GMC to RAM

danemayer

Well-known member
Over the past few weeks we've had some amazing experiences with truck dealers. The day we sold our house our 2011 GMC died in traffic. The dealer took a full week to diagnose the problem which was the high-pressure fuel injection pump self-destructing. From what I've read, there is a part in the pump that rotates at high speed. When it fails, metal shavings contaminate the downstream parts, all the way to the injectors. At the end of week 2, they still didn't have all of the 45 parts that had been ordered and still were unable to project when the truck would be repaired. I know people complain that this type of situation is routine with RVs, but in 39 years of buying 13 new cars and trucks, I've never, ever, ever experienced anything like this.

Along the way I spoke with 3 different reps at the GMC Customer Assistance line. Each one promised to do something and call me back. None of the 3 did anything and none called back. The 4th call was to GMC Executive Headquarters. That person did call back, but did nothing except talk to the dealer. She then promised to do something else and call back. She never did. So zero help from GMC except that under the warranty, they did pay for the tow and the rental car.

As I researched this problem, I discovered that it's well known and there's even a GMC Service Bulletin about it. The dealer told us a couple of times that had we been out of warranty, the repair is so extensive and complicated that it would probably cost between $12,000 and $15,000. Ford apparently uses the same High Pressure Fuel Injection Pump and is apparently having the same problem, more frequently, but is reportedly not covering it under warranty - calling it a fuel contamination issue. RAM seems to be having fewer problems in this area. Not sure if they're using the same part.

Anyway, we're now driving a 2014 RAM 3500. The dealer purchase experience was horrendous and the deal actually fell apart late in the game. The sales manager gave us our GMC title back and told us the deal was off. They were obviously counting on us folding because we had already been stranded for 2 weeks and wanted to get to Colorado. We left the dealership and the salesman called 20 minutes later to get us back.

It's been a very trying 2 1/2 weeks and we're glad to be in Colorado.

Prior to the RAM, I've bought 7 new Toyotas, 3 new Fords, 1 new Honda, 1 new Kia, and 1 new GMC. Based on my experience, if Toyota had a 1 Ton Diesel truck, that's what I'd be driving today.
 

kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
Dan...so sorry for what you went thru...but I'm confused. Why wasn't the injector pump covered under the 100K powertrain warranty?
 

JanAndBill

Well-known member
Over my vehicle history, I've owned 5 new personal GMC products and many commercial vehicles. They all had their unique share of problems, and at times the warranty process was less than satisfactory. Anyone remember the failing intake manifold gaskets caused by GM antifreeze? I feel for anyone stranded in that type of situation, we've been there. I'm not quite sure why the injector pumps fail, other than they all seem to be failures related to the extreme tolerances of the parts. Any contamination of the fuel, grit, water will destroy them, forcing you to disassemble and clean and/or replace the entire fuel system. Since it was just announced that Toyota and Nissan will be offering the new Cummins 5.0 diesel in 2015, I can't help but wonder if there will be a 1 ton version on the horizon.
 

porthole

Retired
The big three as well as several foreign vehicles are using the bosch high pressure pump.

The pumps require a spec'd minimum "lubricity" of the fuel. Which is not availbe in this country.

The pump has ZERO tolerance for water. Keeping water out seems to be a challenge for all of the manufacturers.

VW seemed to have been victim before the 3 domestic trucks.
Ram, Ford and GM are susceptible to the pump failure. When the pump fails it sends "shrapnel" throughout the fuel system, which is why repairs are so costly. Every single item in the fuel system has to be replaced from the fuel tank out and back.

There is not a lot of chatter on the forums with GM and Ram as for the most part they have been covering the repairs. Ford on the other hand has a reputation of denying warrantee.

We have a Heartland member here, life long Ford owners and family member employed by Ford, who were victims of the pump and the cost involved to repair.

Dan, your the second HL'r this week to get a new Ram from a SOB.
 

sengli

Well-known member
Yikes! I also have a 2011 silverado 3500HD diesel. How many miles were on yours when it croaked?
 

scottyb

Well-known member
The big three as well as several foreign vehicles are using the bosch high pressure pump.

