Heartland = Quality??

[CliffP]

Sounds like all is well! Enjoy your first weekend with the family in your new Greystone!

 

[danemayer]

Heartland was supposed to overnight the water tank on Friday, but instead sent it with standard shipping.

Gotlieb,

Let me see if I can summarize.

You paid in advance before even seeing the trailer. The dealer is 600 miles away from you. They promised delivery today, Monday. Friday they call to tell you there's a problem with a hole drilled through the floor into the water tank and promise to get a new tank by overnight delivery, delaying delivery to Wednesday. Monday they call you back to tell you Heartland shipped standard and the tank will arrive late in the week. You have campground reservations for this weekend so the dealer is going to apply a temp fix. Presumably you'll drive 10 hours sometime this week, pick up the trailer, and go camping, then home. The water tank will somehow get forwarded to you or a nearby dealer for installation at some point in the future.

Let me offer some suggestions.

1. Cancel your camping plans even if you lose some money.
2. Wait for the selling dealer to replace the tank.
3. Pick up the unit, do a very detailed PDI/walkthrough with the dealer, and stay at or near the dealer for at least 2 days trying out everything in the trailer to find anything that needs adjustment, replacement or correction. Even though the dealer may have done a good prep, you'll likely find a few more things that may need adjustment or tweaking, or explanation. Don't sign the acceptance paperwork until you're sure everything is fixed.

Btw, when we bought our Landmark, we had a three day drive to the selling dealer and they got paid after we got there.

 

[CliffP]

After a little more thought I'd take Dan's advice. Don't take it till it's all right and passes your PDI. It may not be very easy to find another dealer that will take care of you.
The campground may still give you a refund or credit you. If not that is a small price to pay.

 

[gotlieb]

Dan, you are essentially right. Except, the dealer hasn't gotten any of my money yet. And we aren't driving to pick it up, they are delivering it to our house. So, I'm not spending any extra money by getting it early other than having to take it to a local Heartland dealership to get the tank installed. There is one about 20 miles from our house, so not a big deal there as long as the bill gets sent to Heartland.

It's a new camper, so I would hope there isn't too much wrong with it. I would never buy a used one without seeing it firsthand. I will do a walkthrough after it gets delivered, but I doubt the delivery driver is going to wait around for 2 days while I inspect it. So, either way, if my inspection finds something the dealership missed, I am in the same boat regardless of when I get it. I might as well get it and use it right away, which might be the fastest way to find any more problems.

The kid won't be happy if we had to cancel the trip this weekend. We've gone the whole summer without a camper and she's been looking forward to this for weeks. I guess I'll take the chance to make her happy.

 

[danemayer]

You're right that the driver isn't going to wait. His job is to deliver. He's not likely to be the guy to show you how to use the trailer or to fix anything. Sounds like this isn't your first trailer, so you probably have prior experience with RV plumbing and appliance usage. Many times when owners don't go through the dealer instruction/PDI, they have some difficulty. Of course you can always get quick answers on this forum - unless it's 3AM.

One thing to note about dealers. The dealer contracts with RV companies are not like the auto industry. Dealers don't have to work on your trailer if you bought it elsewhere and some won't. Others will just prioritize you low and make you wait. There are some who realize it's a good business practice to build customer relationships for the future and will treat you well. If you're lucky, the guy 20 miles away will be in the last group.

I hope things work out well for your trip this weekend. Have fun.

 

[Bob&Patty]

A quick call to the dealer close to you will verify the "will we work on your trailer" question. RV dealers are not made work on something they did not sell. RV's are not an automobile. If they will not work on it....then call HL and they may put you in touch with an independant RV service center that will that is close to you.

 

[ChopperBill]

Well it all seems screwy to me. Dealer is a long ways a away. Was suppose to be delivered Monday and now it would be Wednesday? Never heard of a dealer getting anything shipped that fast and installed that quick. Let alone I doubt they even filled the tank or found a tank leak that fast in a hole drilled in the top. I think they had something come up and used the story to put you off. Now they had to change their story. Yeah, I lean toward the pessimists but I have seen dealers at work. But on the optimistic side, there was probably nothing wrong with your trailer.

