Mounting Refrigerator Automatic Halon Fire Extinguisher

[wdk450]

Gang:
I have just ordered an automatic RV refrigerator Halon Fire extinguisher from RV Cooling Unit Warehouse. I am wondering what is the best way to install these? I am thinking of placing it lying down in the dead space above the refrigerator (now filled with insulation batting) above the burner assembly. I believe that Halon is heavier than air, and with this mounting the entire refrigerator compartment should be reliably flooded with halon fire extinguishing gas, especially in the burner area, a primary ignition source. Also, this highest spot should get the hottest and reliably trip the thermal valve for the extinguisher. Or should it be physically closer to the burner assembly?

 

[danemayer]

Sounds like a great question to put to Mac the Fire Guy.

 

[jbeletti]

kakampers (Ken and Kathy) has one from Mac. Kathy may weigh in on this when she sees it tonight.

 

[TandT]

Bill,
I have thought about getting one.
Where did you buy it and how much did it cost? Trace

 

[kakampers]

Mac had us mount ours right next to the cooling unit....we just used zip tie to secure it.

 

[ramdually4100king]

Halon is heavier than air. It will also flow out of the fridge vents so if the underlying problem (ie. gas leak, short) is not found or fixed immediately there could be re-flash.

 

[priorguy]

I'm also a Fire Alarm and Extinguishing agent Technician. Halon is usually released above the fire, like in a computer room from the ceiling. Unfortunately Halon has been Illegal in Canada for many years due to Ozone depleting properties, but it is still the best at putting out fires. I see they sell three different options. Which one did you purchase?

 

[wdk450]

Bill,
I have thought about getting one.
Where did you buy it and how much did it cost? Trace

Trace:
I bought mine from RV Cooling Unit Warehouse ( http://rvcoolingunit.com/ ) who I have dealt with before on Dinosaur P.C. boards. They mention Mac The Fire Guy on their website, and I think these are the same products that Mac sells, so I would infer that there is a business relationship between them.
Or you could just buy directly from Mac The Fire Guy (Who had a booth and presentation at the Gillette 2012 National Rally) : http://macthefireguy.com/

The RV fire photos on these websites are scary.

 

[mattpopp]

Halon for the most part use to be used for Engine Fires on Boats(Vessel) as part of their automated systems. Far as i remember it has not been in production since the 80's. So i dont think these "Halon" systems are truely halon.

but with that said, Halon displaces the oxygen extremely fast and you will suffocate from it.

Seems like a really bad idea using a Halon system in a RV. If the system triggers for whatever reason I hope you and the kids can get out quick enough.


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[priorguy]

mattpopp, the Halon systems listed are compartmental based local or direct extinguishing systems. They do not fill the entire RV. Just the fridge, battery, generator, or whatever compartment they are installed in. In the industry, many types of systems have been discontinued for the reason you mentioned. Total Oxygen depleting. Many now are combinations of nitrogen/argon/CO2 that lower the oxygen content of the room below combustion requirements, but remain high enough to sustain life. This requires the rooms be "air-tight" and volume calculations be done. Due the nature of RV's and other vehicle's compartments, these clean agents would not work. Halon is still the best application. There are many other gases, liquids, powders and foams on the market but in tests halon still outperforms for extinguishing fires, and there is no cleanup afterwards.

 

[mattpopp]

mattpopp, the Halon systems listed are compartmental based local or direct extinguishing systems. They do not fill the entire RV. Just the fridge, battery, generator, or whatever compartment they are installed in. In the industry, many types of systems have been discontinued for the reason you mentioned. Total Oxygen depleting. Many now are combinations of nitrogen/argon/CO2 that lower the oxygen content of the room below combustion requirements, but remain high enough to sustain life. This requires the rooms be "air-tight" and volume calculations be done. Due the nature of RV's and other vehicle's compartments, these clean agents would not work. Halon is still the best application. There are many other gases, liquids, powders and foams on the market but in tests halon still outperforms for extinguishing fires, and there is no cleanup afterwards.