I had read the same thing.

The pumps require a spec'd minimum "lubricity" of the fuel. Which is not availbe in this country.
There is not a lot of chatter on the forums with GM and Ram as for the most part they have been covering the repairs. Ford on the other hand has a reputation of denying warrantee.

This is the reason that I use the Ford OEM Cetane booster and fuel conditioner in my truck. Not because I think it does anything significant, but because it creates a paper trail to where I have purchsed their product as a preventative measure. It will be present in any fuel samples taken. I hope it never comes down to it, and I don't know how much of a defense it will be, but it doesn't cost much to try. We also use it in our F550.
 

porthole

Retired
This is the reason that I use the Ford OEM Cetane booster and fuel conditioner in my truck. Not because I think it does anything significant, but because it creates a paper trail to where I have purchsed their product as a preventative measure. It will be present in any fuel samples taken. I hope it never comes down to it, and I don't know how much of a defense it will be, but it doesn't cost much to try. We also use it in our F550.


Same here Scotty. I have always used some type of additive since I started with diesel boats in 91.
I do use the ford branded product. But, in the end, ordering it in quantity to get free shipping yields me an additive that is less expensive then the other aftermarket products.

I get my filters and additives from http://www.dieselfiltersonline.com/Ford-6-7-Liter-Powerstroke-Turbo-Diesel-Truck-Filters.aspx

Buying fuel, lube and air filters and the additives can easily get the bill over $250 foo the free shipping option.


Because of where we live, I order both the standard cetane booster and the anti gel version (about a 4 to 1 ratio).
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Yikes! I also have a 2011 silverado 3500HD diesel. How many miles were on yours when it croaked?

57,815.

The pumps require a spec'd minimum "lubricity" of the fuel. Which is not availble in this country.

The pump has ZERO tolerance for water. Keeping water out seems to be a challenge for all of the manufacturers.
I've read this on several diesel forums. Also that water can be emulsified with the fuel and the filters don't catch it in that case.

Interestingly, some from Canada have pointed out few problems there and that their diesel fuel has to meet different standards.

And while we had a 60 month/100,000 mile warranty covering this, we were already at 48 months and would have been out of warranty way before 100,000 miles.
 

hoefler

Well-known member
It will get worse yet, as they are mandating all fuels to contain renewable fuels, BioDIesel. While Bio is actually better, it tends to be susceptible to holding moisture.
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
I had a problem with a GM product and complained to the BBB in Detroit and got immediate action. READ your warranty and complain, dont talk write. He who has the most paperwork wins. They can lie in voice but not on paper.

Over the past few weeks we've had some amazing experiences with truck dealers. The day we sold our house our 2011 GMC died in traffic. The dealer took a full week to diagnose the problem which was the high-pressure fuel injection pump self-destructing. From what I've read, there is a part in the pump that rotates at high speed. When it fails, metal shavings contaminate the downstream parts, all the way to the injectors. At the end of week 2, they still didn't have all of the 45 parts that had been ordered and still were unable to project when the truck would be repaired. I know people complain that this type of situation is routine with RVs, but in 39 years of buying 13 new cars and trucks, I've never, ever, ever experienced anything like this.

Along the way I spoke with 3 different reps at the GMC Customer Assistance line. Each one promised to do something and call me back. None of the 3 did anything and none called back. The 4th call was to GMC Executive Headquarters. That person did call back, but did nothing except talk to the dealer. She then promised to do something else and call back. She never did. So zero help from GMC except that under the warranty, they did pay for the tow and the rental car.

As I researched this problem, I discovered that it's well known and there's even a GMC Service Bulletin about it. The dealer told us a couple of times that had we been out of warranty, the repair is so extensive and complicated that it would probably cost between $12,000 and $15,000. Ford apparently uses the same High Pressure Fuel Injection Pump and is apparently having the same problem, more frequently, but is reportedly not covering it under warranty - calling it a fuel contamination issue. RAM seems to be having fewer problems in this area. Not sure if they're using the same part.

