EMS: Portable or Built-In?

[porthole]

And I will add that my EMS failed do to an "error" on my part.

My manual did not specify not to be used with an inverter and that is what I did. The manuals have since been updated with that caveat.

In preparing for Hurricane "preparedness" I was looking for yet another way to have electricity available. A couple of hours, even a day or two of no electric isn't too bad.
14 days of no power down right sucks.

I was playing around with a Heart Interface 2500W inverter, running it off my truck. I have 2/0 welding cables running from my batteries to the rear bumper, and the truck has the dual alternator option (350 amps).

I was able to successfully run my trailer off the inverter, even using the heat and AC thrown in for the experiment. All was well and my guess is that the circuit board failed and did not allow a "reconnect" from shore power to the panel box once I was done playing around.

BTW a 1500 watt heater plugged into the trailer and the trailer plugged into the inverter draws 150+ DC amps!

 

[hriker]

Porthole, thanks for adding your comments regarding my post. That is the article I was referring to. I though it was via the forum but was not sure. Question though. You said there are two methods to bypass. I do have the monitor in my 5er. I never turn that off. But if I do am I bypassing the progressive unit? Thank,

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[Gizzy]

Re: Portable or Built-In

We have been using the portable EMS for over 7 years at RV parks and campgrounds all over the country without incident. It has save our RV on several occasions. We like to check the pedestal prior to plugging in the RV. On 2 occasions we found open grounds on the pedestal and once it was wired wrong. We use a bicycle cable lock to secure it to the pedestal. We RVs are replaced the protable EMS goes with us.

There were several times (a few years ago) that we parked the coach and then plugged in the electric only to find out there was a problem and had to go find another site. Now I make it a point to check the electric BEFORE I try to park. I use a tester that I made up from a web site (myrv.us). Go to "50 amp tester" and check it out. It works GREAT and is very handy. I use the 50 amp tester and just use a 30 amp adapter with it if needed.

 

[SeattleLion]

Re: Portable or Built-In

This is all very helpful. In terms of neutral, if the podium is so badly miswired that "hot" is crossed with white then it makes very good sense to isolate the neutral along with the hot leads. In typical wiring, the neutral is connected to ground at the main breaker box and any switching is only done on the hot leads. I can see the benefit of isolating all shore wires. Anything is possible. My concern is still with EMS failure. Regardless of the cause, it is a problem I don't want to face in a campground. If it is built in and located behind the basement wall, I would still have to empty the basement, get some lighting into the area (remember, the power is all gone), open the wall, and do some rewiring to get back in business. The alternative of a manual transfer switch to bypass the EMS is certainly sensible. Without that, regardless of where the EMS is located, bypass requires wiring under less-than-ideal conditions. The portable unit is one more thing to deal with at each campsite. Also, I share the strong attraction to having everything built in. I am not too worried about losing the unit if I trade in the camper. I will be underwater for years and years so it is a real keeper!

So far we haven't found any power problems. We have camped almost exclusively in Washington state parks. Every one we visit has modern podiums with good power, water and sewer. We stayed in one KOA that was not nearly as new or nice, however its power was fine. We also stayed in an Oregon casino RV park which was perfect. This is a really tough one for me. I am experienced at wiring, but a novice at taking vehicles apart. I am much more worried about opening the basement wall than wiring the EMS. I've done commercial electrical work in the past, so messing with some 3/6 romex is no issue.

The concept of bad power is new to me. I am a native New Yorker who relocated to Washington 7 years ago. In NY we have a very strict electrical code. You can't even use Romex there. It's BX or pipe. I have to admit that I am astounded that I could flip a breaker and it wouldn't pop even though there is a serious wiring error. In terms of AC, I think that new units have thermal cutouts that will trip if the voltage drops enough to start overheating the compressor or fan motor. Overvoltage is a new idea to me as well. I am not sure what would cause a serious overvoltage condition besides a lightning strike. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. It's just new to me.

At this point I will resist my do-it-yourself inclination and buy the portable. I like that I can easily check the podium before backing in to a spot and that if the EMS is in trouble, I can just take my chances and connect to the shore power directly. I hate the long time delay for low voltage, but all power conditioners have some sort of delay before attempting to restore power. With the increasingly hot summers, I wonder if we won't see chronic low voltage in some places. In that case, since we don't have a generator, I guess we will be involuntary boondockers.

 

[porthole]

Porthole, thanks for adding your comments regarding my post. That is the article I was referring to. I though it was via the forum but was not sure. Question though. You said there are two methods to bypass. I do have the monitor in my 5er. I never turn that off. But if I do am I bypassing the progressive unit? Thank,

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Harry, when you use the bypass switch on the remote you are turning off the EMS protection features and allowing the relay to activate and pass power.
In the case of a circuit board that failed due to an input power problem (surge - lightning strike - knucklehead plugging in an inverter) the unit does not allow the relay to activate.

When would you use that switch? well if you know the reason the EMS is not allowing power, such as too high or too low input voltage you can take your chance and bypass. Or if you do have an EMS failure that still allows the bypass switch to work.

The second bypass method is physically blocking the relay as in my repair thread.

Back to the first bypass, the switch. A good reason you may need that bypass is if you are running a portable generator (not the built in genny).
Most portable generators do not have a bonded neutral and ground. The Pro EMS "looks" for the that bonded neutral ground. Not seeing it the unit will not pass power. Moving the switch to bypass will allow the EMS to throughput power, albeit without the rest of the protection features.


from progressive's website.