Are you sure its not Halotron rather the Halon? But Halon only works while present. It's not a good choice for chemical or electrical fires. As once your supply of Halon is out a electrical or chemical fire more then likely will restart unless used in a sealed environment. As which it will keep the Halon present.

But I don't believe these systems that y'all are referring to use real Halon. More then likely its something like Halotron or similar to it.


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[kakampers]

Mine says Halon right on it!

Just checked Mac's site...it's a 1lb canister of Halon 1211...can be mounted horizontal or vertical and was designed specifically for Norcold refer compartments, but can be used in any small enclosed compartment.

 

[priorguy]

It's not the original Halon 1301 for fire extinguishing, but another mixture 1211. I haven't done much research as both are illegal in Canada. I found these formulas online. Incidentally, any Halon we remove from buildings is sold to the US military as it is illegal to produce Halon 1301 on North America but it can still be recycled in the US.

Bromochlorodifluoromethane, also known by the trade name Halon 1211, or BCF, or Halon 1211 BCF, or Freon 12B1, is a haloalkane with the chemical formula CF2ClBr
Bromotrifluoromethane is an organic halide with the chemical formula CBrF3. Alternative names are Halon 1301, R13B1, Halon 13B1 and BTM

For more information look up the Montreal Protocol for Ozone depleting substances.

 

[wdk450]

Regarding the not supporting life claims, I believe that - No 21% oxygen in the air, the bodily "fire" of metabolism goes out. But I remember a story I heard in the Navy in the early years of Halon use, telling of a classroom of firefighters learning about Halon, who were told by the instructor to hold their lit cigarette lighters up in the air, the instructor shot a small burst of Halon across the room, and all of the lighters went out, with no harm to the firefighters.

 

[TandT]

Bill,
Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.
I didn't make The Fire Guy presentation when we were in Gillette. Trace

 

[wdk450]

I found this website that answers most all Halon fire extinguisher questions: http://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm

 

[porthole]

I'm using the SS 30 Halon, angled head from Mac.Mounted horizontally at the base of the fridge. Don't expect it to do much more then knock down an incipient fire at the fridge burner.
Don't even know if it will work. But it is better then nothing and requires no user intervention, which is best if you are not trained to fight fire.

Halon is still around because there is no way to economically and safely dispose of it. So it is recycled, as in these mini extinguishers.
It is an extremely effective fire fighting agent, but it puts holes in the ozone layer, so we don't make any more.

It works by breaking the chemical reaction of fire, not by displacing the oxygen.

 

[priorguy]

Regarding the not supporting life claims, I believe that - No 21% oxygen in the air, the bodily "fire" of metabolism goes out. But I remember a story I heard in the Navy in the early years of Halon use, telling of a classroom of firefighters learning about Halon, who were told by the instructor to hold their lit cigarette lighters up in the air, the instructor shot a small burst of Halon across the room, and all of the lighters went out, with no harm to the firefighters.

That's the way Halon works, I asked a senior tech in my company and it is the by-product after Halon has extinguished a fire that is poisonous. The replacement "clean agents" displace oxygen to a level that supports life but not combustion. They release in a 30% concentration to lower oxygen below 15% to 12.5%. Combustion is no longer possible, but life is sustainable short term. Most of them are a mixture of inert gases like Co2, Argon, and Nitrogen. Deep sea diver use Nitrogen to prevent the bends at extreme depths I believe.

 

[wdk450]

If anybody looked at the Halon site I cited in a previous posting on this thread, you would see that Halon production stopped in 1994, but I guess they had lots of it stored, because that pre-Montreal accords supply is what they are drawing from now, and they don't see any shortages in the forseeable future. Agreed it is REALLY tough on the environment, but fire extinguishers are life-saving device, that are rarely used (if they stop training discharges), and Halon has been proven to be a superior extinguishing agent that works in low concentrations (8%), in a mechanism totally unlike any other fire extinguishing agent. The site also says that it is totally safe and non-poisonous (along with its byproducts). Here is the link again, it is worth reading for intelligent discussion of the whole Halon question:

http://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm