How safe are propane furnaces? I remember an RV burning to the ground in a NY campground some years back. It was believed the furnace was the cause. No one was hurt but the RV was totaled and those on either side were damaged from the heat. Our RV is insured but our three cats, like members of the family, are not replaceable. How do these furnaces cause fires?
How safe is propane?
- Thread starter RanCarr
- Start date
I would say normally very safe. Something would have to be radically wrong to have that happen. This is our third TT and had a tent trailer for three years with propane furnaces. That is about 26 years of use. Never had a problem and one trailer we had for 15 years. Always made sure they were operating correctly. Only problem occurred with the tent trailer when the fan motor died. Simply would not operate. Never a problem with propane flowing without being lit. Loose fittings that allowed propane to leak could cause a problem but you could smell that or at least set off the sensor. And those are relatively new so it could be something like that.
brianharrison
Well-known member
It is important to note that propane gas is heavier than air - ie it will pool and collect in low or enclosed spaces. Make sure your propance detector in your trailer is functional.
Leaks are probably the most dangerous (always assume an ignition source is present). Retail propane is always odorized - ie it will smell like rotten eggs with a propane leak; a mercaptan odorizer is used to help the human nose detect a propane leak, you can smell it way below any concerns of explosive mixture being formed. If you smell it, open a window, get out, shut off the tanks if it is safe to do so, and get a technician trained in propane (ie gas fitter, etc) to inspect your system. Usually your propane detector will pick it up before you can smell it.
Hope this helps.
Take care,
Brian
Leaks are probably the most dangerous (always assume an ignition source is present). Retail propane is always odorized - ie it will smell like rotten eggs with a propane leak; a mercaptan odorizer is used to help the human nose detect a propane leak, you can smell it way below any concerns of explosive mixture being formed. If you smell it, open a window, get out, shut off the tanks if it is safe to do so, and get a technician trained in propane (ie gas fitter, etc) to inspect your system. Usually your propane detector will pick it up before you can smell it.
Hope this helps.
Take care,
Brian
SmokeyBare
Well-known member
Keep in mind the propane tanks are placed in a cabinet which is open to the outside air so that "Should" there ever be a leak it would flow freely out of the RV. Each propane tank has a OPD Safety valve. OPD valves are designed so that propane will not flow from the service valve unless it is hooked up to a hose end connection. The OPD Valve only allows the tank to be filled to 80%. The Float within the tank then shuts or closes the valve, preventing more gas to flow into the tank. The reason for only 80% full is to allow room for gas to expand inside the tank. One more safety feature in the RV is a propane detector. It will be located very close to floor level. Since as already stated, propane is heavier than air it will flow to a low level. Should propane leak in the RV cabin it will flow down to the floor level and the detector which is wired into the electrical supply and not a battery within the detector, will sound an alarm. All detectors in the RV should be tested regularly to make sure they operate properly.
wdk450
Well-known member
RanCarr:
Propane is a necessary evil if you want to have heat and an RV refrigerator. The shaking your "house" gets going down the road stresses connections more than sitting still at home. You can do a thorough propane leak test with just your existing system, and one of those propane tank level pressure gauges. You simply connect the gauge between your tank and feed hose(s), turn on the tank pressure, then turn off the tank pressure. With no propane consuming devices on (i.e. stove off, refrig off), the gauge pressure should not leak down any quicker than maybe 10 minutes. Any leak down is a leak in the system somewhere. Then it needs to be traced down with bubble soap, an electronic detector, or by a certified RV technician until the leak is found, and the system no longer fails the leak down test.
BTW, I am under the impression that lots more RV fires are caused by problems in the propane section of the RV refrigerator than any other device or piping. It is a good idea to have your propane RV refrigerator inspected by a certified RV technician on a regular basis.
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jmgratz
Original Owners Club Member
Let's look at this question from another angle. How safe is natural gas in your home? I would respond by saying both Propane and Natural Gas are as safe as the user. If you do stupid and unsafe acts you will have a problem. If you use common sense and good safety practices you should not have a problem.
danemayer
Well-known member
MAC the Fire Guy had a seminar at the national rally in June. You should look over his schedule and see if you can intercept him for some information. http://www.macthefireguy.com/RallySchedule.htm
I'd note a couple of things he stressed: 1) you should have an escape plan and test your escape windows and how you will actually get out of them - including your pets. 2) you need to have fire extinguishers in several locations in your RV, and know how to use them.
