Lippert springs strike again

RubiconAg

Active Member
ARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!! I just got back from dropping the trailer off at a spring/axle shop to diagnose an uneven tire wear problem. After further inspection of the suspension I seem to have the same problem as everyone else. Flat, warped, under engineered springs. The owner of the shop (who specializes in large trailer repair) said this is an all to common problem that he sees and immediately noticed the Lippert tag. He said he has gone around with these guys in the past with little in the way of results. Clearly this is not a user error but a design issue. Personally it seems Heartland or Lippert needs to hire a real professional engineer to properly calculate their loads. We are a weekend warrior type family with the occasional week long trip and have 5-6k miles on the trailer in two years. You can see from the pictures below that our springs are not only flat on the slide side but very clearly warped. I will find out tomorrow if my uneven tire wear is associated with Lippert's misgivings, if so, I will be going after them will full steam. I am so peeved that we as a consumer are getting gyped like this.

Also, for the design (or lack thereof) problems I also noticed that every one of my shocks is bent at the connection to the spring plate. This is clearly a design flaw, when the springs flexes up and the shock no longer compresses the only thing it can do is bend. The geometry of this system is completely flawed. I would suggest that every Heartland owner look at their spring/shock/tread wear and let Heartland and Lippert know of their problems. I know Larryheadhunter is on a crusade to hold both of the manufactures accountable for their shotty designs.
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Oh and by the way, I have left 3 messages over the last two weeks with Heartland customer service reps and have not received a call back. When we purchased our trailer back in 08' I was an avid board member and would talk Heartland up at every park we stayed at. I now am questioning if that was right move given the problems I am facing now. We have a slightly than two year old product and are experiencing major issues with little support from the manufacturer.

Sorry for the terrible picture quality, these were taken with the camera phone, I will be getting better ones tomorrow.
IMG00192.jpg

Here is the bent pair..
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<O:p</O:p<O:pThe rear spring is warped badly.
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All four of my shock studs are bent.</O:p
<O:pIMG00191.jpg</O:p<O:p</O:p
 

boatdoc

Well-known member
Same old story, same old song & dance. My SECOND set look like that right now, maybe not as flat. Can't wait to hear from Henderson's line-up at the Oregon rally.
 

Ricoh

Past Ontario Chapter Leader
I can't believe these guys have not been sued along with Heartland. Someone is going to get badly hurt or worse. I will keep an eye on mine for sure. I had 7 of 16 loose nuts on mine. Good luck with getting some help.

Rick
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
Sorry you guys are having these problems. I agree something seems to be wrong. Because of stories like yours, I am watching my suspension very closely. As I move the RV as needed or take it on trips I am checking it at each set up/down. I get under the axle area, torque the U-Bolts and carefully study the springs. I also am doing what was suggested on this forum, that is, pull the RV back and forth several feet before dropping the landing gear. When I first heard this suggestion I thought it was not needed - I was wrong ! I just installed a new hitch and king pin. I was checking the clearance by making tight left and right turns, almost jack knife. I had the windows down and was concerned with all the noise I was hearing. I actually stopped got out and look for something broke, I believe it was the leaf spring stack popping from stress. It turns out when I moved the rig the tires were skipping kind of like when a vehicle is in 4 wheel drive. I also was digging really big holes in my stone driveway, I was surprised. I mentioned this to my wife and she told me our previous TT did it worse... I believe it's caused by geometry and unavoidable. I did not leave the trailer at right angles for very long, just a few minutes.
I have attached photo's which clearly show my tires were twisted - a lot.

This puts tremendousView attachment 8601 strain on the suspension, but I don't know how to avoid it. I do believe this strain may be a big cause of spring failures.View attachment 8600
 

tmcran

Well-known member
Is this a problem seen more on the LM,BC, and BH? My Sundance springs still look ok after about 7000 to 8000 on them.
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
TC, it seems to be more prevalent on heavier RV's. Even though my last TT was big for a TT I never experineced failure even though according to my wife the wheels twisted and flexed more. I could be wrong, but I believe an entirely different suspension system may need to be designed to eliminate our problems. Maybe something with freewheeling independent hubs. That is something the experts in that field need to think about. Not trying to be critical, but, something needs to be done for ALL big rigs, not just HL's. JMO
 

Tankie

Well-known member
I just had Henderson install the CP system on my 3670RL yesterday. They took those sorry excuse for shocks that were all bent on the lower end and were rubbing against my tires. They are looking for a new set of springs for me since the new set Lippert sent out are headed for the same shape as the 1st ones. They are going to move the upper shock mount and stand that thing up where it belongs. I think it maybe time to seek legal help with this problem.
I too have tried to talked to Lippert and HL and I am not getting any reply. How can you install a shock that rubs the tire which may be causing some tire failures.
This is truely a sad story time after time. They have a horrible designand if you do not fix it cause they won't then you are putting your families and everyones elses lives indanger!
 

SilverRhino

Well-known member
I've been closely following the reports and discussions on the suspension components. I carefully check my springs, u-bolts and tires before I hook up to the truck each time.

Maybe I have missed it, but has HL or Lippert ever explained the reasoning or engineering behind the decision to mount the shocks so close to a horizontal position?? I plan on taking mine into a local spring and frame shop to have the shocks remounted, as I don't believe they serve any purpose, other than possibly ruining tires.
 

bytor

Member
Hey Tom,
I'm from Reading. Is there somewhere in Particular you like to have your Heartland serviced and or Suspension/frame work done. I
am out of Warranty and besides that, the dealer(Boat-N-RV)I bought it is no longer a Heartland Dealer.
I don't have any issues now but I would like to have
a plan just in case.

