So the hunting trip is a go and of course it already snowed up in the mountains of northern Utah. I will be camping in my 2018 North Trail 28BHSS Caliber at about 8500 feet in elevation. Lately the weather folks are saying the snow line is all the way down to 7000 feet but there is a web cam on one of the lodges up there at 8500 feet and they only have traces of snow. That said the temps are from 20* - 50* daily as of now. So my question is...with temps they are now, you think it would be ok to camp with water in the tanks? Obviously its a three season camper with enclosed and heated underbelly...but with my last trailer I had I got caught in a surprise snow and the temps dropped into the teens...I froze up but only the pickup line from the fresh tank to the pump...no enclosed belly or heat below. I feel the North Trail will be able to handle these temps. Please respond with your thoughts and any experiences. Thank you.
Late third season camping...
- Thread starter cjb2283
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Lynn1130
Well-known member
There are a number of cold weather camping threads on the site that will give you more info but the short answer is "I do" and have been down to 10 above with no issues. If you have low point drains or any drain hose hanging below the coroplast be sure it is either insulated or pushed back up into the belly. Insulate your UDC because it is probably open on the bottom and cold air will freeze the lines and pump that are close to it.
We elk hunt at 8000 ft in December. The biggest problem is staying warm when outside of the trailer
We elk hunt at 8000 ft in December. The biggest problem is staying warm when outside of the trailer
So I found the Cold Weather Water Operation Manual written by Heartland owners....It made me feel a little better about my upcoming hunting trip, but I feel a lot of the input for that was from fifth wheel owners which have more better insulation and stuff. I am still two weeks out but constantly watching the weather for up there. I am hoping for a little warm up for the campers sake....this cold snap came in quite quick. If/when I go with water, I do plan on bringing my small compressor incase I have to do an emergency winterization. I can and will turn the heat up higher if it stays or gets cold...no secondary heat source will be used. I feel pretty confident in myself and the camper but it could be an expensive mistake if I don't monitor the situation and weather. Thank you for the responses and if there are more out there they will be greatly appreciated.
Domi
Well-known member
We have a 2011 NT and have been on the eastern plains of Colorado for Thanksgiving (planning to again this year unless snow stops up from towing). We feel very comfortable down to 20F with no issues. We do run the heater at night to keep the under belly warm but have not had any issues with freezing. All of our piping is internal so maybe open a cabinet door if you want to get some extra warm air down there.
One thing I did do was to make sure that my underbelly was completely sealed. You can buy some spray foam at any of the big box stores and use it to seal up any holes that are not tight already. For $5 a can it is cheap and you will need only one can (had to pull down my belly and used less than a can to re seal it). That will keeep the warm air in a bit longer near your tanks.
When we have electric we run a small heater to suppletment the big heater. The key we found is that the bigh heater should run slightly more than the small heater to keep the bleey warm.
Hope your trip goes well.
John
One thing I did do was to make sure that my underbelly was completely sealed. You can buy some spray foam at any of the big box stores and use it to seal up any holes that are not tight already. For $5 a can it is cheap and you will need only one can (had to pull down my belly and used less than a can to re seal it). That will keeep the warm air in a bit longer near your tanks.
When we have electric we run a small heater to suppletment the big heater. The key we found is that the bigh heater should run slightly more than the small heater to keep the bleey warm.
Hope your trip goes well.
John
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
If you have any low point drains hanging below the trailer, do see if you can push them up into the belly. If they are down, even wrapped in foam, they will be the first to freeze.
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danemayer
Well-known member
The PEX water lines in your coach will survive a freeze. The plastic fittings that connect the PEX lines are probably more susceptible to freeze damage. And the crimp rings could possibly loosen a bit, allowing slow leaks after a freeze. But at 20 (F), all that is unlikely. Mine have frozen at much lower temps and didn't leak. Gate valves can also freeze, but that's unlikely at 20 (F) and they will survive as well.
Don't allow water to stand in the sewer outlet and pipes leading to the sewer outlet. If that fills for any reason, you could crack those lines.
The water inlet has a check valve and that is a possible point of damage if allowed to freeze.
If your refrigerator has an ice maker or water dispenser, there's very possibly a water feed line that is exposed to outside air. That would definitely be damaged if the water isn't shut off to that line, and the water evacuated from the line.
Outdoor kitchens are susceptible to freeze damage. Faucets and p-traps in particular.
If your holding tanks are nearly full and the temps get below 20 (F) for an extended period, you could freeze the tank contents and damage a tank. But if you keep the furnace running and it doesn't get below 20, that's unlikely.
Domi
Well-known member
We are in Gunnison, Co for a week of leaf peeping. The last two morning have been 23 and 22 here at the campground. Running the heater at night we have had no issues. I have disconnected from city water but other then that we have been toasty warm.
One other thing that we do is we have Reflectix liners that we put int he windows at night (looks like silver coated bulle wrap, get thhem at Lowes). These really help keep the heat in and the cold out of the NT.
Good luck hope you have a great trip.
John
One other thing that we do is we have Reflectix liners that we put int he windows at night (looks like silver coated bulle wrap, get thhem at Lowes). These really help keep the heat in and the cold out of the NT.
Good luck hope you have a great trip.
John
So another question...instead of stuffing insulation in my outside shower, what if I blew out the lines to the shower to winterize that section of the system? Would they stay empty as long as I don't use the fixture? Or would the lines fill back up when using the other fixtures (sinks, toilet, or shower)?
danemayer
Well-known member
As soon as you turned the water back on for the rest of the coach, there would be water all the way up to the valves in the outdoor shower. To prevent that, you'd have to add cutoff valves where the shower lines connect to the water distribution.
Lynn1130
Well-known member
On top of that, if your UDC is like mine the water pump and other lines going to the inside of the trailer are just behind the wall where your connections are. Cold air comes up from the bottom of the trailer, into the unprotected UDC and that wall gets as cold as the outside temps. That means the pump and other lines freeze up. Trust me. I thawed those out several times until I figured out why they were freezing.
After several years of trial and error I found that the low points, fresh water tank drain and the UDC all need some extra protection. I have been down to 15 above for short periods without freeze ups (This spring turkey hunt I woke up to 2 inches of snow and 15 above on May 15th) but the long hours of below freezing during late November and December mean a wake up at about 2 AM when the water pump kicks on because it froze up and thinks it needs to move water in the system.
After several years of trial and error I found that the low points, fresh water tank drain and the UDC all need some extra protection. I have been down to 15 above for short periods without freeze ups (This spring turkey hunt I woke up to 2 inches of snow and 15 above on May 15th) but the long hours of below freezing during late November and December mean a wake up at about 2 AM when the water pump kicks on because it froze up and thinks it needs to move water in the system.
Silverado23
Iowa Chapter Leaders
We regularly use our NT in cold weather without issues. Most of the waterlines are inside the coach so you don't have to worry too much about line freeze ups. fresh water tank and outdoor kitchen and maybe the outdoor shower are the areas of most concern for me.
I run the furnace and use electric heat strip to heat everything.
Winterize the black tank flush.
I do run anti freeze (the Polyethylene glycol antifreeze type no alcohols) through the outside shower, outdoor kitchen and then dewinterize the lines for everything else. We don't drink water from the system typically so the antifreeze is not really an issue if there is a trace left in the lines.
Don't turn on the outside shower or use water from outdoor kitchen and so those lines would be protected by the antifreeze.
I have not had any freeze up issues with water lines unless it is a hose that was left attached and got below 25 or so overnight. only the water was slushy but otherwise no issues.
I run the furnace and use electric heat strip to heat everything.
Winterize the black tank flush.
I do run anti freeze (the Polyethylene glycol antifreeze type no alcohols) through the outside shower, outdoor kitchen and then dewinterize the lines for everything else. We don't drink water from the system typically so the antifreeze is not really an issue if there is a trace left in the lines.
Don't turn on the outside shower or use water from outdoor kitchen and so those lines would be protected by the antifreeze.
I have not had any freeze up issues with water lines unless it is a hose that was left attached and got below 25 or so overnight. only the water was slushy but otherwise no issues.
Lynn1130
Well-known member
In this particular case the OP is asking about hunting in freezing temps. My experience is that other than the generator, which runs for short periods, we don't have 120V and need the water system for showers, dish washing and COFFEE. The black tank is a necessity since freezing your butt off outside is no fun. So antifreeze in the system is a no-go and heat strips are pretty much useless without 120V.
Generally these hunting trips are dry camping.
Silverado23
Iowa Chapter Leaders
The amount of anti freeze in the system is almost zero. All your doing is running enough through the most vulnerable spots primarily outside shower valve. Once you have de-winterized the components( sink, inside showers, toilet etc) you plan to use you really can use everything but the outside shower in freezing weather.
The dump valves are all contained inside the coroplast they are less likely to freeze. I have never had an issue with black tank freeze up but adding a quart or so of antifreeze to start keeps the tanks ice free until the water volume builds up to retain heat. and you can certainly run the furnace more and not use a heat strip. I use the heat strip to minimize propane usage. I have solar panels and batteries that power my furnace using propane.
Gaffer
Well-known member
There will be water pressure at the fixture and nothing but the plastic door for insulation.
My 2013 outside shower lines froze last winter I'm sure it would mainly because they're at the end of the system and there's no water flow there I talk to the dealer about shut-off valves he said it would be a waste of time I didn't think it would be I installed them anyhow but put them on both sinks toilet and shower just in case this winter for any reason I need to shut one thing off.
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Well, I appreciate everyone’s input. The hunting trip was a bust, ended up hiking in the woods with a rifle for 11 days. Saw a bunch of animals, just not the right ones. Saw a lot of Utah’s beautiful high Uinta Mountains. As for the camper...that thing did amazing!!! First night there it got down to 18* and no issues. It snowed twice while out there. Average range each day was 20* in the morning to 50s early afternoon. Coldest I saw was about 10*. No freeze ups, no issues. The only thing I did was constantly ran the water heater and obviously the heat. I did put blankets around the bunk windows and close the curtain to kinda block off that area since it wasn’t being used. And I have the little insulated pads that go in the roof vents and reflect the heat. With the fridge, heat, and water heater running constantly, my dual 7 gallon propane tanks lasted 8 days, used my spare 7 gallon tank and ran to town quick to refill one for the last night. Ran my generator often since the heater ran quite often. Everything ran and worked great I think for the temps we had. Obviously ran the generator a bunch to charge the batteries and when I did I would use the electric water heater to stretch the propane a little. Nice to know that I am good down to 10* for a night. As long as it warms up in the day time it’s all good.
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