Need Some Truck Opinions

[rustyshakelford]

I have a question for ya'll. This has been eating at me for the last two days.

My new 2011 ram 3500 longhorn is a lemon. I have been unable to tow the trailer for over a month due to extreme power loss both loaded and unloaded. The dealer has been unable to diagnois the problem and that has accounted for one trip to the dealer out of 9. I bought the truck around may and have 10k on it with about 6k towing.

Ram offered to buy back my truck and replace it with something that has the same MSRP or lower. If its more expensive, I am responsible for the difference. Here is where the rub is, to build the exact same truck, im looking at $1100 out of my pocket due to the increase in MSRP. I dont feel that I should have to pay this. I want same truck (maybe add 4.10s but I would pay for that difference) and dont feel that I should have to pay anything addtional out of pocket. With the truck being down, I am loosing literally thousands of dollars by not being able to do my part-time job of land clearing/dirt work since I cant haul equipment. Truck has been having the powerloss issues since Sept too.

I had a meeting with the DM for ram this week and pleaded him my case about the extra on the msrp. His position was that he was already doing alot for me and that they were not going to put me in a "nicer" or "better" truck than i have on their dime. I just want what I have! This blew me away! I will never buy another ram product again.


As of now, my plan is to order a 2012 3500 crew cab longhorn, but without any of the options I have now. The same day I will be ordering a 2012 F-350 dually lariat. When the dodge comes in, I will immediately take it to the ford house and trade it in. Im going to obviously loose money on the trade but still have a decent amount to put down on the ford so that the payment will increase no more than $40 per month.

What is everyones thoughts? Am i being unreasonable expecting ram to do the right thing. I would think ram would bend over backwards to make sure the customer was happy after this nightmare of a truck.

brett

 

[hoefler]

You did get some use of the truck, that is what they are seeing, being very little at that. The courts would not give you 100% either, plus you would have attorney's fees and such if you went that way anyways. That equates to $0.11 per mile, you couldn't rent anything for that, and you would get more than that on your income taxes as well.

 

[danemayer]

If you're in Texas, you may have leverage through the Lemon Law.

You might be able to get an exact replacement, or a full refund - but in either case there may be a deduction or charge for your mileage on the lemon.

Second, using a new vehicle as a trade-in may not work out well for you financially. Even though new, the Ford dealer is going to give you a dealer trade price that is substantially lower than the purchase price. Even if you don't drive the new Dodge, the fact that it was titled to you makes it a used vehicle and it'll be sold on the used car lot at the Ford dealer. It won't be sold for as much as a new vehicle, and they'll be paying commission and other expenses that need to be recovered.

You might want to take them up on their offer of a new truck, but ask to pay the price difference at the factory price level, rather than on the MSRP. The price change at MSRP level includes manufacturer, distributor and dealer profit. I don't see any reason that the distributor and dealer should get additional profit on this deal.

 

[rustyshakelford]

The problems started at 500 miles. They mentioned they were doing me a favor by waiving the usage fee's.

I understand about paying for my usage but I think I covered that by paying my note. I have looked into the Texas lemon law but it has the potential to drag on for 5 more months. I need to get back on the road!

On trading it in, they are giving me 2-3k less than the advertised sale price. Total would be about 12-13k off original msrp. Granted not a stellar deal but I was willing to take a lot less then dodge wasn't trying to fix it. It's becoming a matter of principal to me now. I do not want to drive their truck and advertise for a brand that's willing to loose a customer over a grand. I'd rather pay a lawyer and get what's right instead of paying them more to get what I have.

Brett

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

Remember, this is an opinion. I think I would take the 2012 Dodge and keep it. You have to consider the length of time and miles you've used.

You would lose a lot of money on the trade but you might be able to get an overall good deal on the Ford if that's what you really want to do. I've seen 2012 F350 Lariat Duallies on the web here in the Orlando area for $47K

 

[rustyshakelford]

Maybe I am being overly critical about the usage. I only had 500 problem free miles. Since then it was one thing after another and trouble on the road. The truck nearly ruined our Colorado trip when the 4wd stopped working after being at the dealer 3 times for it! I don't feel I owe them anything except for 500 miles or use since that's the only time it ran right.

I appreciate everyone's input so far!

