Hidden options?

[KiwiRVer]

Re: Hidden Options.

I also have an issue with "hidden options" and with options not available. I asked for (and got) 6 point levelling but it wasn't offered up front. I probably would have selected Goodyear tyres if I had thought about it. The Towmax they are putting on do not seem to have good write ups and we do a lot of miles. I will have to keep a close eye on them. I also asked for the oven to be removed and replaced with a stove top. This was flatly refused with a bunch of spurious reasons. My biggest argument was for fitting of wet bolts or Never-Fail bushings. This also was flatly refused despite the fact that it would cost the factory about $20 and no extra labour to install them. Now I am having to do them myself because on my previous rig the bushings were all gone after only 10k miles and this is a heavier rig.

I have sent an extensive letter to the brand manager at the factory about these and other "issues" I have with their sales process but have not yet had a reply.

 

[Wharton]

Re: Hidden Options.

My impression was if another Heartland product had the option, it might be available as a hidden option. Anything above and beyond that would be "customization" and they are not in that business. If you want a customized rig you go to New Horizons where each rig is a custom design for the customer.

 

[taken]

Re: Hidden Options.

What I don't understand is this. You make profit on every option you sell. Therefor, the more options you sell, the more profit you make. So, why have hidden options that can make you more profit? Put them out there on the order sheet and let people decide. I bet 90% of people would order the tires. The Level Up and 5th Airborne would be less, but they would sell and make Heartland money. The logic of the customer not "needing" these options being the reason they are hidden doesn't fly with me. I would like to decide what I "need." Worse yet, I'm not asking for something that would cost production time or money. Bolt on cheap tires or bolt on good ones. Same time, more profit. Bold on a standard pinbox or bolt on an Airborne. Same time, more profit. Yes the Level Up would take more time, but the profit would be increased relative to that. Bottom line is if these options weren't available at all, I wouldn't be upset. But to find out they were available but were hidden is most irritating. Either offer something or don't, but don't play games like this!!!!

Another thing I was thinking about in regards to the tires. I can buy Maxxis tires for my trailer for $169 each including shipping. So, Heartland could buy them in bulk for what, $100 a piece or less? What do they pay for Towmax? $40-50 a pop? (No pun intended.) So, for a trailer with 4 tires like mine, they are saving $200 or less on a $40k plus trailer on something that is a hot button issue in the industry. Every forum out there has people talking about Chinabomb tires and the damage they cause. So, even if we don't "need" better tires, it would certainly be an excellent business decision to have them standard. The industry would be abuzz about Heartland being the only ones out there providing quality tires as a standard feature from the getgo. The increased sales from that buzz alone would cover the cost increase....

 

[ihsolutions]

Re: Hidden Options.

I can understand people's frustration about the concept of hidden options. In my opinion, this is something that can be solved with better training of the dealers, to let customers know there are some off-sheet options that can be ordered, and here's what they are. A lot of dealers don't have a clue. Who is responsible for the dealers being knowledgeable? There's probably plenty of blame to go around.

I disagree with the comment that 90% of people would pay for better tires. I would say it's closer to 10%, but that's only a guess.

I'm sure Heartland has good reasons for keeping some options hidden. They are mass-producing RV's, so the fewer options they offer, the quicker you can build them. Maybe that's why we see these big, expensive mandatory option packages on the higher end units. Put the stuff on every unit, especially stuff most people are going to order. For the hidden options, most people presumable WON'T order, so keep that off the build sheet.

On my 2011 Big Horn, the only off-sheet options I bought were the Goodyear G614's, and the 8k axles with larger drum brakes. Both were a great value, and I'd do it again.

 

[taken]

Re: Hidden Options.

Only 10% would buy the tires... including you... LOL and me and everyone else I chat with... Like I said, grabbing a tire and wheel combo from one pile or another would make no difference in production time. No different than interior color options. Same with the pinbox. As to the dealers not knowing about hidden options, make them regular options on the order sheet and that would solve that too.

 

[ihsolutions]

Re: Hidden Options.

