Hydraulic systems causing 12v faults - help requested please

[Alan_B]

I could use some help solving a vexing problem with the hydraulic systems on my 2016 Bighorn. When closing the slides or raising the level-up jacks, I get repeated faults to the entire 12 volt system.

I have read the HOC User Guide on hydraulic slide stops and starts. More on that below.

Background:

1. The problem began about a year ago. When closing the slides or raising the jacks, the entire 12 volt system would fault. The lights would go out, etc. After a couple of seconds they would come back on, and I could make more progress on the slides or jacks.
2. After reading the User Guide I replace two 50A breakers, the "upper" one right below the manual reset breaker, and the "lower" one just below the breaker grouping.
3. After replacing those breakers, the system continued to fault. But after that, just the hydraulic system would fault. The rest of the 12 volt system would still work. And the hydraulic system would come back online faster than before.
4. This would happen when on battery power or on shore power, no difference.

Present Status:

• Today I again replaced the two 50A breakers described above.
• Now when closing the slides or raising the jacks, the entire 12V system shuts down for a few seconds, just as I described in #1 above.
• This was on battery power. The battery voltage is 13.2.

It seems to me that maybe some "master" 12 volt auto-reset breaker is popping. This would explain the shut down of the whole 12 volt system. However I looked in the electrical bay and also checked the HOC "12 volt block diagram and diagnostics" user guide but can't find such a breaker.

Any ideas? Thanks

 

[Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn]

There should be 1 - 50amp breaker between the batteries and all the other breakers. That one could be going bad.

I think it sounds like weak batteries

Or a possible bad ground cable connection to the frame if it is doing it on shore power also.

That's a start
Jerrod

Look into that and if you need any help PM me your number and I can walk you through a few thing.
I know this is a forum for all of us to learn a few things but it's easier for me to talk to you.
LOL




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[danemayer]

This was on battery power. The battery voltage is 13.2.

Battery voltage when not connected to any external power, or to the tow vehicle, should be 12.6V. A reading of 13.2V indicates another power source is connected to the trailer.

Do you have solar power installed, or an aftermarket inverter installed?

 

[Alan_B]

Battery voltage when not connected to any external power, or to the tow vehicle, should be 12.6V. A reading of 13.2V indicates another power source is connected to the trailer.

Do you have solar power installed, or an aftermarket inverter installed?

Solar power on the roof.

Could that mask weak batteries? They are about a year old, a large Lifeline AGM battery bank.

- - - Updated - - -

There should be 1 - 50amp breaker between the batteries and all the other breakers. That one could be going bad.
...
Look into that and if you need any help PM me your number and I can walk you through a few thing.
I know this is a forum for all of us to learn a few things but it's easier for me to talk to you.
LOL

Thanks Jerrod. If I understand the 12V block diagram, that would be the 50A breaker with the teeny manual reset button. Since my 12v system fault is auto-resetting, I didn't consider that breaker. But maybe I am wrong and there is another breaker I am missing.

Thanks for the generous offer for the PM. I'll probably take you up on that at some point!

thx

 

[danemayer]

Solar power on the roof.

Could that mask weak batteries? They are about a year old, a large Lifeline AGM battery bank.

- - - Updated - - -



Thanks Jerrod. If I understand the 12V block diagram, that would be the 50A breaker with the teeny manual reset button. Since my 12v system fault is auto-resetting, I didn't consider that breaker. But maybe I am wrong and there is another breaker I am missing.

Thanks for the generous offer for the PM. I'll probably take you up on that at some point!

thx

Could solar mask weak batteries? Yes. Most solar installations supply low amperage. Hydraulics take high amps and primarily rely on the energy stored in the batteries. But suppose you have a bad cell on the battery bank, keeping the supplied voltage low. The solar panel(s) don't supply enough amps to maintain the voltage when the hydraulic pump puts maximum demand on the batteries.

There could be other problems, but I'd suggest taking the batteries to an auto parts store, or auto service center and have them load tested.

On the 12V Block Diagram and Diagnostic - that's a representation of a simple installation. Many of our rigs have much more complicated 12V systems. For example, if you have a residential refrigerator, it gets more complicated. Also, over the years Heartland has made a number of changes in how they pull power for the emergency breakaway circuit, the generator start (if you have generator prep), and the connection to the tow vehicle. The guides, including the Electrical User Guide, have some of these more complicated representations, but even so, you may need to trace the wiring from the batteries all the way to your hydraulic pump to get the complete picture for your rig. And addition of solar components can introduce further complications.

 

[Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn]

Solar power on the roof.

Could that mask weak batteries? They are about a year old, a large Lifeline AGM battery bank.

- - - Updated - - -



Thanks Jerrod. If I understand the 12V block diagram, that would be the 50A breaker with the teeny manual reset button. Since my 12v system fault is auto-resetting, I didn't consider that breaker. But maybe I am wrong and there is another breaker I am missing.

Thanks for the generous offer for the PM. I'll probably take you up on that at some point!

thx

The first 50 amp breaker between the batteries and the rest of the breakers is a auto reset.
The only manual reset breaker (the one with the button) is in between the batteries and the Convertor.
I have 1 here i marker it in blue...
This is in my 2015 Landmark

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[Alan_B]

The first 50 amp breaker between the batteries and the rest of the breakers is an auto reset.

thanks! Is that 50A breaker the same general size and shape as the other 50A breakers?

I will look for it tomorrow.

 

[Bones]

I've read through the whole list here. Everyone has excellent suggestions. I see that your power always comes back which tells me something is tripping and then returning. Did you add your solar system a year ago? What changes have you made to the system a year ago? I would start small first and eliminate a few common things first before you dive into the electrical unless something is glaring. Start with your batteries. Make sure all power supplying the batteries is off before you do this or you could damage your solar controllers. Follow manufacture instructions on disconnecting the solar array. Next check all the battery lugs to make sure they are tight and have not loosened up over the years. Look for broken cables heavy gauge ones. Once you confirm if the batteries are functioning properly by-pass the electrical system by jumping power directly from the batteries to the hydraulic system. Run these series of test to see where the issue may lie first. Process of elimination. Fyi I've had the lugs inside the battery break and you would have had no idea until you put a load on it.

On another thought check your battery disconnect switch as well. Is it on?

 

[Alan_B]

Solved: Hydraulic systems causing 12v faults

Thanks to everyone who responded on this thread.

Jerrod, you were correct. This morning I replaced the 50A breaker between the battery bank and the 12 volt circuit breaker bank. Everything is working properly now.

It appears that there are 3 50A breakers in the path for the hydraulic system: #1, the breaker between the battery bank and the 12 volt circuit breaker bank; #2, a hydraulic breaker in the 12 volt circuit breaker bank, and #3 a secondary hydraulic breaker positioned below the 12 volt circuit breaker bank. (BTW, these last two are exactly as described in the HOC user guide on hydraulic start stop issues.)

Of course, the weak link in the chain will break first. After replacing the #2 & #3 hydraulic system breakers last year, the #1 breaker became the weakest link.

If and when this problem re-occurs I think it will be time to upgrade to better quality 50A breakers.

 

[Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn]

Glad you found it.
I would do the issolated 80amp breaker upgrade straight from the batteries to the hydraulic solenoid, that will guaranty the hydraulic system to work worry free, and eliminate a lot of stress off of that first 50amp breaker.

Happy trails
Jerrod

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[travelin2]

Glad you found it.
I would do the issolated 80amp breaker upgrade straight from the batteries to the hydraulic solenoid, that will guaranty the hydraulic system to work worry free, and eliminate a lot of stress off of that first 50amp breaker.

Happy trails
Jerrod

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That was my solution. Bypassed all the OEM stuff by connecting new 2ga cable, 80 marine breaker directly from battery to pump.


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[kakampers]

That was my solution. Bypassed all the OEM stuff by connecting new 2ga cable, 80 marine breaker directly from battery to pump.


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THANK YOU! Been fighting this issue FOREVER...even after replacing the 50 amp breaker with a Bussman 80 amp resettable breaker, we still had this issue with the entire 12v system stopping and resetting. Ken just bypassed the 12v buss bar altogether and it's now working perfectly!! We are again happy campers...

 

[travelin2]

A number of folks upsize the breaker but never the cable. The draw heats the cable, breaker still trips. IMO it’s upsize both for the best results
Glad you found a solution