Brett

 

[GOTTOYS]

$1100 bucks for 10,000 miles is the best bargain you're ever going to get. If the truck was really THAT bad how did you manage to get that many miles on it? You also have to take in account the fact that with zero miles on it you still lost money when the title went into your name. You are willing to assume that loss if you get a new one and trade it in, so you must be willing to assume that loss on the one you presently have. I would get a replacement, drive it, if it works out fine. If you still don't like it trade it off for something different. If your new one has 5,000 miles on it when you trade it won't be worth any less than if it has 150 miles on it...Good luck with whatever you decide. JMHO...Don

 

[jayc]

I've gotta agree with Don. Take the Dodge trade and drive it. The new HO Dodge is equal to any other truck on the market now, but if you're still not satisfied, you can always make the trade for another brand. Look for a demo, factory truck, repo, etc. to make the best deal.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Ok. Thank y'all!

I drive the truck because I don't have anything else to drive. I get 11 mpg on the highway so we take my wifes car a lot.

I'm going to order the truck I want and drive it. If it performs as advertised then I will be happy. So ram gets another shot. I just wish they could fix what I have since it's what I want and doesn't cost me anything but ram wants the buyback too. They haven't been able to figure out what's wrong.

Brett

 

[PUG]

I've had Chev and Dodge both and like the Dodge best mainly because of the engine. If you can swap and make a reasonable deal like you have eluced to then that should be good. Did you ask them about literally swapping a new engine in instead? I have seen that done with a Ford engine that was el junko. I have heard the new Ford engines are pretty good but the older Navistar/International engines I would stay clear of.

 

[danemayer]

You're certainly justified in feeling outraged that they can't fix the truck, but if you pursue a better deal as a matter of principle, you might just end up with less than you're being offered now.

Keep in mind that Dodge can also decide to do nothing and let you file a Lemon Law Complaint. Their liability in this situation is probably defined by the Lemon Law. If you go to a lawyer, I'd guess you still won't get more than the Lemon Law requires. You may even end up with less because more time and mileage has gone by.

 

[scott b]

Brett, i had the same problem with Dodge, call me on my cell and i will tell you how it went for me . I won my case . My cell is 619 -204-5252...Scott

 

[westxsrt10]

$1100 for a new truck? What a deal! Take it and run.

 

[porthole]

Brett, just some thoughts. New truck for $1100 isn't a bad deal. How do the taxes work in Texas. Are you just making an $1100 payment and paying tax on that or will you be paying tax on the "sale" price?

If you do order both trucks, why not have the Ford dealer do the work, that way there is no title to you, just a swap from dealer to dealer. Most dealers work trades all the time. That is how they get the color you want in a couple of days without having the vehicle on the lot.

I haven't done any research on the 11 and 12 Rams, have you looked into the 2012 changes-improvements?

I suppose, due to the finances involved, this will not be just a simple "buy a new truck"

That all said, I'm still happy with our DRW F350. Only did 4000 miles pulling the Cyclone this year, but it did a stellar jog doing it. And it has been a very comfortable ride (bit bumpy though unloaded)

 

[porthole]

You also mentioned something about the 4.10 axle. If you go Ford DRW you have 2 choices:
F-350 with a 3.73
F-450 with a 4.11

Axle ratios are no longer an option. With the torque though of the 2011 model, and pulling a heavy trailer, I don't see the need for the 4.11

 

[kakampers]

NO!! You are NOT being unreasonable. Back in 1994 we bought a brand new GMC Safari Fan, relatively stripped down model. From day-one it had a bad vibration, that even the techs from Detroit could not diagnose or repair...SOOO...after a three month battle and 3 days prior to our appointment for arbitration...GM bought the truck back for almost $2,000 MORE than we paid for it (loss of use and inconvenience) and helped us locate a much nicer Safari van and arranged the new financing. The difference they paid us, paid for the upgraded version.

I'd tell them what you want (and deserve for your trouble and loss of use) and then file for an arbitration hearing...they count on 90% of people "caving" and just trading out....hold your ground and get what's fair. When they know your willing to follow thru to the end, they become much more willing to "deal".

 

[rustyshakelford]

Brett, just some thoughts. New truck for $1100 isn't a bad deal. How do the taxes work in Texas. Are you just making an $1100 payment and paying tax on that or will you be paying tax on the "sale" price?

If you do order both trucks, why not have the Ford dealer do the work, that way there is no title to you, just a swap from dealer to dealer. Most dealers work trades all the time. That is how they get the color you want in a couple of days without having the vehicle on the lot.

I haven't done any research on the 11 and 12 Rams, have you looked into the 2012 changes-improvements?

