesel fuel cetane levels are not as good as in the past due to the BS govt laws .Cetane level is lower than what is needed for good performance,not sure how many use it but I do in my Super Duty,as far as the gel, diesel quality for gelling is far superior than in the past,I would not worry about adding unless you get much colder temps,diesel has a pour pt of -42 F before it turns to wax.If it gets in the low teens then I would add some as a precaution.
my thought....

 

[Doublegranch]

Interesting topic: I have a friend with a 350 Ford and his service writer at Jim Click Ford in Tucson AZ told him never to use any fuel additive except what Ford sells as it would void his warranty!!! I am thinking most fuel additives have the same ingredients and marketed under different names...only a guess on my part, but how would Ford ever come up with a basis to void a warranty by testing the fuel and deciding if it was a "Ford" product or otherwise?

 

[Garypowell]

Over the years I have tried various Cetane boosters. In Florida where we spend the cold months there is no need for ani-gel. I put the bottle into an older "plastic" gas can I have and have another container with the funnel and glass measuring cup (all the plastic ones I tried melted). I use one of the sewer doughnuts to keep it protected.

What I have found is during pulls it is very useful in getting me 1 - 3 MPG extra.....so it pays for itself. When just tooling around I don't worry about it. There is about a 1 MPG benefit but not sure that is worth the trouble.

It does peeve me that it seems a common sales tool that is used is "do this or it will void your warranty". I am sure it has happened but I don't think it is very common to have your warranty voided.....it kind of belongs with that old high school scam of it "damaging your permanent record".

 

[BigGuy82]

I think there are a number of "discussions" about diesel and additives and in one I posted an older study on diesel engines and additives. One or more of them are probably listed in the "similar threads" below. I am not trying to put you off rather just saying that it has been a topic of vast discussion in the past.

Thanks. I did view some of them but I was looking to get something more current, especially as it relates to Ford's stance on additives and what impact they may have on warranties.

 

[Power247]

I used to run Stanadyne when I first got my truck with good performance. I have been running Archoil the last year and my Cummins seems to like it much better. Smoother idle, lower EGTs when pulling and better MPGs.

Greg
2012 | RAM 2500 | CCSB | Custom tuned by Double R Diesel
2016 | Heartland Pioneer | DS310

 

[Doublegranch]

I used Stanadyne as well in my previous Rams 04 & 11 and received some limited results. However both had tuners as well. The 04 increased 2 mpg while the 11 only 1 mpg. On my 16 Ram it did nothing, I also tried a product from D Tech and again saw no MPG, performance difference. Perhaps when the 16 gets broken in, it may change. For now I don't waste my money.

 

[MTPockets]

Regarding DEF storage; I see no reason to carry any as the Ford message center tells you when you have 500 miles to go before you must add. 500 miles is plenty of time, DEF is available everywhere there's a truck stop, auto parts store, Walmart, and others... I use the Ford cetane booster, can't hurt. If it helps, even better..

 

[Jim.Allison]

I love the term "void your warranty" Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment or a product caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage for that failure.

IMHO additives are not needed unless you operate in a region where adverse conditions exist, or if you have poor fuel, or special conditions force you to use those additives. Generally speaking these people know who they are.

 

[Shortest Straw]

I just got my oil and fuel filters changed today and the dealer gave me a bottle of the ford additive and recommended I use it. I use Stanadyne already regularly so I am not sure if I will use the ford stuff. I am not using an additive for performance gains just using it for piece of mind. It is no secret that the cetane levels in diesel fuel are sub par so If I can increase that, that is all the performance gain I need.

 

[travlingman]

No need to carry DEF fluid with you. You will average about 1 gallon of DEF usage per 1000 miles traveled. You can buy at truck stops, Walmart, Tractor Supply, Auto parts stores, etc.

As far as additives, I use the Ford brand PM-22A. It is very good for lubricity and it also a water separator. I put 8 ounces every other fill up. I store in the back of the truck(box, not inside) in a Rubbermaid box. I buy 1 bottle at a time, so unless you are putting serious mileage, a case would be a lot to carry around. As far as anti-gel, I wouldn't worry unless in some extreme cold, below 0 for an extended period. Diesel fuel will change to winter blend which has some in it.

If you decide to use an additive, make sure it is a water separator and not emulsifier. You don't want to run water through your system as it can do damage.

 

[IronJ]

I've debated(argued even lol) this issue on so many ford and/or other forums...

As for anti gel, living in texas it's not necessary..but we get a winter blended fuel anyway...

Now the cetane is a different issue...mostly to do with fuel pumps....the lubricity of usld here does/did not meet the lubricity of euro spec diesel....there were many issues of hp fuel pumps failing....when I bought my first ford I was adding ford pm2 religiously....within a year or two I could not find a pump that didn't have a minimum of 5% bio...

Bio blends increase the lubricity of diesel 10fold...(but do have less power units)...

So I only use the fuel additive now when I tow...I never add anti gel...(the whole tx thing) ...

