Fuel additive

[jnbhobe]

I think the quote should read. "Ford 6.0l diesels - owners will be looking at big $$ for repairs, period." Been there, done that.

I have had two 6.0 powerstrokes, put 130K on the 03 and 65K on the 06, used fuel additives maybe 1/3 of the time and never had a moments problem with either one. I always did all the prevenative maintanence I could.

 

[drwalker]

This is not true.

Well you might want to talk to the dealer about this. I can only speak for my Ford 6.0L diesel which is a very temperamental engine. How it was explained to me was that both the fuel and oil additives reduce the problem of stiction of the fuel injection system. Major issue with the the 6.0L engine and at $250 + per injector not to mention the labor $$ to replace them. today's EPA controlled diesel fuel doesn't have the lubrication properties of the old fuels therefore you are not getting the lubricants that keeps the fuel injector tips clean. That is where the additives come in they add the needed lubricants as well as up the cetane number (not by much 3-4 points max) which helps the overall health of the injector tips. The Engine oil additives especially for the Ford 6.0L are needed to help prevent stiction where the oil enters the injector as well as keep the turbo lubricated.

There is a lot of great information on the web as well on this information.

 

[caissiel]

As far as I know stiction of the injectors is caused on the oil side. Low fuel pressures will hammer the injectors. My truck is 8 years old with seldom adding additives and changing the oil at 8k or more intervals and everything has been great as far as injection is conserned. I do believe I am doing the right thing by extending the oil changes to Ford recommended intervals.

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[lwmcguir]

As far as I know stiction of the injectors is caused on the oil side. Low fuel pressures will hammer the injectors. My truck is 8 years old with seldom adding additives and changing the oil at 8k or more intervals and everything has been great as far as injection is conserned. I do believe I am doing the right thing by extending the oil changes to Ford recommended intervals.

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If you aren't operating in extremely hot or dusty conditions there is no reason what so ever not to extend the oil changes. Some of our JD equipment is rated at 500 hours now. We always run the trucks at higher mileage oil changes unless they run mostly on gravel or dirt. done this for the past 40 or so years since the 6.9 came out and before that when we had the converted diesels.

 

[mobilcastle]

If you aren't operating in extremely hot or dusty conditions there is no reason what so ever not to extend the oil changes. Some of our JD equipment is rated at 500 hours now. We always run the trucks at higher mileage oil changes unless they run mostly on gravel or dirt. done this for the past 40 or so years since the 6.9 came out and before that when we had the converted diesels.

As long as we are going here-how often do you change the fuel filter on your trucks?
Thank you
Steve

 

[pegmikef]

Regarding the use of the additive. To me it is simple. The manufacturer recommends it for the 6.7 so I use it.

 

[mattpopp]

Well you might want to talk to the dealer about this. I can only speak for my Ford 6.0L diesel which is a very temperamental engine. How it was explained to me was that both the fuel and oil additives reduce the problem of stiction of the fuel injection system. Major issue with the the 6.0L engine and at $250 + per injector not to mention the labor $$ to replace them. today's EPA controlled diesel fuel doesn't have the lubrication properties of the old fuels therefore you are not getting the lubricants that keeps the fuel injector tips clean. That is where the additives come in they add the needed lubricants as well as up the cetane number (not by much 3-4 points max) which helps the overall health of the injector tips. The Engine oil additives especially for the Ford 6.0L are needed to help prevent stiction where the oil enters the injector as well as keep the turbo lubricated.

There is a lot of great information on the web as well on this information.

Actually it's filtration of the fuel and water in the fuel. For example Dodge does not use fuel filters that Cummins recommends. Dodge use to be a 10mic and then dropped to a 7mic. Cummins recommends 5mic or better.

Best thing you could do on any pickup is add a inline fuel filter (3micron or better) and water separator. A pump less system that adds no back pressure to the lift pump or a setup that has a built in pump.

If you are having injector issues its because of dirty fuel or its just because they are HEUI injection system(which is a problematic design). Not because of ULSD. There are thousands and thousands of Ford 6.0 running the highway with millions of miles between them without issues that don't use fuel additives.