I suppose, due to the finances involved, this will not be just a simple "buy a new truck"

That all said, I'm still happy with our DRW F350. Only did 4000 miles pulling the Cyclone this year, but it did a stellar jog doing it. And it has been a very comfortable ride (bit bumpy though unloaded)

its going to end up being $1500 plus $94 for taxes. This will not even include the sunroof. i will not beable to have the dealer order both and swap them. i have looked into that. baiscally, i will pay the difference in the trucks and then they will swap the vin numbers for the financing. the terms, length and payment will remain the same.

I would much rather have a new ford. they are awesome! i dont know why people are buying the cummins right now instead of the fords. the power difference is massive and the payload numbers are big

You also mentioned something about the 4.10 axle. If you go Ford DRW you have 2 choices:
F-350 with a 3.73
F-450 with a 4.11

Axle ratios are no longer an option. With the torque though of the 2011 model, and pulling a heavy trailer, I don't see the need for the 4.11

im getting 4.10s for the dodge to help it out and to get the higher tow capacity. the 3.73s can only tow like 13k or something as a dually. the 4.10s are 19k or there abouts. if i was getting a ford, i would go with 3.73s

NO!! You are NOT being unreasonable. Back in 1994 we bought a brand new GMC Safari Fan, relatively stripped down model. From day-one it had a bad vibration, that even the techs from Detroit could not diagnose or repair...SOOO...after a three month battle and 3 days prior to our appointment for arbitration...GM bought the truck back for almost $2,000 MORE than we paid for it (loss of use and inconvenience) and helped us locate a much nicer Safari van and arranged the new financing. The difference they paid us, paid for the upgraded version.

I'd tell them what you want (and deserve for your trouble and loss of use) and then file for an arbitration hearing...they count on 90% of people "caving" and just trading out....hold your ground and get what's fair. When they know your willing to follow thru to the end, they become much more willing to "deal".

this is exactly what i was thinking, unfortionately for me we have been without a properly working truck since sept and need to get back on the road and back to making money. i think i am getting a reasonably decent deal but considering the cost i have incured and the headaches that dodge should be a little more flexable and absorb the extra 2k. normally i would be willing to ride this all the way to the end, but i need a truck that will run and dont have the time or energy to be screwed around anymore.

This will be my last dodge truck ever. their customer service has been disgusting and i hope i can deter from someone else making the same mistakes as myself and save them the trouble

brett

 

[mmomega]

the F350 DRW with 3.73's is rated at 17,500lbs for "bumper" towing and 21,500lbs for fifth wheel/gooseneck towing.

...I just looked at the RAM towing pdf straight off of their website and wow.... one page states 30,000 lbs towing yet when you click to read the towing PDF it shows nothing near that number and it only shows 2012 models. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction for better info.

* Actually now that I go looking again. GMC shows their 3500HD with 22k fifth wheel towing. Those numbers were not that high when I was truck hunting a couple months ago and they still have the same engine and frame and HP/TRQ ratings. I guess Ford upped their numbers once so GM and Dodge had to as well.

 

[rustyshakelford]

the F350 DRW with 3.73's is rated at 17,500lbs for "bumper" towing and 21,500lbs for fifth wheel/gooseneck towing.

...I just looked at the RAM towing pdf straight off of their website and wow.... one page states 30,000 lbs towing yet when you click to read the towing PDF it shows nothing near that number and it only shows 2012 models. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction for better info.

* Actually now that I go looking again. GMC shows their 3500HD with 22k fifth wheel towing. Those numbers were not that high when I was truck hunting a couple months ago and they still have the same engine and frame and HP/TRQ ratings. I guess Ford upped their numbers once so GM and Dodge had to as well.

rams website is terrible to find tow ratings. all they have is for the 2500. for the truck that i ordered, its supposed to be good for 19k+ or there abouts. but somehow its got a 30k gross? one bad thing is that the truck can only weight in at 12k while the ford is 13.3k if i remember correctly.

are yall going to be at the spring rally in april? if so, were in spot 56

brett

 

[porthole]

From the Ford 2012 towing guide, 2011 is almost the same
2012 Ford towing

Conventional
F-350 17,500
F-450 17,500

5th wheel
F-350 21,500
F-450 24,500

GCWR
F-350 30,000
F-450 33,000

For 2011 and 2012 the only difference besides price on the 350-450 is the axle ratio (axle housings are the same) and the front axle width.

I don't have my CAT slip handy, but I seem to recall my truck came in right about 10,000 pounds with an almost full fuel and gear load. My tool box (empty) and roll up cover add 250 pounds alone.