My SECOND broken axle

[ihsolutions]

Well, it happened again.

When my coach was only 3 months old, I broke an axle. See the store here. Lippert made it right, sending Jerry (great guy BTW) out to my house to fix it, just in time.

I'm not even attaching pictures this time, because the exact 100% identical same thing happened as before.

Fast forward 15 months, November 4, 2011. I leave Michigan and head south with the family to Orlando, FL to see the mouse. We stayed at the Ft. Wilderness Resort. Fabulous! Anyway, as I'm driving through the campground (windows down) I hear a metal-on-metal noise. I get into my site, and feel the brake drums. Burned my hand on the back ODS drum. Infrared thermometer indicates 600 degrees F. Ouch!

A little further inspection reveals I have, again, broken an axle. The one that Jerry replaced last year. These are the 8,000 pound axles that I paid EXTRA for, not the standard 7ks. I also have the larger drum brakes.

My blood starts boiling immediately, wondering how far I drove on a broken axle, jeopardizing the lives of myself and others on the road. After calming down, I made the call to Lippert. I have them saved in my cell phone. That's not a good thing. I'm on my 5th set of springs, so we all know each other well.

After a half hour on hold my phone dropped the call (bad reception in the CG). Now I'm really angry. So, I calmed down, then called Heartland and talked to Eric and Jim Fenner. These guys are great. You get so much more honey with bees than vinegar. Be nice to them, and they will do their best to help you.

Finally got a hold of Lippert, who apologized for my troubles, and shipped two new axles, brakes, shoes, bearings, springs, shackles, etc, down to a trucking service company in Orlando who came out to my campsite and replaced everything. I didn't even have to miss time at Disney.

When I got back to my site, all the work was done. Only problem is, Lippert sent the WRONG springs again (they sent 7k springs). This makes the coach sit much lower, unlevel while towing. I'm so irritated. Of my 6 sets of springs I've had on this coach, FOUR have been the wrong ones. How can this happen? I figure they are just going into the computer and sending the same part number as before, each time they replace them. The guy at Lippert tells me, he entered the correct part number, but the packer must have grabbed the wrong ones and that it's "out of their control". Huh???

Also, the axles continue to use the same crappy design as before. And they keep failing. I don't know what to do. My wife doesn't even want to use the RV anymore, she has no confidence in the axles, etc and is afraid it's going to get us all killed. While I think that's extreme, I can't say I blame her for feeling that way.

Heartland has been fantastic throughout this process and I can't thank them enough! Lippert has been OK, but just continues to repeat mistakes. To their credit, they fix things in a timely manner, but in my opinion it shouldn't be happening in the first place.

SO, the big question: How do you convince your spouse that everything's going to be OK, and get back on the road? Anyone wanna buy a mint 2011 with brand new axles and brakes? (j/k)

 

[boatto5er]

Not sure how to calm down the spouse. I haven't had a lot of success with that even after 36 years of marital bliss. However, it would seem to me that there is a systemic problem beyond axles and springs. Something is causing them to break WAY above normal expectations (two 5th wheels over 3 years and we haven't had any axle/spring issues [knocking on wood as he types]). I know others have though, so it is not a singular issue. If I were in your shoes, I'd have the frame and alignment thoroughly checked at a reputable frame and/or spring shop to make sure everything is in alignment. Also, review your load. Is there anything especially heavy in your basement or living area? Or is the load out of balance. Just a thought on a couple of things to check. Hope you get this resolved to your and the spouse's satisfaction.

 

[TravelTiger]

I'm no expert, but based on the info I've gleaned from other's experiences with Lippert parts, we went with Dexter for our axle/spring/brake upgrade. Of course it was on our dime (just out of warranty, bent axle). We did have the rig checked for proper alignment, and we are good. Only time will tell. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results doesn't seem to be working for Lippert.



Erika

 

[ihsolutions]

The coach weighs in at 13,200 as loaded for a trip. 2,700lbs of that is pin weight, leaving 10,500 pounds of weight to be carried by two axles rated for a combined load of 16,000. That's a huge margin of extra capacity.

I'm pretty confident there are no alignment issues. My G614's are wearing perfectly after a lot of mileage. The 7k springs naturally go flat because they are the wrong ones (shorter length) and one less leaf.

Oh, and I drive like a grandma, never turn super sharp, hit potholes etc. not sure how it could possibly be anything I am doing.