 

[BarneyFife]

One thing to note about dealers. The dealer contracts with RV companies are not like the auto industry. Dealers don't have to work on your trailer if you bought it elsewhere and some won't. Others will just prioritize you low and make you wait. There are some who realize it's a good business practice to build customer relationships for the future and will treat you well. If you're lucky, the guy 20 miles away will be in the last group.

I hope things work out well for your trip this weekend. Have fun.

This is a good point. Unfortunately our closest dealer is indeed the dealer we bought ours through: RV Outlet. 100 miles away. Bill Plemmons RV is a fairly big NC dealer and they have a dealership five miles from my house now. I asked them late last year if they'd honor my warranty work on my Cyclone. They said they wouldn't because Heartland was too difficult to deal with regarding warranty repairs.

If it were me, I'd keep the camping trip planned. This is supposed to be a big deal for the family and its already starting off terrible. No sense in letting it continue on as a letdown. If you keep hitting roadblocks and the trip has to be delayed or cancelled, I would probably cancel the entire deal and just start over with something else.

 

[dave10a]

One thing to note about dealers. The dealer contracts with RV companies are not like the auto industry. Dealers don't have to work on your trailer if you bought it elsewhere and some won't. Others will just prioritize you low and make you wait. There are some who realize it's a good business practice to build customer relationships for the future and will treat you well. If you're lucky, the guy 20 miles away will be in the last group.

I hope things work out well for your trip this weekend. Have fun.

But doesn't Heartland pay those dealers the same or near the rate that any walk-in customer would pay. If so I do not see why a dealer would treat a warranty customer any different than a non-warranty customer. If Heartland does not treat or pay its dealer network well, then a customer should have the option to pay for the service and get reimbursed from Heartland directly.

 

[GOTTOYS]

But doesn't Heartland pay those dealers the same or near the rate that any walk-in customer would pay. If so I do not see why a dealer would treat a warranty customer any different than a non-warranty customer. If Heartland does not treat or pay its dealer network well, then a customer should have the option to pay for the service and get reimbursed from Heartland directly.

Dealers will usually only get paid if they replace a part. If it's an adjustment and requires only labor they often can't collect. They pay their help out of the profit they made when they sold the trailer. If they didn't sell it..no profit. That's one reason non-selling dealers don't like to work on them. Warranty labor is usually less than what customer pay labor is. Often the warranty time allowed for a job is less than the flat rate allowed for the same job as well. I spent many years in the car business...that's how they operate.

 

[danemayer]

I think the seasonal nature of RV usage may be the reason for the general problem of poor dealer turnaround time and the problem where dealers don't want to work on RVs purchased elsewhere. The dealer has to pay an underutilized tech all during the off-season. If he's got 2 techs, that's 2 he has to pay who aren't earning their keep all winter. So he's financially incented to keep the number of techs to the minimum. If there's too much work, he manages it by taking longer to turn the job around. Some dealers don't want to further impact the turnaround time for their loyal customers by taking on work from non-customers.

 

[dave10a]

Dealers will usually only get paid if they replace a part. If it's an adjustment and requires only labor they often can't collect. They pay their help out of the profit they made when they sold the trailer. If they didn't sell it..no profit. That's one reason non-selling dealers don't like to work on them. Warranty labor is usually less than what customer pay labor is. Often the warranty time allowed for a job is less than the flat rate allowed for the same job as well. I spent many years in the car business...that's how they operate.

Well that explanation may or may not be valid. I would like to hear it directly from Heartland. My son who is a Yamaha dealer gets paid by the hour when doing warranty work while Yamaha also provide the parts if necessary. It makes no difference where the customer buys the Yamaha. So I have reason to believe that Heartland does the same..

 

[ChopperBill]

Well that explanation may or may not be valid. I would like to hear it directly from Heartland. My son who is a Yamaha dealer gets paid by the hour when doing warranty work while Yamaha also provide the parts if necessary. It makes no difference where the customer buys the Yamaha. So I have reason to believe that Heartland does the same..

I was the warranty writer for a high volume AG dealer. The majority of manufactures pay off of flat rate on warranty. Believe me we lost a lot of hours on many of those larger warranty claims. We would work on a lot of outside warranties, however, they took a back seat to our customers. Its only natural any dealer would do the same.

 

[gotlieb]

Final Update: GOOD NEWS!!

The camper is in transit today and when I checked with the dealer, they told me that they did the temporary fix yesterday and then the tank arrived late in the day and they were able to get it replaced last night. So, my camper was on the road this morning with everything fixed (I hope) and I should be able to inspect it tonight and start packing it up for the weekend!

Not sure whether the whole thing was made up to stall for time or if there actually was a problem, but at this point, I don't care any more. As long as there are no problems going forward.

Now we'll see how long it takes for them to ask for the down payment. I'm sure they got the money from the bank, but they haven't gotten anything from me yet. And after this whole mess, I'm not in a hurry to call them up and offer a payment.

Thanks Everybody. In a few short hours, I will have my first Heartland sitting in my driveway.

 

[BarneyFife]

That's awesome. I truly hope this weekend goes great for you all.

 

[dave10a]

I was the warranty writer for a high volume AG dealer. The majority of manufactures pay off of flat rate on warranty. Believe me we lost a lot of hours on many of those larger warranty claims. We would work on a lot of outside warranties, however, they took a back seat to our customers. Its only natural any dealer would do the same.

Oh that is just great. But I would like to hear directly from Heartland how they pay for warranty work. One's opinion based on experience with other manufacturers is not the facts. I don't think a manufacturer is serving its customers well to have them treated like second class citizens for warranty work and I am surprised if Heartland is that Heartless--- pun intended We spend a lot of money of these products.

 

[danemayer]

Oh that is just great. But I would like to hear directly from Heartland how they pay for warranty work. One's opinion based on experience with other manufacturers is not the facts. I don't think a manufacturer is serving its customers well to have them treated like second class citizens for warranty work and I am surprised if Heartland is that Heartless--- pun intended We spend a lot of money of these products.

Dave,

Your question implies that you would like Heartland to pay a higher labor rate to dealers for warranty work so that you could get better treatment at dealers where you have no sales relationship. For the purposes of illustration, let me make a totally uninformed assumption that the current warranty labor rate is 1/2 of the retail labor rate. Let's say $50/hr for warranty and $100 for out-of-warranty work.

Now let's imagine that on your type of coach, Heartland figures that on average, they'll have to pay for 4 hours of warranty work. I have no idea whether that's high or low - but let's use it for illustration.

The new labor rate would add to Heartland's warranty cost 4 hours X $50 additional compensation or an additional $200 cost to the trailer.

Who do you think will pay that $200 of extra cost? Would it come out of Heartland profit? Not a chance. Out of dealer sales profit? I don't think so. Out of your pocket? Absolutely!

So you and every buyer would have to pay that extra $200 even if they only get service from the selling dealer. Every buyer would have to pay that extra $200 regardless of whether they even need any warranty work done. Every buyer would pay that extra $200 even if they performed all their own warranty labor.

And of course, the dealers would still be free to give priority treatment to the owners who bought from them, so it might not even fix the problem.

And I've seen enough product business cases to know that $200 in additional cost is not what you'll really pay. Heartland will mark it up and the dealer will mark it up. You could easily end up paying $400-800 for this improvement.

I don't need Heartland to answer this question. I'd like them to pay the lowest labor rate consistent with other manufacturers pay and consistent with what dealers expect.

 

[GOTTOYS]

Dave,

Your question implies that you would like Heartland to pay a higher labor rate to dealers for warranty work so that you could get better treatment at dealers where you have no sales relationship. For the purposes of illustration, let me make a totally uninformed assumption that the current warranty labor rate is 1/2 of the retail labor rate. Let's say $50/hr for warranty and $100 for out-of-warranty work.

Now let's imagine that on your type of coach, Heartland figures that on average, they'll have to pay for 4 hours of warranty work. I have no idea whether that's high or low - but let's use it for illustration.

The new labor rate would add to Heartland's warranty cost 4 hours X $50 additional compensation or an additional $200 cost to the trailer.

Who do you think will pay that $200 of extra cost? Would it come out of Heartland profit? Not a chance. Out of dealer sales profit? I don't think so. Out of your pocket? Absolutely!

So you and every buyer would have to pay that extra $200 even if they only get service from the selling dealer. Every buyer would have to pay that extra $200 regardless of whether they even need any warranty work done. Every buyer would pay that extra $200 even if they performed all their own warranty labor.

And of course, the dealers would still be free to give priority treatment to the owners who bought from them, so it might not even fix the problem.

And I've seen enough product business cases to know that $200 in additional cost is not what you'll really pay. Heartland will mark it up and the dealer will mark it up. You could easily end up paying $400-800 for this improvement.

I don't need Heartland to answer this question. I'd like them to pay the lowest labor rate consistent with other manufacturers pay and consistent with what dealers expect.

Well stated Dan. Can't agree with you more..Don

 

[dave10a]

Dave,

Your question implies that you would like Heartland to pay a higher labor rate to dealers for warranty work so that you could get better treatment at dealers where you have no sales relationship. For the purposes of illustration, let me make a totally uninformed assumption that the current warranty labor rate is 1/2 of the retail labor rate. Let's say $50/hr for warranty and $100 for out-of-warranty work.

Now let's imagine that on your type of coach, Heartland figures that on average, they'll have to pay for 4 hours of warranty work. I have no idea whether that's high or low - but let's use it for illustration.

The new labor rate would add to Heartland's warranty cost 4 hours X $50 additional compensation or an additional $200 cost to the trailer.

Who do you think will pay that $200 of extra cost? Would it come out of Heartland profit? Not a chance. Out of dealer sales profit? I don't think so. Out of your pocket? Absolutely!

So you and every buyer would have to pay that extra $200 even if they only get service from the selling dealer. Every buyer would have to pay that extra $200 regardless of whether they even need any warranty work done. Every buyer would pay that extra $200 even if they performed all their own warranty labor.

And of course, the dealers would still be free to give priority treatment to the owners who bought from them, so it might not even fix the problem.

And I've seen enough product business cases to know that $200 in additional cost is not what you'll really pay. Heartland will mark it up and the dealer will mark it up. You could easily end up paying $400-800 for this improvement.

I don't need Heartland to answer this question. I'd like them to pay the lowest labor rate consistent with other manufacturers pay and consistent with what dealers expect.

I simply would like to know how Heartland pays for warranty work. What is so hard about that question?

 

[Bob&Patty]

Dave10a, HL sets their own labor rates on warranty work. That is to say, they state to a dealer this what we will pay for a certain repair and how much they will pay for the parts or supply the parts. This is no different that car dealers do. Car dealers and RV dealers agree to this in their contract with the manufacturer...period. Now just so you understand.....RV manufacturers CAN NOT make a dealer repair your coach if you DID NOT buy it from them. They are not car, motorcycle, big rig dealers that sign a contract to repair their products no matter where is was purchased. This is just the way it is...no "if's or buts about it".

Chopper Bill as absolutly correct. I worked in all aspects of GM car dealers service departments. GM sets the flat rate on ALL repairs and including how much the parts cost.....PERIOD. Yes, I did not get payed the big bucks for a repair, but it was a fair price. Also the dealer did make money on the parts, though not as much as retail. In my opinion RV dealers charge WAY to much at the "drive" for there repairs. Thats why I do my own. Example, I called my local dealer and asked how much to install my hitch in a different truck. $120.. per hour. $500.00 was the reply.........I did it myself in 2 hours. My Chevy dealer only charges $96.00 per hour and there "aint" no stinking computors or 8 miles of wires in a RV.

Maybe you can go on a campaign to correct the RV dealer problem.... good luck with your quest.

SO, now you know how HL and every other RV manufacturer does it. How do I know this....it's because I asked my HL dealer and Coley Brady (horses mouth) how it works.