has anyone else noticed light switches are not where expected and unlabeled?

[Equalizer]

I have a new Torque 396. Besides one switch on one side of the couch and one switch next to the range, ALL other light switches are inside a cabinet under the TV area (and many are on an inner side wall of a nook in there). Besides that, they are not labeled (only slide switches are labeled).

But, when I look at manufacturer site photos and video stills on Youtube of another unit (same model, one year ago) - there are several switches spread across BOTH sides of the main couch slide out. Also, all other switches near front appear to be nicely labeled.

https://youtu.be/NMHdckT9hlY?t=234

https://youtu.be/NMHdckT9hlY?t=250

I know Torque 396 is no longer being produced after the '18 model year (I got the last one). Does someone on the assembly line basically decide "hey fellas - on this one, just run all the lighting to here, we'll get away with putting the switches all which ways inside this cabinet and don't worry about labeling them"? Why would they otherwise downgrade the same floorplan to not have light switches labeled and places where useful?

Has anyone else noticed their light switches are nowhere expected and unlabeled?

Another pet peeve is that many of the lights have switches on them - but they are just 1/16" plastic tips that one is supposed to press (while the light is blinding you as you try to find it). A few of mine came broken already, I doubt that plastic push switch will last long on any of them.

Wondering if someone took a shortcut they shouldn't have, and I might be able to get this "fixed", or if we just get stuck with however they decided to wire it that day.

 

[PondSkum]

I've wondered about the location of our switches and stuff also. Only a select few were labeled. For the most part, they are all located in 2 general locations that aren't too out of whack, but still not sure why they aren't all in the same location. And I got fed up with flipping the wrong switches trying to remember which one was for which light/bunk/awning, so I labeled them myself. That being said, the "main" control panel, with the switches for generator, water pump, water heater, etc, is so "disorganized" it's crazy. There's a black switch cover with a red switch for the tank heaters. There's a white switch and cover for the A/C selector switch, there's all different size and style switches for the lights and pumps and awnings. Like they just threw whatever they had left over in there.

 

[Equalizer]

Yeah, I think they change it up each build, because the video I saw of an actual unit for sale had the switches arranged much better. For mine, I don't mind labeling, but what really irks me is the switches are sideways inside the cabinet - so you can't even label them, because you have to reach in and toggle them on the right - and get this, three switches are going up and down, and the other two are front and back! (so, pretty hard to remember, and difficult to know which is on vs off even with the different orientations)

I wonder if the booming state of the RV sales business is actually bad for build quality too; I noticed starting a month ago Heartland has an ad on their site stating they are looking for laborers, NO experience required, anyone welcome. Plus a rep told me they stopped doing any customizations earlier this year (can no longer even switch out couch for chair and tables, for example). I've said my piece in my other threads (I think you responded there too, thanks again)... thanks for commiserating with me.

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Oh, and the humorous thing they forget to label - both sets of dump valves! Same colored handles, and one set is left and right, the other is top and bottom.

 

[PondSkum]

Yeah, I think they change it up each build, because the video I saw of an actual unit for sale had the switches arranged much better. For mine, I don't mind labeling, but what really irks me is the switches are sideways inside the cabinet - so you can't even label them, because you have to reach in and toggle them on the right - and get this, three switches are going up and down, and the other two are front and back! (so, pretty hard to remember, and difficult to know which is on vs off even with the different orientations)

I wonder if the booming state of the RV sales business is actually bad for build quality too; I noticed starting a month ago Heartland has an ad on their site stating they are looking for laborers, NO experience required, anyone welcome. Plus a rep told me they stopped doing any customizations earlier this year (can no longer even switch out couch for chair and tables, for example). I've said my piece in my other threads (I think you responded there too, thanks again)... thanks for commiserating with me.

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Oh, and the humorous thing they forget to label - both sets of dump valves! Same colored handles, and one set is left and right, the other is top and bottom.

My dump valves are labeled, on the outside of the door that they are behind, but the labels are top to bottom, and the valves are left to right.... and they aren't even listed in the correct order.. I think it's labeled from top to bottom; black, gray #1, gray #2.. but in reality, from left to right, the valves are gray #1, black, gray #2...

 

[gotfooled]

POOR DESIGN, POOR TESTING. The function of every item...ie, switches, doors, cabinet knobs, etc.....need to be functionality tested by actual users....not the designers or builders. Namely, daily use switches need to be where they are easily reached.....not in a cabinet that is hard to open. Cabinet hardware is terrible. Sharp corners. Rapid build schedules are producing high profits and low quality.