I think his presentation covered a lot of fire exposures that occur in motor coaches because of the proximity of hot engine/drive train components to combustible materials in the passenger area. Tire/wheel problems while driving contribute to fires. I think he mentioned kitchen fires as well. Obviously you don't have the motor coach exposures. If worried about tire/wheel problems, you can mitigate those with a monitoring system. You can also mitigate kitchen fire exposures. I don't recall him expressing concerns about furnaces. I don't remember what he might have said about refrigerators except to have a fire extinguisher in your bedroom and be prepared to exit through the emergency exit window.
Anyway, education on RV Fire Safety might be your best friend. Mac's made it his crusade to educate RV owners.
I'd note a couple of things he stressed: 1) you should have an escape plan and test your escape windows and how you will actually get out of them - including your pets. 2) you need to have fire extinguishers in several locations in your RV, and know how to use them.
I think his presentation covered a lot of fire exposures that occur in motor coaches because of the proximity of hot engine/drive train components to combustible materials in the passenger area. Tire/wheel problems while driving contribute to fires. I think he mentioned kitchen fires as well. Obviously you don't have the motor coach exposures. If worried about tire/wheel problems, you can mitigate those with a monitoring system. You can also mitigate kitchen fire exposures. I don't recall him expressing concerns about furnaces. I don't remember what he might have said about refrigerators except to have a fire extinguisher in your bedroom and be prepared to exit through the emergency exit window.
Anyway, education on RV Fire Safety might be your best friend. Mac's made it his crusade to educate RV owners.
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
Dan, I recall Mac being against running the refer on propane while driving down the road. Concern was with the possibility of a tire blow-out damaging the gas line and it free-flowing until something hot or a metal spark ignited it. Unless the cross-over regulator has a free-flow prevention built into it (doubtful), there is nothing to halt the flow if the line gets severed.
Like most cautions, it's something to think about and make your own decisions in regards to your safety comfort level.
Like most cautions, it's something to think about and make your own decisions in regards to your safety comfort level.
Hastey
Oklahoma Chapter Leaders
The free flow shut-off is in the tank itself. All propane tanks are required by law to have the "new style" valves on them. The valve has a shut off built into it in case of free-flow. By law if the tanks are old enough not to have them they are not suppose to be filled at the vendor.
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
That's a false assumption. The required OPD valve does not shut off the flow if the tank is connected to the required hose fitting. It only prevents overfilling of the tank.
http://www.propane101.com/index.htm
[h=3]OPD Valve Operation[/h]Propane OPD valves operate inside the bottle and are activated as the liquid propane in the cylinder rises to a level that pushes a float upward stopping the flow of gas into the bottle. This action is similar to that of a float valve in a toilet; once the water in the bowl rises to a certain level, the flow of water stops. The OPD valve is only actuated during the filling process, not during operation. In other words, inverting a cylinder will cause an OPD float to actuate but it will not stop the flow of gas out of the cylinder. Why is this important to know? Because the OPD valve is not designed to restrict flow out of the cylinder, it's only designed to stop flow into the cylinder during the filling process. OPD equipped propane cylinders will allow liquid propane into gas lines and hoses if tipped over or inverted. Overfill Prevention Devices are not a safety mechanism used or actuated during cylinder usage.
OPD valves are also designed to only allow propane into and out of the bottle if attached to the appropriate hose end connection. The threads on this type of connection are called ACME threads and are visible on the OPD valve at the point of connection. The ACME threads are easily identified by how much larger and farther apart they are as compared to normal pipe threads. OPD valves will not allow propane out of the bottle if it is not hooked up to anything. This is why turning (opening) an OPD handwheel on an unattached bottle does nothing in terms of letting propane out. Many people think that the bottle is empty but in fact, the cylinder needs to be hooked up to allow any gas out. Learn more about the Valve Open - No Propane issue that many users have with OPD equipped propane cylinders.
It does not work like that if the "leak" or "free flow" is after the regulator. We use free flow all the time to ignite large debris piles.
Duramax1
Well-known member
When I fill my tank that has an OPD valve every operator always charges me for a volume that equates to 100% of the capacity of the tank, not 80%.