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[wdk450]

Actually it's filtration of the fuel and water in the fuel. For example Dodge does not use fuel filters that Cummins recommends. Dodge use to be a 10mic and then dropped to a 7mic. Cummins recommends 5mic or better.



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I have been buying my fuel filters from NAPA, as the ones at Auto Zone were physically incorrect on the inner diameter. Do you have any idea on what the micron size is on the NAPA filter?

I just did some net research and found a CumminsDieselForum, that said that the high efficiency NAPA filters are 7 microns, and the Mopar filters are 35 microns.

My truck has an inline filter next to the engine, with the fuel pump in the fuel tank. I believe this was a recall upgrade by Dodge (the fuel pump USED to be next to the engine too, according to the owner's manual).

 

[mattpopp]

I have been buying my fuel filters from NAPA, as the ones at Auto Zone were physically incorrect on the inner diameter. Do you have any idea on what the micron size is on the NAPA filter?

I just did some net research and found a CumminsDieselForum, that said that the high efficiency NAPA filters are 7 microns, and the Mopar filters are 35 microns.

My truck has an inline filter next to the engine, with the fuel pump in the fuel tank. I believe this was a recall upgrade by Dodge (the fuel pump USED to be next to the engine too, according to the owner's manual).

Napa filters are WIX's. not really a fan of them. The Mopar filters that you buy for any Dodge/Cummins pickup is a Fleetgaurd. All of the Mopar fuel filters for the CTD 6.7 is 7 microns. I can't remember if they improved the 5.9 drop in fuel filter. It use to be 10 micron.

All of the Dodge Common Rail engines have the lift pump in the fuel tank. The 24v VP Dodges I believe also had the fuel pump in the tanks. Everything from 1998.5 and earlier had the fuel pump on the side of the engine.

The fuel filters are on the side of the engine like you said but in 07 they changed to a spin on cartridge.

But for filters I only bought Mopar, Fleetgaurd, or Baldwin for my old Dodge. A good quality filter is as equally important as all of the maintenance needed on our pickups.

The diesel mechanic I use has only seen one common factor on all blown Diesel engines that come to his shop. Cheap oil filters.

Best solution for fuel filtration is dropping the coin on a FASS 150 Fuel Filter/Water Separator. They cost about $700. Both filters on the unit can be bought from FleetG or Baldwin. They use a generic Filter and Separator. You can get in 2 or 3 micron. But this setup will get rid of the in tank lift pump.

Though if you just want the filters while using the stock lift pump. This is the route to go.
http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=FW1220-TFK

You just have to tap into the fuel line on the frame rail between your fuel tank and engine. Bolt this setup on the frame.





I haven't done this on my Ford as I am worried that Ford will use the added parts as to void my warranty. In the event of needing it.


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[lwmcguir]

Napa filters are WIX's. not really a fan of them. The Mopar filters that you buy for any Dodge/Cummins pickup is a Fleetgaurd. All of the Mopar fuel filters for the CTD 6.7 is 7 microns. I can't remember if they improved the 5.9 drop in fuel filter. It use to be 10 micron.

All of the Dodge Common Rail engines have the lift pump in the fuel tank. The 24v VP Dodges I believe also had the fuel pump in the tanks. Everything from 1998.5 and earlier had the fuel pump on the side of the engine.

The fuel filters are on the side of the engine like you said but in 07 they changed to a spin on cartridge.

But for filters I only bought Mopar, Fleetgaurd, or Baldwin for my old Dodge. A good quality filter is as equally important as all of the maintenance needed on our pickups.

The diesel mechanic I use has only seen one common factor on all blown Diesel engines that come to his shop. Cheap oil filters.

Best solution for fuel filtration is dropping the coin on a FASS 150 Fuel Filter/Water Separator. They cost about $700. Both filters on the unit can be bought from FleetG or Baldwin. They use a generic Filter and Separator. You can get in 2 or 3 micron. But this setup will get rid of the in tank lift pump.

Though if you just want the filters while using the stock lift pump. This is the route to go.
http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=FW1220-TFK

You just have to tap into the fuel line on the frame rail between your fuel tank and engine. Bolt this setup on the frame.





I haven't done this on my Ford as I am worried that Ford will use the added parts as to void my warranty. In the event of needing it.