 

[Equalizer]

POOR DESIGN, POOR TESTING. The function of every item...ie, switches, doors, cabinet knobs, etc.....need to be functionality tested by actual users....not the designers or builders. Namely, daily use switches need to be where they are easily reached.....not in a cabinet that is hard to open. Cabinet hardware is terrible. Sharp corners. Rapid build schedules are producing high profits and low quality.

Hehe, you got those razor sharp handles as a 'feature' too? Saw your other threads just now - consider yourself lucky that you didn't get bait and switched, for my unit doesn't even have the massage/heat feature that is so prominently advertised on all their materials; JUST the LED light for the cupholder.

My latest complaint is that the 0-100 testing fails on the low end. Anything below 25 degrees outside, and all water lines but the main bathroom FREEZE, both hot and cold. This is with furnace turned way up all day and night, blasting. Water does not start flowing to those areas (rear bath and kitchen) until outside temperatures reach high 30s for most of the day again. Went for three weeks without water just recently due to this failure on their part. Probably lack of proper insulation, or the junk they use for insulation is useless. Wasn't even windy outside.

 

[gotfooled]

When facing the cabinet that contains the switches, the LR slideouts are to your left, the BR slideout is to your right. WHY would you install the slideout switches so that they are LR on the right and BR on the left? No labels, either. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. Try getting the slideouts to work after a power outage and the battery has died. This is the first time you have had to operate the slideouts, since it was delivered and set up by the dealer........so much for the delivery run through process, also. This is small stuff that gives the RV industry a bad rap. QUALITY....QUALITY...QUALITY.

 

[danemayer]

My latest complaint is that the 0-100 testing fails on the low end. Anything below 25 degrees outside, and all water lines but the main bathroom FREEZE, both hot and cold. This is with furnace turned way up all day and night, blasting. Water does not start flowing to those areas (rear bath and kitchen) until outside temperatures reach high 30s for most of the day again. Went for three weeks without water just recently due to this failure on their part. Probably lack of proper insulation, or the junk they use for insulation is useless. Wasn't even windy outside.

The "Comfort Tested" statement is described in Heartland literature as the ability to maintain a comfortable interior temperature. It doesn't say anything about the water system, although many people make that assumption. Many people who camp in extreme cold don't bother with the water system at all - they dry camp.

My experience through 6 winters in the Colorado mountains during ski season is that this applies pretty equally to every brand of travel trailer and fifth wheel as well as motor homes costing many times the price of anything Heartland sells. If you don't take extra measures in sub-freezing weather, things do freeze and sometimes they break. One trailer might do 5 degrees better than the next, but they will all freeze until you get to the $1-2 Million price point. Prevost's straight out of the factory seem to work in extreme cold along with a few others in that class.

If you want to have running water in sub-freezing temps, I'd suggest you take a look at our owner-written Water Systems Winter Usage Guide.

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When facing the cabinet that contains the switches, the LR slideouts are to your left, the BR slideout is to your right. WHY would you install the slideout switches so that they are LR on the right and BR on the left? No labels, either. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. Try getting the slideouts to work after a power outage and the battery has died. This is the first time you have had to operate the slideouts, since it was delivered and set up by the dealer........so much for the delivery run through process, also. This is small stuff that gives the RV industry a bad rap. QUALITY....QUALITY...QUALITY.

Is it possible someone else might like them the way they are? And even if 100% of people would agree with you on placement preference, why is it rocket science to operate the switches the way they are? After a few times, aren't you going to get used to it?

Yes, you need a battery charge to operate slideouts. If the trailer was delivered to you with a dead battery, shame on the dealer. That's not a design issue.

 

[gotfooled]

The "Comfort Tested" statement is described in Heartland literature as the ability to maintain a comfortable interior temperature. It doesn't say anything about the water system, although many people make that assumption. Many people who camp in extreme cold don't bother with the water system at all - they dry camp.

My experience through 6 winters in the Colorado mountains during ski season is that this applies pretty equally to every brand of travel trailer and fifth wheel as well as motor homes costing many times the price of anything Heartland sells. If you don't take extra measures in sub-freezing weather, things do freeze and sometimes they break. One trailer might do 5 degrees better than the next, but they will all freeze until you get to the $1-2 Million price point. Prevost's straight out of the factory seem to work in extreme cold along with a few others in that class.