What has your experience been?
rick_debbie_gallant
Well-known member
Can we put this to rest once and for all? The EFV (excess flow valve) is NOT in the OPD valve. the EFV is in the NIPPLE of the large nut used to connect to the propane tank. "The trailer cylinders are DOT (Dept. Of Transportation) and have additional safeguards in the OPD and the pigtails because, as said earlier, they are disconnected completely on a regular basis by the user. These are in the 4-40 pound capacities. (Usually 30 pounds on fivers, and 20-pound cylinders on some TTs.)"
This further explains the above quote. "
Now to the new style excess flow check valve on the Acme nut that connects to the DOT cylinder's OPD valve. It is really a simple device. Inside the Acme nut, there is a ball bearing check valve that almost shuts off momentarily when full pressure is released by opening the cylinder valve. You should hear a click at that point. It doesn't shut down completely, as that would negate its ability to detect leaks and excess flow from a leak or major line break, and no gas could flow. It closes just enough to allow a bypass of gas that is very slight, about 10 cubic feet or less per hour (cf/hour) flow, as opposed to the max flow of 200 cf/hour. The bypass gas goes into the propane system, and if there are no leaks or broken pipes, it backs up and builds pressure in the gas lines in the RV. When it equalizes on both sides of the valve, the valve opens to allow full pressure up to about a max of 200 cf/hour at 100 psi. Then if you were standing there, you would hear a second click. Using all of your propane appliances should not exceed 100cf/hour. If there is a leak or a broken pipe, the pressure can't build up and the excess flow valve doesn't open up all the way thus limiting the gas output to about 10 cf/hour, or less. It is important to note that propane, like gasoline vapor, has narrow ignition requirements as far as air fuel mixture is concerned. So if you lit the leak (Don't try this at home!) it would show a flame at the leak in the air, but the concentration is too high in the line for it to ignite. In other words the fire can't run up the line to the cylinder or tank to ignite it. Want to see it in action? Watch your gas range work. Why doesn't the flame travel up the tube it comes out of to the burner? Same thing.
Here is the link to the full article if you wish to take the time to read it. http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore/rvroadiervfulltimingwhatisitreallylike/id44.html
NOW there should be no questions correct. Maybe we should post this to our WIKI!
This further explains the above quote. "
Now to the new style excess flow check valve on the Acme nut that connects to the DOT cylinder's OPD valve. It is really a simple device. Inside the Acme nut, there is a ball bearing check valve that almost shuts off momentarily when full pressure is released by opening the cylinder valve. You should hear a click at that point. It doesn't shut down completely, as that would negate its ability to detect leaks and excess flow from a leak or major line break, and no gas could flow. It closes just enough to allow a bypass of gas that is very slight, about 10 cubic feet or less per hour (cf/hour) flow, as opposed to the max flow of 200 cf/hour. The bypass gas goes into the propane system, and if there are no leaks or broken pipes, it backs up and builds pressure in the gas lines in the RV. When it equalizes on both sides of the valve, the valve opens to allow full pressure up to about a max of 200 cf/hour at 100 psi. Then if you were standing there, you would hear a second click. Using all of your propane appliances should not exceed 100cf/hour. If there is a leak or a broken pipe, the pressure can't build up and the excess flow valve doesn't open up all the way thus limiting the gas output to about 10 cf/hour, or less. It is important to note that propane, like gasoline vapor, has narrow ignition requirements as far as air fuel mixture is concerned. So if you lit the leak (Don't try this at home!) it would show a flame at the leak in the air, but the concentration is too high in the line for it to ignite. In other words the fire can't run up the line to the cylinder or tank to ignite it. Want to see it in action? Watch your gas range work. Why doesn't the flame travel up the tube it comes out of to the burner? Same thing.
Here is the link to the full article if you wish to take the time to read it. http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore/rvroadiervfulltimingwhatisitreallylike/id44.html
NOW there should be no questions correct. Maybe we should post this to our WIKI!
Thank you. I'll look for the button and dig the manuals out again. We do turn the gas off once in the campground since we don't cook inside. But on longer trips we often spend the night dry camping somewhere so leave it on for the fridge and to make coffee, and for needed heat.
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