 

[westxsrt10]

Appears the better heaver axle and brake combo is causing the axle tube to twist more during braking. (called axle wrap) There are a few things that can be done to prevent "axle wrap" like traction bar mounted under the spring pack, horzional shock mounted to frame. A easy fix could be just welding the U-bolt to the axle @ the inside bottom of the axle. Better welds on the new axle saddle to spring pack will help also.

 

[ihsolutions]

Interesting. I cannot understand why the 8k axle supports the entire weight of the coach on four very small pieces of steel with very small welds to the side of the axle tube. Instead of a saddle that "wraps" around the axle in a semicircle, welded the entire way. The guy at Lippert explained this to me by saying, if they built them the same way as the 7k, it would crush the axle tube due to the extra weight. Not sure I buy that. Not sure I'm qualified to have an opinion, either.

 

[branson4020]

Interesting. I cannot understand why the 8k axle supports the entire weight of the coach on four very small pieces of steel with very small welds to the side of the axle tube. Instead of a saddle that "wraps" around the axle in a semicircle, welded the entire way. The guy at Lippert explained this to me by saying, if they built them the same way as the 7k, it would crush the axle tube due to the extra weight. Not sure I buy that. Not sure I'm qualified to have an opinion, either.

No qualifications required to have opinions, just ask my DW. But my BS detector is really screaming right now.

 

[westxsrt10]

Interesting. I cannot understand why the 8k axle supports the entire weight of the coach on four very small pieces of steel with very small welds to the side of the axle tube. Instead of a saddle that "wraps" around the axle in a semicircle, welded the entire way. The guy at Lippert explained this to me by saying, if they built them the same way as the 7k, it would crush the axle tube due to the extra weight. Not sure I buy that. Not sure I'm qualified to have an opinion, either.

So he's saying the 7k's don't have a saddle and 8k's do is making sence to me. I think the issue is the 8k saddles are NOT welded correctly...what I see is they are just attached to the axle with heavy tacks, not welded to any specs. You are likely correct stating it's just the weight of your unit is causing the saddle welds to break.
Any compident weld/fab shop can fix those poor quailty welds. I wish you were nearer as I would weld them for you.

 

[branson4020]

I thought the Lippert guy was saying that the 7K axles have a saddle and the 8K don't? Whats the wall thickness of the axle tubing anyway?

 

[DougS]

ihsolutions!
Your post scares me. I too am one of the lucky ones. I have had 4 bad axles and two lost wheels. Now I have 8k axles, and I thought my axles problems were just a bad dream, but maybe not. I had just stopped watching my axles from the mirrors, I guess it's back to watching the axles. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for a check from Lippert for lost tire and rim. Good luck, at least DW is a good place to be broke down, top of a mountain in NM not so much.

 

[lwmcguir]

There is really somthing wrong here. A bunch of us out there have the same axles and no problems to speak of for the 100's that are on the road. I try to drive very carefully as well but occasionaly somthing gets hit. Last trip a pallet fell off an oil field truck just ahead of us. Missed it with the TV but the coach got in with both axles at 65 MPH. Hit pretty hard but not problems except for minor scratches and scrapes underneath. Our should be similar to the ones failing which are similar to othere we used to run on the stock trailers and flat beds. We moved up to slipper springs and HD axles as well as Torizon style to minimize the maintenance. It would be good to hear the reason Lippert says these axles failed. I broken a lot of trailer parts hauling heavy loads out of the ranch on trails but never broke an axle. Bent a few until we saw the light and went HD all the way. I pull the Augusta with 8K axles and don't have a single worry by then I havent ever been in the same situation. We need to hear the rest of this based on an Engineers view point. My axles look like this and the arrangement seems to holding up well after three years.

I would certainly be pushing Lippert for more answers regarding what actually caused the failures.

 

[ihsolutions]

lwmcguir,

I have the same Lippert 8k axles as you. On all the ones I've had, including the current ones, the "perch" (where the springs sit atop of) does not actually touch the axle tube. It sits about 1-2mm above the axle. Therefore, all the weight of the entire coach is placed upon those four small 1" welds on each axle. On mine, when they broke, those welds sheared right off. It reminded me of many of my early soldering jobs, where there was no flow or penetration of the solder between the two things I was attempting to join.

Still, my suspicion is that it's the twisting rotational force of the brakes that is causing these to break. That's only a theory.

And Doug, I COMPLETELY understand what you're talking about watching the wheels in the side mirrors. I feel like I'm more likely to crash into someone while making sure my axles didn't break! Four axles? Are you kidding me?