If you want to have running water in sub-freezing temps, I'd suggest you take a look at our owner-written Water Systems Winter Usage Guide.

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Is it possible someone else might like them the way they are? And even if 100% of people would agree with you on placement preference, why is it rocket science to operate the switches the way they are? After a few times, aren't you going to get used to it?

Yes, you need a battery charge to operate slideouts. If the trailer was delivered to you with a dead battery, shame on the dealer. That's not a design issue.

You are right. A deranged person might like them backwards....engineers do not. Never used them since the unit was delivered and set up, two weeks before the hurricane arrived. Next time, i'll have the hurricane re=directed somewhere else.

 

[Equalizer]

The "Comfort Tested" statement is described in Heartland literature as the ability to maintain a comfortable interior temperature. It doesn't say anything about the water system, although many people make that assumption. Many people who camp in extreme cold don't bother with the water system at all - they dry camp.

My experience through 6 winters in the Colorado mountains during ski season is that this applies pretty equally to every brand of travel trailer and fifth wheel as well as motor homes costing many times the price of anything Heartland sells. If you don't take extra measures in sub-freezing weather, things do freeze and sometimes they break. One trailer might do 5 degrees better than the next, but they will all freeze until you get to the $1-2 Million price point. Prevost's straight out of the factory seem to work in extreme cold along with a few others in that class.

If you want to have running water in sub-freezing temps, I'd suggest you take a look at our owner-written Water Systems Winter Usage Guide.

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Oh yeah? So why all the advertisements and videos showing that they maintain above freezing temps in all compartments and water areas with their "superior" technology and testing? My HitchHiker can go to -10 (lowest I've ever tested, sure it can go lower) with nothing freezing as long as furnace is on. Had my Lance camper down to -25 once. I would consider freezing water lines at 25-28 degrees a pretty big fail on Heartland's part.

I will add - it doesn't take much to keep stuff from freezing - just make sure the hot air actually gets around the basement as advertised. Apparently Heartland doesn't do this because I would say 80% of the heat goes to the bathroom, whereas the amount of air coming out the rear living room register and the rear garage register is almost too small to even detect (won't even bend a piece of paper).

 

[Shortest Straw]

Oh yeah? So why all the advertisements and videos showing that they maintain above freezing temps in all compartments and water areas with their "superior" technology and testing? My HitchHiker can go to -10 (lowest I've ever tested, sure it can go lower) with nothing freezing as long as furnace is on. Had my Lance camper down to -25 once. I would consider freezing water lines at 25-28 degrees a pretty big fail on Heartland's part.

I will add - it doesn't take much to keep stuff from freezing - just make sure the hot air actually gets around the basement as advertised. Apparently Heartland doesn't do this because I would say 80% of the heat goes to the bathroom, whereas the amount of air coming out the rear living room register and the rear garage register is almost too small to even detect (won't even bend a piece of paper).

Why does it surprise you that the heat on a longer vent run is less than the heat you are receiving from a shorter run? It is quite simple to divert heat flow if you are willing to spend the time.

 

[Equalizer]

I believe the duct work is not routed efficiently. There is barely enough air from the front registers. Even sealing off the front does not increase the rear. That is all besides the point though... I think there is just no efficient air routing going to the basement at all. Obviously I am not going to tear off the whole basement to satisfy this Internet argument. It is BS that Heartland touts all this heated and enclosed underbelly nonsense. And regarding "comfortable temperature" - I would say a minimum of 70 is comfortable. Thermometer set on kitchen counter will not go above 65 with furnace only and garage door closed on a < 30 degree day. Even with two electric heaters running it will barely get to 70.5 degrees.

Regardless of all that - why should I have to tear into the furnace ductwork to "fix" it? Not that it is fixable. I am sure they forgot to plumb something or if there is a vent line going down there, it's probably terminated in the insulation. Inability to keep something from freezing when it's only 28 degrees outside would indicate to me that the water line must be sitting right on the basement pan, basically the same as a cheap travel trailer with no basement (heck at least in that case you know what to expect and can see to rectify the situation - instead of being stuck with a "heated and enclosed" underbelly that only lives up to the latter part of that description).

Overall, it is wrong of Heartland to advertise these as four season toy haulers when they are not.

