Engineers & Bean Counters = FAIL

[MissileMech]

I'm getting my TT fixed due to a rear axle loosing itsbow (i.e. bent) causing abnormal negative camber. Heartland only warranty'saxles for one year and Dexter warranty's everything attached to the axles butdoes not warranty their axles. I have read many threads about bent axles and itall seems to be caused by the factories using axles that spec out to the maxstatic load of the trailer. Unfortunately, these things don't remain static anda bad bridge transition on the freeway can easily cause an overload on an axle.My trailer max is 7700 lbs and I have 3500 lb axles. So even with the tonguetaking some of the weight these thing are maxed.

Since the factories apparently understand this they then choose to providelittle to no support for a condition that is foreseeable, bent axles, it seemsto me this is a practice that consumers really need to insist stops. On top ofthat, the bearings are not designed to handle continual use at the max designrating and therefore another foreseeable condition of bearing failure can andwill occur for many.

How is it the factories continually get away with this ridiculousness. Shame onyou Heartland!!! Now I will have to spend several thousand on an upgrade thatthe factories could have completed for hundreds if they made the trailersuspension correct in the first place.

 

[danemayer]

Hi MissileMech,

I think someone has misinformed you on several points.

Heartland doesn't provide the warranty on axles. The warranty is from Dexter - from day 1. As of September 2016, Dexter increased their warranty to 5 years on axles. Prior to that I think it was 2 years.

Warranty covers manufacturing defects, but doesn't cover damage such as bending an axle spindle by hitting a curb.

A 5th wheel trailer has about 20% of it's GVWR resting on the pin and 80% on the axles. For a trailer GVWR of 7700 lbs, fully loaded, but not overloaded, that would yield 1440 on the pin and 6260 on the axles. Leaving about 10% margin. And again, that would be if fully loaded, running at max weight.

If you haven't spoken with Dexter customer service directly, you should do so. And if you have, you should call back and have a respectful discussion about what causes the problem you have. If they suggest it's something other than a manufacturing defect, you should ask for specific information exactly how a determination can be made that it is or isn't a manufacturing defect. A customer service rep's guess based on a phone call is not sufficient to deny warranty coverage for manufacturing defects.

If they direct you to an authorized servicer to get an opinion, you should probably call around to get a sense of how the servicer feels about axles going flat, before they inspect yours.

Of course, you shouldn't volunteer ideas to Dexter about insufficient specs for your trailer, or about road conditions. The axle is designed to go down the roads in this country and certainly Dexter is aware of road conditions when designing axles. If Dexter were to volunteer, without prompting from you, that the axles are undersized for the trailer, then you should ask for a 3 way discussion between the person who says that, and Heartland Customer Service, so that the 2 of them can come to agreement on who, other than you, is responsible for repairs.

Good luck.

 

[RossRagan]

Engineers & Bean Counters = FAIL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Comment deleted

 

[MissileMech]

My service center talked to Dexter after talking to Heartland. Dexter told the service center they do not warranty "bent" axles. This means they did not trust my shop to represent the conditions of the axle and the nature of usage. I called Dexter and they are going to look at it and make a determination to cover just the part...I assume I will have to try to apply some pressure to get labor included.

My trailer has always been on the road with empty tanks a 3-4 lawn chairs in it. Typical equipment in front compartment some dry goods and full fridge. I did haul it once for 20 miles with the black tank half full to agitate it for cleaning. 10% margin is not enough given the road conditions since my rear axle is bent down with both tires showing near equal wear on the extreme inside and the front bearings have an unacceptable amount of play and the shop is recommending replacement. The front axle is not bent. Shop verified it is towing level. 4K miles from factory new and never fully loaded. I am missile engineer and pilot so I understand utilizing equipment within its design parameters.

Cutting the margins too close. I would understand the engineering decisions if there were a significant weight penalty or added cost to put 5.2K axles on at the factory but I am not seeing either as being significant. Replacing one axle under warranty makes it a push I think.

 

[danemayer]

Bent axle is quite different from losing camber. The moment anyone says "the axle is bent" you'll get an immediate response that it's not covered. Accurate descriptions are important.

 

[PondSkum]

Danemayer made some very respectful points and suggestions. Have you taken the trailer across a set of scales?? I think the biggest issue is that LOTS of people do not realize how quickly you can exceed the max capacity of an RV. And if you were loaded above that 7700 lb GVWR then neither company will warranty the damage. As danemayer mentioned, those numbers are calculated to leave a margin over the rated axle capacities. The only correction I would make is that he used the pin weight percentage from a 5th wheel, and it appears that you are towing a bumper pull travel trailer. You should have 10-15% on the tongue of a bumper pull, usually somewhere around 13% is the magic number, but worst case, at 10% your trailer is still just under the rated capacity for the axles. And I'm sure engineers rate the axles for that weight with a safety margin built in for bumps in the road. Otherwise, I'm sure that they would be replacing axles left and right..

