Intermittent Lippert Level-Up operation

[Dan54]

I’ve been having issues with my Level-Up operation in my 2011 Landmark for a couple years. About 18 months ago my batteries voltage dropped to around 11 volts when I tried to raise the front to hook up. That was after the trailer had been sitting at a campground for 3 months tied into 30 amp service that was powered up the entire time. So I replaced the batteries since I figured they had to be the issue. Now I’m not so sure. With the end of the season last fall as I was attempting to pull the trailer the same thing happened.
When I dropped it off for storage I asked the mechanic to troubleshoot. He said the batteries tested good but he did find a couple loose connections he tightened up. He then tested repeatedly & it worked fine. Yesterday I arrived to pull the trailer out of storage. The mechanic had used the Level-Up when he pulled the trailer outside earlier in the day. When I powered it on it did exactly what it did in the fall. Jacks didn’t move & in a couple seconds the Level-Up powered itself down. Looked at the voltage screen & the voltage was below 12 volts.
Mechanic said there must be a unknown drain on the batteries even though the battery switch had been in the off position. We hooked it up to his golf cart which had jumpers & the voltage went up to about 17 volts on the Level-Up screen but it still would not move. He said it could be the motor or controller is aging & requires more amps as a result. That & the fact that it was in the high twenties yesterday during the time it was sitting out for 5-6 hours he thought the hydraulic fluid might have thickened making it hard to function.
It seems to me there may be a short somewhere. When we were working on it yesterday for quite a while the jacks wouldn’t move at all. He even got his towmotor out & lifted the front up to take the pressure off the front jacks. Then he tried the rear jacks & it boom started working both front & rear. So I’m at a loss. If it is a short I’m not sure how to figure out where it’s at. Mechanic said he would contact Lippert but he has other things to worry about I’m not sure when he’ll get around to it. Any suggestions? Thanks


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[Dahillbilly]

a short would have blown a fuse somewhere, I'm wondering if you have a defective control button, since all started working after the rear was activated. The 20's for air temperature shouldn't have that much effect on the ATF in the system. You can call Lippert Customer Service & they will help you out. Also the Lippert Communities App is the best place for all RV'ing concerns, products etc. They have a tab just for documents on different systems Lippert makes & training on different systems including Level up. Added bonus it's all free. Keep us posted

 

[Dan54]

Thanks for the info, I’ll give them a call


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[cookie]

You absolutely have a parasitic drain on your battery. For storage it's best to disconnect the neutral battery cable.
You level up system is protected by an auto-reset 12 volt 50 amp breaker. Follow the heavy red cable from the solenoid (Trombeta) on the level pump to the bank of 12 volt breakers. They should be covered with red boots. If you are not the original owner those boots might be missing. When you locate the breaker that the heavy red cable is attached to, replace the breaker. They are about ten bucks. Be sure to disconnect the neutral battery cable before commencing with the work.
Also be sure to check all level system plugs.
Those breakers are notorious for failing. I carry spares.

Peace
Dave

 

[Dan54]

Thanks for the input. Normally disconnect battery cable at the end of the season. Might have missed that last fall. On the breaker I could hear It resetting after the power to the Level-Up went off so I think it’s ok or should I replace it anyway?
Still doesn’t make sense to me that it would immediately fail after unplugged from shore power for only a couple minutes.


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[cookie]

For the ten or so bucks I would replace it. It's about a five minute job.
I've replaced mine and several others for the reasons you have described.

Peace
Dave

 

[Dan54]

Mechanic talked to Lippert. Their diagnosis was to replace the touchpad & the main control board. Touchpad is still available, control board is no longer manufactured. Lippert recommended a company that repairs the control boards. Will be contacting them. In the meantime for this trip will use in manual mode which is less problematic (hopefully) than auto mode. Ordered replacement breakers that should be here before we leave Sunday.


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[scayne62]

There was a relay/overload breaker (I cannot recall which) in my system that I had to beg them to take a look at, it was a known issue with weak relays/overload breaker I read about. since replaced I have had no issues with this.

 

[wdk450]

You might look into getting a small portable solar panel trickle charger to keep connected while the trailer is in storage.

