Improper Wired Recepticles

[rebootsemi]

I removed the recepticle in the bathroom to get inside the wall. While removing th GFCI I noticed that the wires were not stripped correctly. They did not strip off enough insulation so when making up the connection in the GFCI you are clamping insulation instead of the copper wire. This could be the reason the bathroom recepticle would trip the breaker all the time. So now I'm curious and open up another recepticle same thing. Tomorrow I will open up the remaining ones in the trailer.

So if you have a recepticle that always trips the breaker, check to see that it was wired correctly.

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

Lee, I think the receptacles used in RV's are "supposed" to be used without removing insulation. The wire gets pushed into the contact point and the idea is that the insulation is supposed to be "cut" by the contact point in the receptacle. I guess the idea is to save time in the build process. I agree, not the best way to do it but it is designed that way and used by most RV manufacturers.
We have replaced a few outlets in our trailer including the GFI.

 

[JohnDar]

Ray, that type of receptacle isn't even advised in a house wiring. But they're out there. Cheap and dangerous, sold in the DIY bargain bins.

 

[Bob&Patty]

As Ray stated all my recepticals are the same way. They just look wrong. Anytime I have a problem with one..it gets replaced with the normal household type.

 

[rebootsemi]

The recepticles used in our 2011 Sundance are of good quality not the best but good. They are the newer style where you strip 1/2" of insulation and back off the mounting screws and just stick the wire in the hole and tighten up the screw. Inside the piece there is a clamp that compresses the wire when you tighten the screw, just make sure you back off the screws to open the clamp. All the bozo's would have had to do is strip another 1/4" of insulation off.
I don't know if you can even buy the push in contact type anymore, they will not meet NEC code for sure. I wouldn't use any of those if you paid me and bought the fire insurance.

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

The recepticles used in our 2011 Sundance are of good quality not the best but good. They are the newer style where you strip 1/2" of insulation and back off the mounting screws and just stick the wire in the hole and tighten up the screw. Inside the piece there is a clamp that compresses the wire when you tighten the screw, just make sure you back off the screws to open the clamp. All the bozo's would have had to do is strip another 1/4" of insulation off.
I don't know if you can even buy the push in contact type anymore, they will not meet NEC code for sure. I wouldn't use any of those if you paid me and bought the fire insurance.

So it sounds like they may have started using better material and all they need to do is install it right. Have you looked at any of the other non GFI outlets in your Sundance? I agree the push in style contacts are bad news but that's what they were using in 2007. Hopefully they have updated what they're using now. It wouldn't take much to switch all of mine over to residential type outlets. I think I only have 3 or 4 more to do. I already did the GFI and all the outlets it protects.

 

[rebootsemi]

I spoke to soon the rest of the recepticles in the trailer are some of the cheapest things, I have never actually laid eyes on one like these before. I will post a couple of pic's later, left the camera over in the shop.

Went out to the shop and got the camera, has anybody seen a cheaper recepticle lately??

 

[cookie]

I have the same receptacles in my Bighorn. They may be cheap, but they work just fine.

Peace
Dave

 

[Bob&Patty]

YEP....look like the ones I have.

 

[rebootsemi]

Oh they will work just fine for awhile, with time and use they will fail. You load one of these with a 15 amp heater for any length of time and it will burn up. I'll have to check my NEC book to see if these would be allowed in a house. '
The hole problem is that as customers not knowing the difference we accept and let these mfg's get away with feeding us crap and thinking we are getting such a great deal. I for one will change every recepticle in our trailer. Probably set me back about $50. for parts and my time.

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

While those outlets may not be NEC approved for residential use, RV manufacturers have been using them for as long as I can remember. I really haven't had any problems with any of mine and the only reason I changed out the ones I did is because I suspected they may be at fault.
I have had 1500 watt portable heaters plugged into them as needed and never had an issue.

I'm not saying they are good or great but we get what we pay for.

 

[jimtoo]

While those outlets may not be NEC approved for residential use, RV manufacturers have been using them for as long as I can remember. I really haven't had any problems with any of mine and the only reason I changed out the ones I did is because I suspected they may be at fault.
I have had 1500 watt portable heaters plugged into them as needed and never had an issue.