Anyway, we're now driving a 2014 RAM 3500. The dealer purchase experience was horrendous and the deal actually fell apart late in the game. The sales manager gave us our GMC title back and told us the deal was off. They were obviously counting on us folding because we had already been stranded for 2 weeks and wanted to get to Colorado. We left the dealership and the salesman called 20 minutes later to get us back.

It's been a very trying 2 1/2 weeks and we're glad to be in Colorado.

Prior to the RAM, I've bought 7 new Toyotas, 3 new Fords, 1 new Honda, 1 new Kia, and 1 new GMC. Based on my experience, if Toyota had a 1 Ton Diesel truck, that's what I'd be driving today.
 

mobilcastle

Well-known member
Dan,
Sorry to hear that the dealer was a pain. It seems to me if you are spending big$$$ on a truck they are trying to sell they would treat customers better. I have read that the big 3 are using similar pumps but I am not sure what Bosh model it is. I also wander out of 1000 trucks sold what is the number that fail due this pump issue. It also seems to me with all the semis on the road they could build a truck that is bullet proof. I really like my truck and I am going to keep it. I do hope no one else on this forum has this happen to them. Good luck with your new truck-post some pictures!!
 

danemayer

Well-known member
I also hope it doesn't happen to anyone else, especially while towing. When the engine quit, power steering and power brakes went out. Fortunately I wasn't towing at the time and traffic was only moderately heavy.

It makes me wonder whether the integrated trailer brake controller has any dependency on the engine running. Hopefully not.
 

Westwind

Well-known member
I know one thing, no matter what brand diesel truck I replace my 2008 GMC Sierra D/A with there will be an extended warranty. I don't think we can afford to not have one these days. A car/truck is a complicated piece of electronic/mechanical piece of machinery, too complicated, it doesn't take much for repairs to get into the $1,000.
 

tmcran

Well-known member
I know one thing, no matter what brand diesel truck I replace my 2008 GMC Sierra D/A with there will be an extended warranty. I don't think we can afford to not have one these days. A car/truck is a complicated piece of electronic/mechanical piece of machinery, too complicated, it doesn't take much for repairs to get into the $1,000.

Be sure to get the company warranty. The others are mostly useless. I know from experience. Also I have bought the GM warranty and have not used either. Both now used up due to mileage exceeding the extended warranty. Not sure I will get another factory warranty. But to each his own.
 

mobilcastle

Well-known member
Even then you can still have a problem. I have nothing against Dodge
I read where they tried to say you had bought bad fuel trying
 

brianharrison

Well-known member
I've read this on several diesel forums. Also that water can be emulsified with the fuel and the filters don't catch it in that case.

Interestingly, some from Canada have pointed out few problems there and that their diesel fuel has to meet different standards.

This is correct, the diesel fuel standard for Canada has a higher spec for lubricity than the diesel fuel standard for the US. That being said, neither country regulates to the standard and simply relies on manufacturers to meet the standard. I found one report lately that tested actual purchased diesel and found lubricity in the US similar to that of Canada - this was a report done by Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (AAM) with 150 data points from 2008. Not sure of the credibility of the source.

In any event, I add a lubricity and de-emulsifier additive (Stanadyne Lubricity formula) whenever I travel to US or fill up with Biodiesel (water emulsification). I am unsure if the Ford OEM additive mentioned above has a de-emulsifier.

Brian
 

Nabo

Southeast Region Director-Retired
OK Dan - after a couple of weeks under your belt with the new Ram, tell us what you like and dislike from your GMC. We have a new 2014 3500 Ram (only 3 months old) and having several problems. First of all we couldn't balance the wheels. Took it to our regular tire guy who thought he had everything balance but it still shimmy and shaked. Went back to the Chrysler dealership for their opinion and guess what they couldn't balance them either. Ended up with Chrysler replacing all 6 tires because they said the tires (Generals) were badly flat-spotted. Now the truck is back at the dealership for the 4 time because of the check engine light. Got a call today that they are going to replace the computer brain cuz they can't get the light to go out. Diagnostic checked out fine so it doesn't seem to be a major problem, just that the engine light wont stay off. We have had Dodge/Ram trucks since the 60's haven't had this kind of problems with a new truck. At least Chrysler is backing their warranty stuff.
 
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