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Good information. Regarding Ford 2011 and up, the filter/water separator seems to do a great job. The issue for me is the price which is over ......$50 at the discounters. So with our highest mileage truck over 100K now we need to lower the filter cost somehow. The air filter cost dropped dramatically with the 6.7 but the fuel filter cost went up by quite a bit.

 

[lwmcguir]

Regarding the use of the additive. To me it is simple. The manufacturer recommends it for the 6.7 so I use it.

We do the same until the warranty runs out. Never used any in the 6.9, 7.3, 6.0 engines for all those years. Keeping the fuel filter changed around the 15k range and hoping/trying to keep the fuel clean is certainly part of the equation. We never purchase fuel at anyplace but name brand stations, never a discounter. Fuel may be the same but they way it if filtered or handled may vary a lot.

 

[caissiel]

On my GMs. Before Duramax I changed the fuel filter when the fuel pressure dropped. Just installed the fuel pressure gauge last year on my 6.0L Ford and keeping a close watch on the fuel pressure. Not sure when the fuel filter will be changed. The last one lasted 3 years or 25k miles. Replace due to bad tank of fuel with water. Fuel pressure was still normal.

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[lwmcguir]

On my GMs. Before Duramax I changed the fuel filter when the fuel pressure dropped. Just installed the fuel pressure gauge last year on my 6.0L Ford and keeping a close watch on the fuel pressure. Not sure when the fuel filter will be changed. The last one lasted 3 years or 25k miles. Replace due to bad tank of fuel with water. Fuel pressure was still normal.

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A differential pressure alarm for the fuel pressure would be a nice factory add on. some of our tractors do have this. Save a lot of money on fuel filters that don't need to be changed. Had a fuel filter fail prematurely on a new JD skid steer last year. Got it out and it was made in Russia. That was a first for me.

 

[mzcummins]

All of the Dodge Common Rail engines have the lift pump in the fuel tank. The 24v VP Dodges I believe also had the fuel pump in the tanks. Everything from 1998.5 and earlier had the fuel pump on the side of the engine.


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This is not true

All VP trucks had the fuel pump mounted on the engine from the factory And the first years of the common rail (03-04.5)

Dodge did not have a intank pump until 05

Dodge started retrofitting the intank pumps in the earlier Cummins to fix the pump problems

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[danemayer]

Hi mzcummins,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum. There's lots of useful information here along with a great bunch of people.

Thanks for contributing to a lively discussion.

 

[wdk450]

I can not and will not believe that 1to 4 once of any additive will do much for 25 to 35 gallions of fuel

If this is true, I can't figure why an additive manufacturer would spec using LESS than what is really needed to do the job, and sell less of their product.

 

[mattpopp]

This is not true

All VP trucks had the fuel pump mounted on the engine from the factory And the first years of the common rail (03-04.5)

Dodge did not have a intank pump until 05

Dodge started retrofitting the intank pumps in the earlier Cummins to fix the pump problems

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I guess my 04 was a odd ball being that the lift pump was in the tank.... And yes it was a 550ftlb engine as it wasn't the 610. I wasn't sure about the VP pickups as I used the would believe.


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[mzcummins]

Hi mzcummins,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum. There's lots of useful information here along with a great bunch of people.

Thanks for contributing to a lively discussion.

Thank you

Been reading for days, lots of info and a great forum

No problem, just figured i would clear up the confusion on the intank pump and should add that some states like MN have mandated B5 (5% biodiesel) and soon will be going to B10, the bio fuel brings back the lubrication for the fuel system of the old LSD of yesteryear and therefore fuel additive is not needed.

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[mzcummins]

I guess my 04 was a odd ball being that the lift pump was in the tank.... And yes it was a 550ftlb engine as it wasn't the 610. I wasn't sure about the VP pickups as I used the would believe.


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Assuming you bought it brand new and the dealer never did the retrofit intank pump then yes it's an odd ball and a very rare occurrence

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[lwmcguir]

If this is true, I can't figure why an additive manufacturer would spec using LESS than what is really needed to do the job, and sell less of their product.

Additives that are truly chemical products such as dispersant, cloud dispersants, emulsifiers, polymers, anti-scalants and so on can work at very low ppm feed rates. Very similar to taking medicine.