Best thing to do would be to run your rig across the scales, completely loaded as you have been towing it, and see what those numbers are. Then if you are below the axle capacities, then you MAY have something to argue. If you are overweight, then you are out of luck.

Good luck with your repairs.

 

[Shortest Straw]

I'm getting my TT fixed due to a rear axle loosing itsbow (i.e. bent) causing abnormal negative camber. Heartland only warranty'saxles for one year and Dexter warranty's everything attached to the axles butdoes not warranty their axles. I have read many threads about bent axles and itall seems to be caused by the factories using axles that spec out to the maxstatic load of the trailer. Unfortunately, these things don't remain static anda bad bridge transition on the freeway can easily cause an overload on an axle.My trailer max is 7700 lbs and I have 3500 lb axles. So even with the tonguetaking some of the weight these thing are maxed.

Since the factories apparently understand this they then choose to providelittle to no support for a condition that is foreseeable, bent axles, it seemsto me this is a practice that consumers really need to insist stops. On top ofthat, the bearings are not designed to handle continual use at the max designrating and therefore another foreseeable condition of bearing failure can andwill occur for many.

How is it the factories continually get away with this ridiculousness. Shame onyou Heartland!!! Now I will have to spend several thousand on an upgrade thatthe factories could have completed for hundreds if they made the trailersuspension correct in the first place.

Sorry you are going through what you are. There is no reason for it. I have always wonder if they included the weight the trailer forces down on the axle when hitting a dip or like you said a bridge transition when they build these rigs. There is a good reason why so many people upgrade their axles and that reason is ignored by the engineers for sure. I hope you get it fixed soon!!

 

[MissileMech]

As you can tell my defense dept computer doesn't like adding text to this site. ;-)

I will also add that I had to have my roof replaced last year due to extensive delamination. This is after all newer line purchased by Heartland, a Cruiser Travel Trailer (Shadow Cruiser), so I'm sure Heartland will make improvements over time. In fact, I was told my trailer was the prototype for the repair by adding wood stringers between the arch joists to provide for a more secure anchor point for the roof underlayment.

It literally has been in the shop longer than on camping trips.

 

[mlpeloquin]

On my Big Horn I too had noticed abnormal negative camber tire wear. I went to a truck trailer alignment shop. I have been a lot of places including across the USA. They said it is normal to have the axle go out of alignment do to the pot holes and general condition of the roads. They said just going down one bad road can do it. To align them they have laser alignment tools that are computer controlled. It was interesting to see. It computes the exact spot to place a tool and how much pressure to apply (jack up and/or pull or push). Had me wait through lunch to double check to make sure that spring memory did not change the alignment. They told me that there are some square axles that are stronger that could be adapted, but changing out to a heaver axle would help since it would be stiffer for the weight the fifth wheel puts on it. Neither would guarantee that it would stay in alignment. Just my rear axle was out of alignment and was flat and bowed slightly towards the front. I have been weighed at two rallies and have equal weight on each axle and within 100 lbs side to side.

 

[katmcd2]

I'm getting my TT fixed due to a rear axle loosing itsbow (i.e. bent) causing abnormal negative camber. Heartland only warranty'saxles for one year and Dexter warranty's everything attached to the axles butdoes not warranty their axles. I have read many threads about bent axles and itall seems to be caused by the factories using axles that spec out to the maxstatic load of the trailer. Unfortunately, these things don't remain static anda bad bridge transition on the freeway can easily cause an overload on an axle.My trailer max is 7700 lbs and I have 3500 lb axles. So even with the tonguetaking some of the weight these thing are maxed.

Since the factories apparently understand this they then choose to providelittle to no support for a condition that is foreseeable, bent axles, it seemsto me this is a practice that consumers really need to insist stops. On top ofthat, the bearings are not designed to handle continual use at the max designrating and therefore another foreseeable condition of bearing failure can andwill occur for many.

How is it the factories continually get away with this ridiculousness. Shame onyou Heartland!!! Now I will have to spend several thousand on an upgrade thatthe factories could have completed for hundreds if they made the trailersuspension correct in the first place.

Our TT is in "shop" right now with a rear axle issue. Heartland & Dexter "talking" as it was still under one year warantee. Guess we were lucky(?), but still waiting of decision about repairs. If they just "patch" may be time to get rid of our fairly new Mallard!