I am done defending bad build quality and practices. "gotfooled"'s username describes what I am sure many buyers feel but are too ashamed to admit. We all GOT FOOLED. Just glad I didn't spend any extra on the "luxury" lines. If I didn't need a garage or if I could find an older Excel or similar with garage, I'd have avoided this for sure.

I mean, back to the original post I made in here - how do they get by with showing light switches in convenient places on web site photos and even demo model walk throughs, but then have the gall to deliver it to me with all the switches hidden away on a plane that is not even visible from outside the cabinet (i.e., the side wall of the cabinet, only accessible by "feel")?

How did they get by with leaving a 1/4" gap on two sides of the bathroom door pull?

Why did they feel the need to change the doors out from a nice full length window to a small portal, with a built-in cheap plastic shade that, guess what, you can't open because the screen door is in the way (i.e., you have to open BOTH doors, go outside, then open the shade, then go back in and close them... REAL useful for when you want privacy but want to see who is at the door... "oh hey you - go stand over there, cover your eyes, wait 20 seconds, then come back and knock again" - yeah, right).

I can guarantee you 100% that if I were to deviate on any of the work I do for clients, I'd be dropped pretty quickly if I decided to, oh, just change this and that from what I showed them as a demo or discussed as being how their software would function. I don't get to tell clients "well, I wasn't feeling too good, and I kinda forgot what YOU wanted, so I did what I felt was right (read that as, whatever the heck happened to come out)".

 

[Shortest Straw]

There are a bunch of good people on these forums willing to assist you with ideas to assure you will enjoy RVing with the rig of your choice. Take me for instance, I have, for about 30 bucks and a couple of hours of my time, rerouted heat to make it more efficient throughout the coach. I see no reason to share that info with you due to your prior comments. Some of your other complaints are invalid as you did a walk through and signed the paperwork to buy your rig. We would love a three way switch on ours to control the living room lights. But we do not and we pulled our rig off of the lot. You had every opportunity to say no, this is not what I expected. I hope that you can get on with enjoying your purchase instead of hating it for the few minor items you have issue with. Good day sir.

 

[Equalizer]

I've already put days of time into fixing things, don't worry.

Not everyone has the luxury of a walkthrough. Some of us actually believe in the product we're being sold and have to order based on availability. The toy haulers are not in stock in many places, unlike the more traditional floor plans such as yours. So other than making sure the slides and generator worked when the delivery boy dropped it off, nope. Down payment and loan docs all had to be signed and delivered long before that. Trust me, I sobbed inside when I saw how awful the molding work was and all the trim staples left behind within one minute of stepping inside.

And I doubt you tested the heating system for results in both sub 32 degree temperatures and +80 degree temperatures before signing your paperwork. Pretty sure you had to trust it would "just work", right? Right.

Maybe you have time to spend fixing things and enjoy spending time like that, kudos to you. Enjoy your kool-aid. Just don't shove it down everyone else's throats and end up fooling would-be owners into thinking Heartland is a superior product, for it ain't.

 

[gotfooled]

There are a bunch of good people on these forums willing to assist you with ideas to assure you will enjoy RVing with the rig of your choice. Take me for instance, I have, for about 30 bucks and a couple of hours of my time, rerouted heat to make it more efficient throughout the coach. I see no reason to share that info with you due to your prior comments. Some of your other complaints are invalid as you did a walk through and signed the paperwork to buy your rig. We would love a three way switch on ours to control the living room lights. But we do not and we pulled our rig off of the lot. You had every opportunity to say no, this is not what I expected. I hope that you can get on with enjoying your purchase instead of hating it for the few minor items you have issue with. Good day sir.

TRY THIS ON FOR SIZE. HEAT issues.......change the bathroom register to an adjustable one from Lowes ($8.00). Unfortunately there is a large register on the face of the second step that blows directly on the thermostat thereby "faking" it out, shutting it down. The A/C has a similar problem.....the LR thermostat is affected by the BR A/C because cold air flows out of the BR, down the steps and "fakes" out the LR thermostat, shutting it down. Not to mention that the sun comes through the door window, also affecting the thermostat. There isn't a cabinet that I can easily see into to find something. I have flashlights everywhere. The 4 cabinets over the couch are so high that I need a step ladder. Looks beautiful, doesn't function at all. Big windows reduce wall space for cabinets. Its just a matter of designing it then functionally testing it to see if it works. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????????