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[dudkas]

Well after reading this post, I am also at a loss. I have owner a 2020 Bighorn Traveller for 3 weeks. Immediately I had issues with the Landing Gear. The previous owner told me it was the battery voltage and after I plugged the rig in the gear worked. I towed to my lot and the gear went down and the trailer auto leveled. My curiosity got the best of me and when I tried to retract the gear or bring the slides in, no go.
I talked to Heartland and then Lippert. Lots of information and we did troubleshooting for almost 2 hrs. At the end it was meeting time for the CSR, we put the rear and middle gear up manually and I am back on my own.
I called a local mobile tech in Fort Myers and he came out the next day. He put the gear down and it failed to retract. He removed power from the controller, reset the system and tried auto retract. It work...Wahoo! $260.00 for the call.
Lippert contacted me to do follow-up: Asked me to check for any loose or chafed wires. I found the terminal on the auto reset circuit breaker to be loose and after checking it with a meter, I could easily break the connection. Finally I found something failed. I changed the grey circuit breaker. Pic attached
Today, 5 days later I wanted to bring my slides in and relevel the rig. This is new to me and and am very tech savvy, but I wanted to get used to this system I tried to retract the gear and the green flashing light was showing the command was given but nothing was moving. After the command times out, the system failed with a flashing red light. I tried this again and looked at the MY RV panel and it showed the gear was moving, but it wasn't. I did what the tech showed me and reset the system. Still nothing. I noticed the power wire was stressed a bit going to the controller and I corrected that. By that time the system turned off and I turned it on again. The auto retract worked and so did the slides. Again, I found something to correct, I tried all functions 3 times and I was happy.
We went out for a couple hours tonight and when I came back I tried it again. Can you believe it, failure! This time I got a red flashing light on the outside controller pad. I press the two up/down buttons and the green light came on solid. Again, it worked. I will try it again tomorrow and I will call Lippert back.

Any suggestions would be appreciated?

 

[Roller4tan]

I believe the Hydraulics should be on its own breaker. Heartland supplies a 50amp, but some RVers (myself included) have opted for an 80 amp breaker. IMHO

 

[dudkas]

Yes, I have the 80amp breaker also. This is the resettable one with the little arm. The one I am showing is an auto resetting breaker. It's also mentioned in this same post above. I have changed it.

 

[NYSUPstater]

dudkas, looks like you have way too many items on one breaker if that is a breaker.

Our rig is still in storage for another week or so, but we switched out the hyd breaker to a 80A and a 4-8ga wire (don't recall offhand) direct from the battery to it. Only thing on this breaker is the hyd system which controls the level up and 2 slides. Thought I had some pics but cannot find them at the moment. Once I get the RV back, will take some and post.

 

[wdk450]

This suggestion is no guaranteed solution (since I have the older electric landing gear, and I level the trailer with spacer pads and the front landing gear switch using sight levels on the left front corner of the rig). You have had so many corrections with fiddling with the high current wiring connections that I would attack those all out. Your automated Level Up system is a combination of low voltage logic circuits very sensitive to voltage impulses/variations and high current motors and wiring that are great at generating these impulses/variations with less than optimum wiring. Bigger gauge wiring as suggested by other posters, upgrading all crimp connections with good soldered joints (solder goes into and bridges between the 2 joining metallic crystalline matrices - soldering ALSO seals out atmospheric oxygen and other corrosive gases from the metals), use Caig (brand) DeOxIt contact cleaner/restorer on all screw connection points. DeOxIt also goes into the 2 metallic crystalline structures to set up an optimum minimum resistance electrical contact. Caig DeOxIt is available on Amazon and E-Bay. Back in the day of larger function board/motherboard computers, H.P. did warranty repair failure rate surveys on their computers assembled with and without Caig DeOxIt. The computers treated with DeOxIt computers had like a 40% lower failure rate.

Good luck!!!