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[mlpeloquin]

Our TT is in "shop" right now with a rear axle issue. Heartland & Dexter "talking" as it was still under one year warantee. Guess we were lucky(?), but still waiting of decision about repairs. If they just "patch" may be time to get rid of our fairly new Mallard!

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

Better and cheaper to put heaver axles on it if you don't trust them then trade it in. Second almost all manufactures use the same axles so you would not change anything.

 

[katmcd2]

Better and cheaper to put heaver axles on it if you don't trust them then trade it in. Second almost all manufactures use the same axles so you would not change anything.

Ok thanks.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Go-Fly]

It's always sad when members have problems with their rigs. Take a few steps back and take a second look at what is going on under your trailer. There's millions of Dexter axles on the road that have no problems. I came off a bridge on I5 outside of Bakersfield Ca so hard that the shelf above the couch sheared off and about 6 drawer bottoms broke out. I ran the trailer over the scales before we left and it was at the max for the trip down south. I saw day light under the tires of the semi trailer in front of me when he flew off the edge of death. There wasn't a thing I could do but hold the wheel real tight and wait for crash. I wonder how many tons of force came down on those axles. That was about 12k miles ago and still no problems. We travel much lighter these days. If we haven't used it in two years, it comes out and goes into storage. Get it fixed and enjoy it.

 

[MissileMech]

When I buy a house I surely don't expect the foundation to be suspect, but it does happen. We enjoy our trailer and I am going to upgrade to 5.2K axles very soon. If I ever load this thing up for a trip eastbound I would not be able to trust it since we have worked very hard to stay light so far. My tow vehicle is an Expedition so I literally can't load this thing up and make it through the mountains. For now, I intend to get it back to serviceable stock suspension, hopefully with some warranty help, and replace or upgrade the bearings. I know other folks use aftermarket parts on the suspension so I will have to do some more research to determine the final build. I never intended to buy a new trailer and have it become a project by year 2. Onward and upward.

Thanks to everyone that posted/shared.

 

[NYSUPstater]

One thought I had was perhaps OP wasn't level front to back whereas the hitch was "high" thus cause more weight to be placed on rear axle and in turn may have caused it to bend.

However, when we had our '06 Cedar Creek (bought new in June '05), we attended a CC rally in late '08 and another member told me I had bent axles cuz the tires were wearing abnormally. Being our 1st RV, I learned something new. Got home and took it to dealer and they contacted CC or vice versa. Nonetheless, CC sent me new axles, tires and upgraded rims and covered install of everything. All due to a bad batch of axles at that time of manufacture.

Like AP said, be cordial w/ both Dexter and HL.

...

 

[TravelTiger]

I never intended to buy a new trailer and have it become a project by year 2. .

I hate to tell you, but owning an RV will always be a "project". No RV was built perfectly, and they become rolling earthquakes each time we move them. Stuff happens. To own an RV in this day and age, you have to be prepared to address issues that will inevitably creep up. You can embrace it, learn from it, overcome it, and move on to enjoy your RV, or fight it and be unhappy with your RV. Doesn't matter what brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[katmcd2]

Ok thanks.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

Just a little frustrated because uo to now dealing with CW & not at all happy. Heartland has been great & very respinsive. We do like our Mallard, almost perfect for our family of 4(2 humans & 2 Golden babies).

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Go-Fly]

I've always been told by the dealer reps that the weight rating on an axle is the safe load weight. Not how much it will carry before it breaks. You have to put a number on it because people need limits. If you have 7000lb axles under your trailer and have a 7000lb load on it, you can safely tow that trailer as much as you want, as long as you want, with proper maintenance. Is this not correct?

 

[PondSkum]

I've always been told by the dealer reps that the weight rating on an axle is the safe load weight. Not how much it will carry before it breaks. You have to put a number on it because people need limits. If you have 7000lb axles under your trailer and have a 7000lb load on it, you can safely tow that trailer as much as you want, as long as you want, with proper maintenance. Is this not correct?

This is my understanding as well. Everything has to have a safety margin.

 

[EWG]

I too had a axel fail. I was pulling into a gas station. The new TT was 14 months old, and also spent 6 months at the dealer during that time. The dealer would not touch it since it was past the 12 months. My roadside insurance got me moved and a supplemental insurance got me on the road after 24 hours. Just happen to cover axels and spindle's. I weighed it on the way home and it was well under the weight. Being chordal and nice to the mfg got me two new axels and the labor to put them on. They also covered my roadside out of pocket expenses. After spending a year on this forum, I found I am not alone on Quality control, and neither are you. So take heart. We have had no real problems in the last year and are looking forward to a new Heartland 5er in the near future.