I smell smoke !!!

[jhardin]

First of all I want to thank the Good Lord for watching over my wife, myself and our four legged fuzzy child Ollie.
It all started out several days ago and I thought I could smell the sent of an electrical burn in the basement. It was a faint smell and I didn't think much of it. It seemed to get a little stronger as the days go by, but DW never mentioned smelling it. But Thursday night inside the coach she stated I smell smoke and it's strong ( I did also) and it got stronger. I opened the basement Doors and it was real strong. I took down the basement walls and saw the lights glowing on the Surge Guard that stated something like needs service. It was very hot to the touch. I called my dealer and he had never head of such and recomend I call TRC (surge Guard mg.) I did and went to a tech voice mail (Steve) which said he would get call back. Oh yeah, it was 4:30 pm eastern time and beginning of call said they were open until 5:00 am eastern time. Also I told him I could smell what seemed like an electrical burn coming from the Surge Guard and to call me back. Well.... never heard from Ole StevO. So I had to tackle the job blinded. I have attached several pic's for you to see. Because of my uneducated guess is that the problem came from Heartland.
1. Several of the wire screw downs heads are broken from over tightening.
2. Looks like a possible cross thread of black wire causing a loose connection.
3. Mabe broke the porcelain by over tightening.
I hope Hearth and takes a close look at this and brings it to the attention of the Surge Guard installer and educates him/her on the importance of this being done right (it could very well cost a life). To me it falls into the same important role as the gas line.
I made a temporary repair by removing the Surge Guard (do not have generator so just left it disconnected ) using split bolts and taping up.
Know, call Heartland tomorrow to see if they will make it good.
It sure would be nice if they paid for my parts and time to temporarily repair it.😎
Not bashing anyone, just want to bring it to my Heartland families attention in case you have the TRC Surge Guard.
Jerry

 

[danemayer]

Hi Jerry,

A couple of years ago I had a similar problem on our transfer switch. Ours didn't have the surge protection, but the heat damage to the transfer switch portion and wiring looks very much the same.

Other than some discoloration to several wires, the problem on ours was contained within the metal enclosure.

It can be difficult to determine the root cause. On ours, I suspect pitting on the contactor surfaces may have led to a progressive increase in resistance, in turn leading to increasing heat. Based on that theory, I now keep the RV main breakers turned off when connecting and disconnecting shore power, so as to minimize or eliminate arcing inside the transfer switch.

 

[porthole]

View attachment 56852

Loose connections is frequently the cause of problems in that box. Is the screw for the black wire loose? It sure doesn't look properly installed.

 

[jhardin]

Loose connections is frequently the cause of problems in that box. Is the screw for the black wire loose? It sure doesn't look properly installed.

I haven't taken it apart in case the factory wants to look at it. But to answer your question, it is higher than the others, looks as if it was cross threaded, also the porcelain under it is broken.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[jhardin]

I haven't taken it apart in case the factory wants to look at it. But to answer your question, it is higher than the others, looks as if it was cross threaded, also the porcelain under it is broken.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

If you can enlarge this pic, look at the heads of the screws. Over tightening

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Bogie]

I just purchased one of these transfer switches. The instructions require that the terminals be torqued to 45 inch lbs.

Also, the instructions clearly state:

"CAUTION: To avoid damage to the transfer switch or the RV, torque specifications on the terminal block cable installation
diagram MUST be followed. Make sure that the screws holding the input and output power cables down to the terminal block
are fully tightened to the correct torque. Failure to fully tighten these connections could cause an electrical shock or fire hazard.
Care must be taken to assure that the terminal screws are not cross threaded, otherwise an improper torque will result."

On the transfer switch I received, some of the terminal screws were installed at manufacture so tight that I found it difficult to break them free in order
to back them off. I had to use the correct size screw driver (large blade) to accomplish this. If the terminals screw heads on your switch were broken
when initially backing them off, it is unlikely they could be torqued to the correct pressure.

The installer should have done it right.

 

[porthole]

1) I called my dealer and he had never head of such

2) Because of my uneducated guess is that the problem came from Heartland.

3) Looks like a possible cross thread of black wire causing a loose connection.

4) Mabe broke the porcelain by over tightening.

5) I hope Hearth and takes a close look at this and brings it to the attention of the Surge Guard installer and educates him/her on the importance

6) I made a temporary repair by removing the Surge Guard (do not have generator so just left it disconnected ) using split bolts and taping up.

7) It sure would be nice if they paid for my parts and time to temporarily repair it.��

1) He is either BS'ing or has not worked on enough RV's. Your situation is actually more common then you would think. And more then one RV was repaired for this while at a rally.

2) Improper installation

3) Loose or cross threaded, whatever, poor connection = heat

4) You mention porcelain twice, what are you referring too?

5) Not going to happen

6) If it was mine, and I had no intention of using a built in generator, I would:
a) replace the transfer switch with a Progressive Industries HW50 EMS (electrical management system)
b) replace those split nuts with proper connectors.

7) If you are under warranty, you should at least have no problem getting a new transfer switch. Your time - forget it, you are not an authorized warranty service provider.

- - - Updated - - -

I haven't taken it apart in case the factory wants to look at it.

Look at it as in failure reason? Not likely, only requesting return for authorized warranty claim against the manufacturer, which is most likely not going to be covered by surge guar since it most likely appears to be improper installation.

 

[LBR]

I happened to be aware of the many posted electrical gremlins mentioned here before purchasing our 2017 CY.

Two weeks after getting it, I pulled out the batteries, pulled the 120 plug, and spent about 5 hours in the basement and electrical compartment tightening every nut, bolt, screw, etc. I could find... including inside transfer switches, all power connections, generator, both 12V and 120V fuse blocks.

Ahhhh, the horror stories of loose connections I could share!...lol...but such a great peace of mind.

I suggest every DIYer do the same....not only to secure many loose electrical connections, but to also familiarize yourselves with your coach's infrastructure for future knowledge.

 

[wdk450]

You know, this also brings up the question of twisted small wire cables and ferrules that enclose the wire ends. These aren't commonly used in the United States but are REQUIRED by European electrical standards laws. See: http://www.ferrulesdirect.com

On edit: Here is a link to a .PDF paper download on the subject. Check out the 2 charts presented
http://www.weidmuller.com/bausteine.net/f/7862/Weidmuller_Ferrules_White_Paper.pdf?fd=3

 

[porthole]

You know, this also brings up the question of twisted small wire cables and ferrules that enclose the wire ends. These aren't commonly used in the United States but are REQUIRED by European electrical standards laws. See: http://www.ferrulesdirect.com

Things are a lot different over there.

Above the bathroom door, on the outside, the fan switch (my daughters flat in outside London).

 

[markwilson]

About a week ago I threw one of those ATS Surge Guards into the trash. Sick to death of listening to it chatter all the time. Early on I thought I heard electricity arching all the time and finally got out the manual to discover "contactor chattering," or some such thing, in the troubleshooting section. Like you, I don't have the generator though the rig is wired for one. I had taken the gen box out a long time ago to make more room for batteries and stuff. Not needing the transfer switch function I purchased the "Progressive Industries HW50C Surge & Electrical Protection" from Amazon. Tickled pink with it.