Now if you wanna open the can of ford spec orange coolant that's another story...lol

As for def I full up before a trip...You will/should get 2k miles before you even get a warning that u need more....and every 7-11 and half butt gas station has a jug (probably a 25$ jug but hey...you waited)...usually I hit a flying J or pilot and they have a handy pump right next to the diesel pump...so I put 65 gallons of diesel and 6 gallons of def...easy peasy

sent from space via an invisible beam from a flying metal dish

 

[danemayer]

If you're on an interstate, DEF is easy to find. On secondary highways, it can take longer.

 

[BigGuy82]

I love the term "void your warranty" Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment or a product caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage for that failure.

IMHO additives are not needed unless you operate in a region where adverse conditions exist, or if you have poor fuel, or special conditions force you to use those additives. Generally speaking these people know who they are.

Therein lies the problem. Fuel is an aftermarket product as are additives. However, if it's a Ford additive I'm thinking that Ford would have a hard time rejecting a warranty claim when the aftermarket product is their own brand. Personally, I'm thinking that the "void warranty" comment was a dealer statement and not Ford's official position.

We don't have a choice on adding DEF, but a previous poster pointed out that there really isn't a need to carry that as it is readily available and with a 500 mile range warning, that's no problem. I'm not going to not use the combo gel preventer/cetane booster until winter comes, so I don't have to worry about high temp storage problems. I'll still use the Ford cetane booster becuse travelling around the country means that the risk of getting low cetane fuel is much higher (I don't know about the whole country yet, but around here most pumps post the cetane level at 40).

So, here's the remaining problem in a nutshell: Ford clearly states that the cetane booster should not be stored at temps over 120 degrees. You only need one ounce per six gallons of fuel, so that means that you are carrying at least one partially open 20 ounce bottle plus at least one sealed bottle on long trips (unless you want to stop at Ford dealers along the way - figure one bottle treats 180 gallons or about five/six tanks). If you are running in hot climates where the interior temp (or covered bed temp and yes, I cover my bed when the coach is parked and we're sightseeing) reaches over 120, how would you store it?

There really is only one answer to the question - I've got to store it in the truck. Obviously, no one on this forum (so far at least) has had a fire problem with high temp storage, but I'm still going to contact Ford about this and see what they have to say. If it is a fire issue then that's a whole 'nuther problem.

 

[Bob&Patty]

I can't see your additive or DEF being a fire hazard unless your truck burns down. Read the label on the DEF you use. It will tell you how long it lasts stored at a certain temp.

 

[BigGuy82]

I can't see your additive or DEF being a fire hazard unless your truck burns down. Read the label on the DEF you use. It will tell you how long it lasts stored at a certain temp.

Thanks. It's not the DEF I'm concerned about - it's the other stuff. When you smell it, it is definitely a petroleum distillate, hence my concern about flammability. It's probably OK since diesel fuel reaches high temps in the tank during hot weather, but I always like to err heavily on the side of caution. The worse that can happen when I call Ford is that they think it's a stupid question - not the first time I've asked one of those!

 

[danemayer]

I love the term "void your warranty" Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment or a product caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage for that failure.

I don't think the actual legislation requires manufacturers to prove anything where they have a stated exclusion in the warranty. The FTC however has issued clarifying statements which say that the manufacturer must be able to demonstrate that the damage was caused by xyz. However, the FTC document also says that its guidance is just guidance and not law.

More significantly, Magnuson Moss allows manufacturers to state warranty exclusions in their Limited Warranty Statement. If you take the time to read your truck warranty, you'll find some exclusions related to fuel quality, maintenance, etc.

If the manufacturer denies coverage under one of those exclusions, based on FTC guidance, they might be expected to have to demonstrate the connection. Note that "demonstrate" is not the same as "prove" and probably puts less of a burden on the manufacturer if you want to challenge their denial.

When our GMC fuel system disintegrated, one of the first things that was done by the dealer was to analyze the fuel. No doubt this was at the direction of GMC. The warranty statement would have allowed a denial of warranty if the analysis showed a fuel problem that could have caused the damage.

They did cover under warranty. But if they had refused, as Ford has been reported to commonly do, I would have had to try and recover from the fuel supplier, or argue with the manufacturer's analysis. And of course, they have "science" and engineers on their side, prepared to "demonstrate" why the fuel sample justifies the warranty exclusion.

So Magnuson Moss provides some protection. But don't think for a second that it completely insulates you.

 

[mlpeloquin]

DEF can be found almost anywhere, but I learned a lesson on price. Out on an interstate we pulled in and stayed over night. Went to the only auto store and had to pay $28.00 for 2.5 gallons of DEF. I carry two with me on long trips now.

Fuel additives I have tried. I didn't consider it necessary until another GMC owner pulled up behind me and asked if I used one. He just got all new injectors and his mechanic handed him a bottle of Stanadyne. He told him that if he doesn't want to see him again about replacing his injectors, use it. I tried it and Opti Lube. My preference is Opti Lube. I can tell that the engine runs quieter while in the cab. It keeps water in the fuel in solution (separating from), increases the lubricity, and cetane. They have several products. I use the summer one late spring to early fall and the winter one late fall to spring. Keeping the water in the fuel from falling out of solution and increasing the lubricity for the high pressure small diameter injectors on modern diesel engines is my reason. Even some biodiesel fuel does not have the cetane level recommended, has a higher gelling temperature, and is slightly more anhydrous the standard diesel fuel.