I'm not saying they are good or great but we get what we pay for.

And I agree with Ray.

Jim M

 

[jayc]

You know, if you look at any trailer out there, most everything on them could be replaced by a better and improved one; tires, suspension, etc. including the electrical outlets but the fact is, the ones that come from the factory work and for some of us, they continue to work. if and when mine break, I'll replace them with an improved version.

 

[2psnapod2]

You know, if you look at any trailer out there, most everything on them could be replaced by a better and improved one; tires, suspension, etc. including the electrical outlets but the fact is, the ones that come from the factory work and for some of us, they continue to work. if and when mine break, I'll replace them with an improved version.

This sums up my Veiw also. If I wanted to pay a big price, I would have went with a full custom built coach.

 

[rebootsemi]

Another $25 or $30 dollars worth of quality recepticales would not break any of these RV builders. Where they run into trouble is they would actually have to train some of the employee's on the correct way to install them.
Quality control does not cost a company money, it makes money for the company. From what I have seen in this and other forums and RV's that I have actually worked on none of these RV builders care at all about quality control. It's all about slap them together and let the customer deal with the problems later. All you see in these forums, is water lines blowing off and flooding RV's, Cable coax ends falling off, not connected, connected wrong, water heaters not working, cheap plastic check valves breaking and flooding your brand new trailer. On any of these if you take the basement panels out and just sit back and admire how beautifully the wiring, HVAC ducts, and the plumbing are done by the well trained employee's at the factory. Oh wait it looks like they just threw the wires, dusts and tubing in there. Dealers wanted or trying to charge a customer $2K to start up a HL warranty. The problem is as I have stated before we (the customer) put up with this crap and think we are doing great.

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

Another $25 or $30 dollars worth of quality receptacles would not break any of these RV builders. Where they run into trouble is they would actually have to train some of the employee's on the correct way to install them.
Quality control does not cost a company money, it makes money for the company. The problem is as I have stated before we (the customer) put up with this crap and think we are doing great.

I agree somewhat but, after adding $25 or $30 bucks for outlets, should it end there? Probably not so where does it end? There are many many things manufacturers can do to improve quality, but at what cost?
I have no idea what it takes to run & maintain a business like Heartland's or any other RV manufacturer and be profitable. Much like running a family, we have to take shortcuts here & there to make ends meet.
Employees want more money, employee benefit costs are through the roof, suppliers are raising prices, raw materials are going up, utilities are raising the rates for electric, sewer and water, property taxes and insurance and on & on.
Bottom line for me is, Heartland is as good or better than any manufacturer in this class/price range of RV's. I agree it wouldn't take much to improve the things we've seen as a problem for years. The coax connections, plumbing leaks and fresh water fill are a few that come to mind. BUT, as you said, we see these issues in all brands. What are we, as the consumer, supposed to do? I could spend more money on a better built RV but I don't have the money. I'm cutting back to make ends meet.

 

[Riverman]

Well said Ray!
The RV you desire may be out there...you probably wouldn't like the price tag though

 

[SilverRhino]

I whole heartedly agree with Ray. When we bought our BC we were looking for the best value we could find for our dollar. There are units out there that might not have some of the problems listed, but they were out of my range. Even if they did have proper cable ends, water fill etc. , I am sure they still had their own set of problems. The problems that I have experienced with my unit, although frustrating, were simple fixes. Every RV that I have owned over the past 40 years has things that I felt needed to be corrected or done differently......nature of the beast!

No matter how much money you spend......Nothing will ever be perfect or meet everyone's expectations!

 

[2psnapod2]

To fix the items that have been brought up probably would have added thousands to the cost of these rigs. Making the fixes ourselves will only cost a few houndred. I feel the tradeoff and savings is well worth it. GOOD JOB HEARTLAND! (so far that is)

 

[TedS]

Yes, but....after all these years in business, the fundamentals should be solid. No loose wires, leak free crimps, free flowing ducts, good and complete seals.