 

[ihsolutions]

One other comment I picked up from Eric at Heartland. He said he's had more calls about 8k axle problems than he has 7k axles. That is particularly ****ing evidence of their failure rate, given that most (90%+ in my estimation) of our coaches shipped with the standard 7k's. Even if his anecdotal complaint ratio was 50/50, that still means the 8k's fail ten times more often than the 7k's.

As a business owner myself, I'd be EXTREMELY concerned about product liability with these things. Why aren't they addressing the root cause? Not to mention saving a bunch of money fixing people's stuff. I can't imagine what they spent to fix mine. 346lbs of parts shipped 2nd day air, plus two mobile truck service technicians for 5 hours, plus the cost of the parts. Ouch. I'd be figuring out how to build a better axle if I were them.

 

[JohnDar]

This might answer your question. Too much reliance on computer simulation and not enough hands-on, let's beat it until it breaks testing.

http://www.lci1.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=172&Itemid=102

 

[lwmcguir]

Makes one wonder if the support brackets should have a recall and be welded more substantially? HL and Lippert both need to weigh in here and offer some advice on what to do or Lippert should have a recall. Seems like it may be the 2010/2011 production runs but again they could verify that.

 

[jbeletti]

Hey guys,

I want to weigh in on this just a bit. I am not qualified to make engineering judgements on any of this mechanical stuff, but I do want to let you know that Heartland has heard you. In fact, Heartland has heard others, long ago on such matters.

I don't have dates and VINs as to when exactly this occurred, but over the last 24 months or so, Heartland has switched over to using Dexter axles, springs and brakes on the following products: Landmark, Bighorn, Big Country, Cyclone and Road Warrior.

Since making this supplier change, we've seen far fewer issues.

Of course, this doesn't change anything for those coaches with Lippert axles, springs and brakes. But I felt it important to at least let the Heartland community as well as prospective buyers know that Heartland does listen and change can and does occur as a result.

Jim

 

[Wharton]

When we ordered our trailer 2 years ago Heartland was still using Lippert and all you read about were problems with springs, axles, shocks etc. Our previous trailer had Mor/ryde and we just decided to put on Mor/ryde as part of our new trailer expense.

Once you start having problems you lose confidence in the product. I would bite the bullet and go with Mor/ryde or Dexter. The money will spend will be well worth the peace of mind.

 

[wdk450]

Hey guys,

I want to weigh in on this just a bit. I am not qualified to make engineering judgements on any of this mechanical stuff, but I do want to let you know that Heartland has heard you. In fact, Heartland has heard others, long ago on such matters.

I don't have dates and VINs as to when exactly this occurred, but over the last 24 months or so, Heartland has switched over to using Dexter axles, springs and brakes on the following products: Landmark, Bighorn, Big Country, Cyclone and Road Warrior.

Since making this supplier change, we've seen far fewer issues.

Of course, this doesn't change anything for those coaches with Lippert axles, springs and brakes. But I felt it important to at least let the Heartland community as well as prospective buyers know that Heartland does listen and change can and does occur as a result.

Jim

Jim:
I hope you recruit Dexter to come to the 2012 Rally to do suspension (and maybe disk brake) upgrades for us older coach owners.
BTW I am looking at doing an equalizer upgrade (I plan to start a thread for recommendations). My experience and web research has found that the TrailAire Equaflex which was standard on my rig (without wetbolts) cost $500, TrailAir Centerpoint is about $2500 installed, MorRyde SRE 4000 rubber block equalizers are about $500, and the Dexter Rubber Absorber system that Heartland currently uses (WITH Wetbolts and bushings) is ONLY $186!! Lippert wants $86 just for the wetbolt/shackle/bushing kit! Dexter claims to be better than Equaflex with shock sensor recordings on their website (http://www.dexteraxle.com/equalizer_comparison).
Sorry, I couldn't remember how to PM you .

 

[porthole]

If you were going to spend as much as that trail air center point I would jump over to the MOR/ryde IS (for about the same price).

 

[jbeletti]

Jim: I hope you recruit Dexter to come to the 2012 Rally to do suspension (and maybe disk brake) upgrades for us older coach owners...

Bill,

Having upgrades like this done at a rally is more than I am comfortable with doing. It's Heartland's intention to have rally service for the very first time, at an "away or on-the-road" rally. It's my "hope" to have Lippert and Dexter represented there for:
1) Minor service
2) Maintenance seminars

With rallies of this size, it's literally all we can do to make it to every coach for a couple of minor service adjustments.

Sorry Bill and looking forward to seeing you in Gillette!

Jim