Thanks for the input
 

wal_mart

Active Member
Just a note. shocks should never be installed on such an angle as what heartland does. You would be better advised to remove them.
 

RollingHome

Well-known member
Andy, 2 places I'm gonna hit. 1 in Christiana, PA. (off RT 41 who builds trailers) and 1 in Avondale, PA (off Rt 41, also) who does heavy truck/trailer work and has some huge rigs in their 'waiting to fix area'. The other alturnative is to haul the monster into Philly and hope for the best. I am going to monitor the underside on my own and the first sign of serious trouble hit the spring shop in Delaware County near Philly ( I forget their name). I'm not sure what else to do, but if I have a problem, I think I need help from others that know more then me. I am not an expert in this field at all. But, I will post to help others.
 

caissiel

Senior Member
I have done a spring replacement on my trailer and nothing improved because the 7000lbs springs are flat at the axles when not loaded. Lippert never informed me of that, and I could have seen that by just jacking the trailer on the frame.
I had a loose left rear spring and the center bolt broke and the axle slipped back at least 1 inch. I alway watch my tire wear and on the Florida trip (2000 miles) the tires were doing great.
Lippert send me heavier and thicker plates and u-bolts (9/16"). I replaced the springs and the curvature of the new springs are the same as the old ones. So I am repaing the bad spring and will keep them for spares that I carry 2 off all the time since 13 years ago. In addition I did relocate the shock's top location so as to have an ideal 60deg angle from the horizontal.
So far so good as I came back from Florida a 2000 miles trip.(Original angle was 28deg.)

The rear springs on the previous trailer were also bad for failures untill I installed lighter springs on the 5000Lbs axles. The springs were minus the stubby short ply, that caused the spring plies to break at that location. Due to the fact that they were 4 ply, the other 3 plies were stress at the short ply end location. The last set of rear springs lasted 8 year, and about 50000 miles.
The 3/4 tons trucks here, according to the spring shop around here, have a tendency to break plies when not loaded. When I bought my 98 2500 GM I was told to keep a watch on my springs. Well my truck never had a chance to be unloaded to much because most of the mileage was done with a load on. My conclusion on the truck problem is that springs break on the return as much as being loaded. The shock condition have a great responsibilty in the survival of springs.

Our trailers and SOB's to are fully loaded, and have the axle under the springs, contrary to other service trailers that are underhung springs with the U-Bolts helping the spring, and thighten with the load on the axles. In addition there is no bump stops to prevent the springs to bend back when hitting rough roads, that we have lots of here in the north. Also our shocks are next to none existence, and the SOB's have none anyway, at least Heartland is trying. When our springs are loaded the spring has to bend back because the load and u-bolt torque stress both act on the spring, contrary to help support the spring load.
I could never figure why I broke rear springs and never front ones on the other trailer. But it seam the the rear axles were loaded differently due to tracking the front axles causing different forces. I cannnot remember changing a front spring on the previous trailer, also flat tires alway happened on the rear axle, both sides.
 

westxsrt10

Perfict Senior Member
Sorry to see the leaf spring problem on your heavier units. I don't think I'll have those issue with my Sundance XLT because its so light but I still decided to make 2 changes to beef up the suspension. I should have the 'Bump Stops' installed in a few days.
1. Properly installed gas shocks
2. Add 'Bump Stops' above axle plates (on order)
 

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jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
I am being helpful by letting folks know that there is an alternative to spring suspension.
 

Tankie

Well-known member
The M-R IS is a very nice upgrade but not everyone can afford it. IMO I should not have to spend that much money just to get my BH to go down the road safely, after I spent as much as I did on the unit in the 1st place. I chose to go with THE CP because I wanted the ride to be smoother, I did not buy it for SAFETY.
The design of the shocks and springs is flawed and Lippert and/or HL need to step up to the plate and fix this issue. If it was just one or two every once in a while then it would be different, but this seems to be inventory wide.
My question to Lippert and BH is why do you expect your customers to fix your mistake?
I know that some have been lucky enough to have this pop up when it was still under warranty, I say good for you. You where one of the lucky one's but for many that is not the case.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
I just had Henderson install the CP system on my 3670RL yesterday. They took those sorry excuse for shocks that were all bent on the lower end and were rubbing against my tires. They are looking for a new set of springs for me since the new set Lippert sent out are headed for the same shape as the 1st ones. They are going to move the upper shock mount and stand that thing up where it belongs. I think it maybe time to seek legal help with this problem.
I too have tried to talked to Lippert and HL and I am not getting any reply. How can you install a shock that rubs the tire which may be causing some tire failures.
This is truely a sad story time after time. They have a horrible designand if you do not fix it cause they won't then you are putting your families and everyones elses lives indanger!

Tankie:
Regarding the new springs. I had the springs/equalizers replaced while I was on the road in Eugene, Or. last summer. I had the work done at Carrier and Sons ( http://www.carrierandsons.com ) who had a local spring supplier in the area fabricate the springs. Maybe you could contact them and Henderson's could get you the springs from there, in Oregon.
Good luck, and inspect your equalizers for weld quality.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Hey Tom,
I'm from Reading. Is there somewhere in Particular you like to have your Heartland serviced and or Suspension/frame work done. I
am out of Warranty and besides that, the dealer(Boat-N-RV)I bought it is no longer a Heartland Dealer.
I don't have any issues now but I would like to have
a plan just in case.

Thanks for the input

Sir:
I don't know Penn. geography too well, but you might try the RV service Reviews website for previous RVers input. Here is the Penn. link:
http://www.rvservicereviews.com/StateList.asp?state=PA
 
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