Bypass:

This switch is located on the remote panel, and allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled




I printed this out small, laminated with clear packing tape and have a copy at each switch.

Progressive EMS Error Codes

E-0 Normal Condition
E-1 Reverse Polarity Condition (hot and neutral wires reversed)
E-2 Open Ground
E-3 Line 1 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132)
E-4 Line 1 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts)
E-5 Line 2 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132)
E-6 Line 2 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts)
E-7 Line Frequency High (Line frequency above 69 cycles per second)
E-8 Line Frequency Low (Line frequency below 51 cycles per second)
E-9 Data Link Down
E-10 Replace Surge Protector Module



Using a portable generator with the open neutral issue. There is a simple cheap work around.

Us a 15amp male repair-replacement plug. Jump the ground and neutral in the plug, put the cover back on and then plug that into an empty duplex outlet on the generator.

Using this plug will allow the EMS to see the bonded neutral and ground and allow the power to pass as well as keeping all the other protection in place.

 

[boatto5er]

"Using a portable generator with the open neutral issue. There is a simple cheap work around.

Us a 15amp male repair-replacement plug. Jump the ground and neutral in the plug, put the cover back on and then plug that into an empty duplex outlet on the generator.

Using this plug will allow the EMS to see the bonded neutral and ground and allow the power to pass as well as keeping all the other protection in place."

//heartlandowners.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28694&d=1365876588&thumb=1

Thanks Duane - exactly what I need! I'll be at Home Depot tonight, I'll pick up a plug.

 

[hriker]

Duane,
Thank you for the education on the monitor and switch. If I had an electrical issue I wasn't sure why you would bypass. Genny is a great reason. My unit came with an error code card and I have it taped under my monitor for quick reference. Our progressive saved our bacon just about a month ago. We encountered high voltage in a campground in AL. The voltage was spiked a number of times and went as high as 137 volts and of course when it excessed 132 volts the ems shut the power down. Glad we had it. As a result of the power issue and because they couldn't correct it we got a refund and moved on down the road.

No matter which version is your preference hard wired or portable I believe everyone should have an ems unit in their rig. One bad electrical source will cost you well more then the cost of the ems unit. One of the better insurances I believe I ever purchased.

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[caissiel]

I also opted for the portable Progressive EMS and pre-checking has saved me, on at least one occasion, from backing in to site only to find the power was bad. I have also used a cable to lock the device to the pole but have found many of the power boxes have either a tab or a hole that accommodates a small shank lock to pass thereby locking the plug inside




Same for me as I just used it this weekend for checking power problems. It turned out it was a main line power problem. Fixed after 2 days of waiting. Had to hook on an other site power with extension.
Anyway my 50 amp cable is worth a lot more to a thief the the hardware.


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[chiefneon]

Re: Portable or Built-In

Howdy!

Our 5er now has a EMS 50 amp hard wired into it. When our new Cyclone 4000 is delivered we will be go with a new EMS 50amp portable unit. As stated we have ran into numerious RV site that once parked found problems with the power and had to move. The portable will help solve this I hope. Also when we have had problems with power and advised the park we can actually show them the problem. In the past most parks don't beleive there is a problem are they don't want to deal with it.

"Happy Trails"
Chiefneon

 

[jmgratz]

Re: Portable or Built-In

This built-in or portable discussion is much like the which truck to buy discussion. Much boils down to personal preference as they both do the job.

 

[alex00]

Duane thanks for your insight.

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[danemayer]

Re: Portable or Built-In

Probably pretty rare, but if you get a lightning strike I think the EMS is designed to be sacrificed to protect the coach.

 

[porthole]

Re: Portable or Built-In

Probably pretty rare, but if you get a lightning strike I think the EMS is designed to be sacrificed to protect the coach.

It is supposed to protect.

This built-in or portable discussion is much like the which truck to buy discussion. Much boils down to personal preference as they both do the job.

Pretty much, but - with the hard wired you never get to be lazy and not hook it up "just that one time"

 

[chiefneon]

Re: Portable or Built-In

Howdy!

A couple of years ago we were in a park during a terrible storm. The next day we discoverd we were operating off our battery and solar no prower coming into the 5er, and the EMS was stopping it. The problem was a lighting strick which fried everyone in that section. Our EMS saved us and the same unit is still working today. Would not have a RV without a Progressive EMS.

"Happy Trails"
Chiefneon

 

[szewczyk_john]

Re: Portable or Built-In

My decision was an easy one. When I made up my mind to buy an EMS product I was debating hard wired or portable 50 amp. A member of this site had just listed a portable unit for sale as they had downgraded to a travel trailer that only had 30 amp service. I purchased their portable unit at a great discounted price and now have the piece of mind when we need it. This past season all of our camping was of the boon docking type so we have not yet used it. The National rally will probably be our first time using it. Nothing wrong with being frugal.

 

[KaosAD]

Re: Portable or Built-In

My decision was based on my 27 years in the tech industry. Call me paranoid but I have seen too many surge protectors, battery backups and power conditioners go up in flames. Given that I full time it's too much of a gamble, I went with the portable, plus it can move to a new trailer with me, one time investment.