Only 10% would buy the tires... including you... LOL and me and everyone else I chat with... Like I said, grabbing a tire and wheel combo from one pile or another would make no difference in production time. No different than interior color options. Same with the pinbox. As to the dealers not knowing about hidden options, make them regular options on the order sheet and that would solve that too.

There's a whole staff at Heartland who have probably put some thought into doing things the way that they do. Which is not to say we always agree with them, but certainly you and I have only a tiny fraction of the knowledge about their process that they do. So for us to presume that we know better is, to me, a little arrogant. I'll just trust there's a valid reason they do this. Would it be better in your view if none of these hidden options were available in the first place?

 

[taken]

Re: Hidden Options.

Better than not knowing about them? You bet!

 

[porthole]

Re: Hidden Options.

he can only recall 4-5 upgrades to the Goodyear rubber in the last 4 years and never on a dual axle, only on a triple. My contention is that more than 4 people would have ordered if they knew the option was available.

Not exactly correct, I practically begged to get the GY 614's.

 

[taken]

Re: Hidden Options.

Not exactly correct, I practically begged to get the GY 614's.

Hey, you're lucky. I never got the chance to beg as I never knew it was possible! Just got a quote from Lippert to do a Level Up system after the fact utilizing my existing hydraulic front landing gear. $3800 +/- I wonder how much it would have been if I just ordered it from Heartland?

 

[Porkchop]

'hidden' upgrades from the factory build?

I've heard there are some upgrades to consider if I'm buying from a fresh build.

Can you guys and gals share your thoughts on them and cost (in a separate pm) so I can evaluate and see if I should go for it?

Looking at the cyclone 3010.

Thanks!

 

[GOTTOYS]

Re: Why the hidden options?????

So, I got my answer as to why, but I thought I would post to help other buyers. When ordering our 30C there were two options I would have ordered from the factory if I knew I could. They are listed as special non standard options and aren't on the order sheet. First is the load range G Goodyear tires and 110 PSI rims. Second is the Reese 5th Airborne pinbox. Both are things I would have ordered if I knew they were available. Anther thought is they are both sold as an IPO option (In Place Of the standard) which means they are much cheaper to order from the get go than if you want to add them later. Now, there is a third option that is brand new. It is Lippert's Level Up self leveling system. Also a hidden option. This wasn't available when I ordered a couple of months ago but is now and might make for a nice addition to your rig if factory ordering....

Big Horn uses a Lippert Frame, supplied to them with a Lippert pin box. Lippert owns Trail Aire, a competitor of Reese and their Fifth Airborne. Why would Lippert ever ship a frame with a competitors pin box installed? Let's not get too carried away with these rumored hidden lists. I'm sure they will try as best they can but I can't imagine they are going to tie up the entire assembly line process to install some non-standard items. It's like trying to order a Chevrolet with Cadillac seats...Don

 

[TandT]

Re: Hidden Options.

First of all, this thread was over 2 years old, before it was revived 4 days ago. Some things can change in 2 years.

FWIW, I asked a sales manager from HL at the Pomona show last fall, why every customer is not made aware of so called "hidden options".

His response was (paraphrasing), that it puts too much strain on the manufacturing process, to offer a "ala carte" menu for every rig. Production would be slowed greatly, making many more customers unhappy with delay time, on order to receipt of unit.

If a customer requests an available option, HL will do their best to accommodate the request. It is just not a preferred practice by HL to build a semi-custom rig for every customer. Trace

 

[taken]

Re: Why the hidden options?????

Big Horn uses a Lippert Frame, supplied to them with a Lippert pin box. Lippert owns Trail Aire, a competitor of Reese and their Fifth Airborne. Why would Lippert ever ship a frame with a competitors pin box installed? Let's not get too carried away with these rumored hidden lists. I'm sure they will try as best they can but I can't imagine they are going to tie up the entire assembly line process to install some non-standard items. It's like trying to order a Chevrolet with Cadillac seats...Don

The very first post shows an old hidden option list including the Reese Hitch. Mike Alpin also confirmed it was an option. Why it is offered on a Lippert frame I don't know, but it is.

 

[taken]

Re: Hidden Options.

First of all, this thread was over 2 years old, before it was revived 4 days ago. Some things can change in 2 years.

FWIW, I asked a sales manager from HL at the Pomona show last fall, why every customer is not made aware of so called "hidden options".

His response was (paraphrasing), that it puts too much strain on the manufacturing process, to offer a "ala carte" menu for every rig. Production would be slowed greatly, making many more customers unhappy with delay time, on order to receipt of unit.

If a customer requests an available option, HL will do their best to accommodate the request. It is just not a preferred practice by HL to build a semi-custom rig for every customer. Trace

It's revived because I started my own post about these options in the RW section and people are interested. I posted about it because I never knew when custom ordering about three available options and am fairly upset about it. Either offer an option or don't because if someone finds out after the fact about something "hidden" that they could have ordered, they will be a little upset. Especially if it's something(s) they really wanted and didn't know they could order. To put it more simply, if you are going to do it for one person, you have to do it for everyone. Otherwise, don't do it at all.

 

[cookie]

Re: Hidden Options.

Especially if it's something(s) they really wanted and didn't know they could order. .

If there was something you really wanted did you ask your dealer about the possibility of getting it when you ordered?
It would be up to him to check on that for you.

Peace
Dave

 

[jbeletti]

I understand the frustration of the so called "Hidden Options". The reality is this is less a real "list" and more a "can or cannot do" thing.

For example, if one asks us to leave decals off the exterior of their new coach and we are able to accommodate the request, this is a "can do" item for you as a one off, not the new norm.

If someone asks us if we will install a SeeLevel tank monitoring system if they supply it to us and if we have time in the schedule to do it and we agree to do it, this is a "can do" item for you as a one off, not the new norm. The plant doesn't always have time to do things like this, but it's happened.

If you want us to install a dishwasher in a new coach that has the room for it and where the plumbing routing will work, and if we have time to do it, this is a "can do" item for you as a one off, not the new norm.

If you want an item in your coach that we have access to because we use it at another plant in another Heartland brand and the plant is willing to gather the item and do the install, this is a "can do" item for you as a one off, not the new norm.

If we were to tally anything and everything we've ever done to a new coach at the request of the customer, based on what it was, what our access to the equipment was, what our available timing was, what the cost to you was etc., then add all these items to our order sheet as "options", it would be a very long list based on going on 9 years of production. And the fact is, the factory can't always meet requests we've met in the past. And still, there are more items we've not yet been asked to do, that in fact, we may be able to do and may do if asked. It would be a never ending list of maybes is what I am saying.

Rather than have a list of 250 maybes, Heartland sticks to a shorter list of options that can be done any day, every day. If you have something you want us to do when you order your new coach, please work with your dealer, and/or the dealer's factory rep to get what you want. We won't always be able to provide 100% of your requests. But we try hard to accommodate.

So this is my take on this matter. I was frustrated by reading new threads about hidden options, so I merged them all into this thread here so it's not a fragmented conversation all over the forum. And not wanting to stifle the conversation, I felt it best to not delete it altogether, rather, to keep it intact here.

I don't make a single decision on what options Heartland offers of what "can do" or "have done before" items make it to the official options list. As such, I am NOT able to field many questions about it.

Thank you for understanding my position on this matter and I apologize to those who are frustrated by the feeling that they may have been able to ask us to add even more to their unit or make certain changes to their unit but were not aware that they had the ability to make the request or that at times, we may or may not be able to comply.

Jim

 

[taken]

Thanks for the info Jim. What you say makes sense. Maybe others will read here before ordering and save themselves the frustration I experienced after the fact. A classic case of "if I knew then what I know now..."

 

[porthole]

I think the bottom line is the lack of communications from the dealer. Or the un-willingness to go the extra step for the customer.

 

[taken]

I think the bottom line is the lack of communications from the dealer. Or the un-willingness to go the extra step for the customer.

I disagree. My dealer gave me everything I asked for and was very accommodating. How could they offer something if they didn't know I wanted it and how could I know to let them know that I wanted it, if it wasn't listed as an option???

 

[porthole]

Because the dealer knows everything that can be done with an order, hidden options or not, extra steps that can be taken etc.

As to the rest of your comment, those questions can be answerd by the many post and threads throughout this forum.