Loaded question - No battery installed

[Ace11]

can you plug in shore power without installing the batteries ? - What precaution should be taken if it is. possible ?

 

[Garypowell]

I am sure some expert will chime in....but I believe the charging system installed in the unit needs to have a battery as a buffer. And, I believe it has to be a viable battery.....not some warn out junker.

 

[Gaffer]

Why would you want or need to?

 

[TedS]

Yes you can. Just make sure the battery charging wires are isolated, not touching each other or the chassis.

 

[danemayer]

can you plug in shore power without installing the batteries ? - What precaution should be taken if it is. possible ?

Yes you can plug into shore power without installing the batteries. But as noted, you must make sure the cable that attaches to the positive terminal is secure and cannot contact anything. It will be carrying 12V DC as soon as you plug into shore power.

You also need to be aware that towing without a battery is dangerous. The breakaway circuit that powers the brakes requires a battery be installed in the trailer. If the trailer were to separate from the truck, without a battery, nothing would stop the trailer.

Another consideration is that high current 12V devices like slideouts, landing gear, and leveling system all require the batteries. They MAY work off of shore power without a battery, but they may not.

And finally, if there's a power outage, you will immediately be in the dark. And the refrigerator, water heater, and furnace will all stop working. If you have a battery, you'll get through most power outages.

 

[TravelTiger]

Yes you can plug into shore power without installing the batteries. But as noted, you must make sure the cable that attaches to the positive terminal is secure and cannot contact anything. It will be carrying 12V DC as soon as you plug into shore power.

You also need to be aware that towing without a battery is dangerous. The breakaway circuit that powers the brakes requires a battery be installed in the trailer. If the trailer were to separate from the truck, without a battery, nothing would stop the trailer.

Another consideration is that high current 12V devices like slideouts, landing gear, and leveling system all require the batteries. They MAY work off of shore power without a battery, but they may not.

And finally, if there's a power outage, you will immediately be in the dark. And the refrigerator, water heater, and furnace will all stop working. If you have a battery, you'll get through most power outages.

Dan, would turning off the breaker to the converter keep the cables from being energized while the battery is missing?

Just curious because at some point we want to upgrade our batteries. We'll have to take the old ones with us to trade in when purchasing the new, or pay additional fees. I was wondering if the whole rig would have to be totally without power while we did this, and it sounds like no.


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[danemayer]

Dan, would turning off the breaker to the converter keep the cables from being energized while the battery is missing?

Just curious because at some point we want to upgrade our batteries. We'll have to take the old ones with us to trade in when purchasing the new, or pay additional fees. I was wondering if the whole rig would have to be totally without power while we did this, and it sounds like no.


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Yes, turning the breaker off would cut power to the battery cable. But with that and no battery, you would not have any 12V DC lights, the A/C and furnace wouldn't work. And if you have a gas absorption refrigerator, it wouldn't work. And depending on which type of water heater you have, and how Heartland wired it, that might also not work. And anything powered from the buss bar near the batteries wouldn't work. Also, no power to start an on-board generator, although you probably need batteries for this anyway.

If you have a battery cutoff switch, that would cut power to the battery cable without any of those drawbacks, except probably the generator.

 

[TravelTiger]

Yes, turning the breaker off would cut power to the battery cable. But with that and no battery, you would not have any 12V DC lights, the A/C and furnace wouldn't work. And if you have a gas absorption refrigerator, it wouldn't work. And depending on which type of water heater you have, and how Heartland wired it, that might also not work. And anything powered from the buss bar near the batteries wouldn't work. Also, no power to start an on-board generator, although you probably need batteries for this anyway.

If you have a battery cutoff switch, that would cut power to the battery cable without any of those drawbacks, except probably the generator.

Ah! Ok, thanks Dan, that helps. We have no intention of moving without the batteries. Just want to exchange them without losing power to all things DC. In our case, no generator in the equation, run fridge and HOt water heater on electric.


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[danemayer]

Ah! Ok, thanks Dan, that helps. We have no intention of moving without the batteries. Just want to exchange them without losing power to all things DC. In our case, no generator in the equation, run fridge and HOt water heater on electric.


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On the fridge and water heater, even if running on electric, you could still have a problem. I think the Dometic and Norcold refrigerator control boards need 12V to do anything, including electric operation. The water heater is a more complicated situation. Atwood water heaters use a control board that runs on 12V DC to manage a single thermostat and probably to operate the electric element. While Suburban units don't need the control board for electric operation, I think some of the recent model year coaches may have 12V relays that activate the 120V to the water heater.

Bottom line: if you take away all 12V power, you're pretty much in a comfortable hard-sided tent.

 

[TravelTiger]

On the fridge and water heater, even if running on electric, you could still have a problem. I think the Dometic and Norcold refrigerator control boards need 12V to do anything, including electric operation. The water heater is a more complicated situation. Atwood water heaters use a control board that runs on 12V DC to manage a single thermostat and probably to operate the electric element. While Suburban units don't need the control board for electric operation, I think some of the recent model year coaches may have 12V relays that activate the 120V to the water heater.

Bottom line: if you take away all 12V power, you're pretty much in a comfortable hard-sided tent.

Yes, I understand. It should only be for 2-3 hours, in our case.


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[wdk450]

Ah! Ok, thanks Dan, that helps. We have no intention of moving without the batteries. Just want to exchange them without losing power to all things DC. In our case, no generator in the equation, run fridge and HOt water heater on electric.


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Since you are using the plural word for batteries, I would assume that you have more than 1 in your system. You could swap them out 1 at a time (2 trips) to keep everything running during the switchout.

 

[TravelTiger]

Since you are using the plural word for batteries, I would assume that you have more than 1 in your system. You could swap them out 1 at a time (2 trips) to keep everything running during the switchout.

Maybe for some that's a good idea, but we are an about an hour drive (one way) from the Sam's Club where we intend to buy them. I want to make ONE trip.


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[dlw930]

Maybe for some that's a good idea, but we are an about an hour drive (one way) from the Sam's Club where we intend to buy them. I want to make ONE trip.


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If you're concerned about the core charge credit on the old batteries, you might be able to take one of the old batteries with you to Sam's, buy 2 new batteries, then get the core charge refund on your next regularly scheduled trip to Sam's. I've done this at Wally World, so I'd guess Sam's might let you do it also.


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[TravelTiger]

If you're concerned about the core charge credit on the old batteries, you might be able to take one of the old batteries with you to Sam's, buy 2 new batteries, then get the core charge refund on your next regularly scheduled trip to Sam's. I've done this at Wally World, so I'd guess Sam's might let you do it also.


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Good idea, I'll look into that!


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[Bogie]

Y

Another consideration is that high current 12V devices like slideouts, landing gear, and leveling system all require the batteries. They MAY work off of shore power without a battery, but they may not.

Though I don't have specific facts about the current rating of the converter that charges the battery, I think there is a very real possibility that operating the high current items such as those Dan suggests could create an over current condition in the converter and possibly damage it. I don't think I would try operating these.

 

[Lou_and_Bette]

Erika, can you "borrow" a battery from another vehicle or friend and put it in as you remove the first battery and then remove second battery. This would keep you energized until you got the new batteries?

 

[danemayer]

Since the trailer will be left on your site and connected to shore power, just switch the battery cutoff to OFF and you'll be fine with the batteries removed.

 

[Roller4tan]

Operating without a battery would be "similar" to having the 12v breaker trip, the one with the elusive reset button.

 

[Ace11]

This was like a science project ! ! ! - I have my Big Horn on a permanent site - was just wondering if going without Batteries was a possibility - Thank you to all for the expertise

 

[danemayer]

This was like a science project ! ! ! - I have my Big Horn on a permanent site - was just wondering if going without Batteries was a possibility - Thank you to all for the expertise

TravelTiger's concern was over a few hours while getting new batteries. If you take them out for a longer period, keep in mind that in a power outage, nothing in the trailer will work. You'll be completely dark and won't have any appliances.