 

[dudkas]

I would really appreciate that pic and info. I see where I can run the power for the hydraulics directly to the battery. I will try that.
The pic I am showing is called
Stud Type Circuit Breakers, Lengthwise Bracket, Auto Reset (T1). I could easily get the old one to break contact. That is why it was changed it was an intermittent fail. I agree there are lots of wires and my next task is to at the least clean up this mess and clean each connection.
My concern is no matter what, I can get the front gear to extend, the failure is on the retract side and the pulling the slides in. I will post if I find anything.
I didn't mean to hijack this thread but this issues are related.
Thanks for the great advice. Steve

 

[dudkas]

Well...here is what I did today. I went and bought a new battery. I know this rig should have 2 batteries and it will in Nov when I come back to FL. Because I could see the system giving the commands to move but nothing was happening, I suspected wiring. Basically I removed every positive and ground from the battery to the HYD pump including the reverse current contactor. While doing this I also do a pull test on the wires to make sure there is a good crimp on the connectors and terminals. During my test I pulled the ground wire from the reverse current contactor to the chassis. Both not one but both connections pulled off the wire. Very little effort. Whom ever crimped these are the factory did one poor job. I removed the cable and recrimped the ring connectors the best I could. I made sure I finished what I started with the remaining wires and installed the new battery. I tried the landing gear and voila. Everything worked, Slides included.
So I will wait until tomorrow and try all functions again and again. I hope this is the fix as I am tired of working everyday on a rig that's 3 years old and I bought 3 weeks ago. I will update tomorrow. I've added a picture of the white wire that I hope fixes my issue.

 

[dudkas]

Well for the most part today was a positive day. The gear worked and the slides worked. I had to power the system for the slides by pushing the open prior to close, then the system worked great. The landing gear worked all day when I tested it a couple times. Auto Retract, then auto level. Then...failure. The controller was giving the commands to retract the gear (Green light flashing outside and command was on LCD screen) but nothing was moving. I opened the door where the Hyd and electrics are for the landing gear and slides. I just touched the power wire going to the Reverse Polarity Contactor and everything started to move. It was part way through the cycle. I re-crimped the connector and one more cycle was good.
Tomorrow I will replace the ring connector and as a precaution, I have ordered a new Contactor.

In summary, I agree with wdk450 regarding the poor crimps and quality of wire and parts. I am also a boater and will be rewiring all the heavy gauge wire with marine wire and using new ends with heat shrink. I have lots of spares from my boat. This needs to wait until November when I return to FL. Solder would likely be a better long term solution but I have the proper tools to crimp and protect the wires and ends. I also use Caig DeOxIt...I get it. Great product. I hope to one day close this thread (my part) but to help others, I will update it as I find something else. I realize I am not dealing with just one issue, I have been fixing many workmanship and product quality issues on a 3 year old rig that I have owned for 3 weeks.

 

[Dahillbilly]

I always pull/tug connecters after crimping wires on terminals & then again after the connection is made by pulling on the wire itself. Majority of crimp on connectors are made for different gauages of wire so I always check.

 

[dudkas]

My closing remarks for my issues. I finally came to the Reverse Polarity Contactor in my troubleshooting. I could actually get the failure to happen or go away with a little side pressure on the power post. I found one on Amazon for $47.00 plus shipping and the dealer wanted $163.00. That was an easy decision. I changed the Contactor in about 15 min and now everything works. I hope this will help others with troubleshooting especially when you have more than one issue,
Read and try to understand the basic operation of the system. Work your way through the system starting at the battery. Check if the controller is sending the signal as the green lights on the remote panel should flash and it should say what happening on the LCD panel. Pull test on all wires and connections. Move wires while the system is trying to move the gear or Slides. Use Dielectric on connections.
Thanks for all the input. Now it time to go back to Canada for the summer.

 

[Dan54]

Received the diagnosis from M&M Electronics, the company Lippert recommended for repairing our obsoleted control board. They say it is a microprocessor failure & cannot be repaired. Not repairable, not replaceable, not good. Maybe I can use manual mode. Is that feasible for long term use? I’ll try an Internet search, maybe I’ll find one at a salvage yard or on eBay. Are Lippert leveling systems upgradable? Maybe it can be replaced with the most current model. Probably expensive but I need to do something. It is a 2011 Landmark, still almost like new in appearance.


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