No power in Rig

MdMike

Well-known member
I hook my Elkridge 5th wheel up to 120vac power when parked at home. Today I came home from a trip (no problems on the trip) and after unloading the camper I went to plug it back in and the GFCI outlet I use popped of. I checked everything to be sure there was nothing on. Tried a different outlet and same thing.

I swapped all the cords same thing.

Finally I turned off the main and all of the breakers. plugged into the GFCI on the house and it did not go off. Turned on the main and it did not go off. Turned on the breakers, one at a time. Had the GFCI on the house trip 2x. 1 when the converter breaker was turned on and the other when I turned on the GFCI breaker in the camper.

I am looking for some ideas.... Any help is appreciated.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Hi Mike,

I'd start by checking the extension cord that you're using and the adapters to make sure they're still in the same condition as last time you used them. Also make sure you have the power cord secure in the trailer receptacle.
 

MdMike

Well-known member
Danemayer

Cords are good. Power will come into the unit if I turn off the breakers for the GFCI outlet and the Converter... I guess I need to look into those two items a bit more. Not looking forward to the work since it will be 90 outside tomorrow with 85% humidity....
 

Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn

Well-known member
I had a 2006 KZ Toy Hauler, with 50amp adapter to 120 and had it plugged in to my outside 15amp GFCI outlet for 10 years and never had a problem. Then brought home the new LM 365 and it popped every time I tried it. So I ran a short extension cord up to another plug up on the side of my house that is on a switch from inside for Christmas lights. NOT GFCI and all worked fine.
I decided it was time to run a 50amp service around to the RV like I've always wanted. Now I can run all 3 A/C's and everything else I want. I got DW on board of how wonderful that will be to not have to run the Generator to run the A/C's when we're packing and unpacking and we can keep the A/C's set at a set temp so it never gets to hot in there. She said OK. Well on the way to the RV we passed though the garage and ROCKED IT with 3 220 30amp plugs for the compressor and welders and 3 120 20amp dedicated plugs for small welder and grinder. put a few more GFCI plugs and 6 nice 4' Florissant. Man I'm in heaven. LOL
So tell Peggy you need to run 50amp service to her RV....

Back to the real issue. This is my untechnical explanation.
My electrician said the new RV's with 50amp service and transfer switches is to much for a 15amp GFCI.
He also said something about a 50amp reduced down to 120 throws back a current that trips the GFCI. (This was a few months back so I might not be explaining that correctly)

IF it worked before You could try replacing your GFCI and see what happens.
Just wanted to share my experience with this same issue .
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Jess:
Just a little addendum to what your electrician told you FYI. A Ground Fault Interrupter (usually found in an AC outlet, but not necessarily) measures the amount of electrical current flow in the hot wire to the load, also measures the amount of current in the neutral wire returning from the load, and compares the amount of the 2 currents. If these values are different by 4 to 6 1000's of an ampere (4-6 milliamps) the GFI ASSUMES this missing return current is going through a persons's body electrically shocking them, and turns of the electrical current by almost instantaneously turning off an electrical relay. This assumption of a person being shocked is very often not true, but this safety device assumes the worst case scenario.

Other things can cause the leakage of electrical current (usually to the protective ground wire) within an electrical device, tripping the GFI. I once stayed in a campground near Seattle, and at the time they were near full, so the only space I could get had power provided by a 15 amp GFI outlet. All was well overnight, as I very critically watch my electrical current consumption on a less than 50 amp supply. The next morning I cooked something in the microwave for a couple of minutes, then a few minutes AFTER microwave cooking the GFI outside tripped. I troubleshot the problem down to condensation moisture in the microwave oven from the food that formed a leakage current path from hot to ground within the microwave. Air drying the microwave out for a few hours got rid of the GFI trip.

In my career as a hospital biomedical equipment technician checking all corded devices for leakage was a daily chore. Electrical safety standards in the healthcare industry are extremely tight to prevent electrical accidents on patients with wires on/in their bodies lying on metal grounded frame hospital beds. The standard for patient care equipment is 10 microamps of leakage (10 millionths of an ampere). When the earliest personal computers and personal computer-based medical devices arrived on the scene in hospitals, they were ALL failing the 10 microamperes electrical leakage standard. I did and "autopsy" on one of these first PCs, and found that it had an included power line noise filter (required by the FCC to minimize digital noise being radiated back into the AC power distribution system). Unfortunately, this standard filter design used on MOST ALL line powered digital devices still today uses what we call a split capacitor - 2 capacitors, 1 connected between the hot wire and ground and one capacitor located between the neutral wire and ground. Capacitors pass alternating current, the lower the AC frequency, the less they pass. But even at the extremely low frequency of 60 Hertz that we use for AC power in the U.S. these filter capacitors pass enough AC current to exceed the 10 microamp medical device limits. Hence the filter manufacturers had to come up with a class of "Medical Grade" power line filters which omitted the split capacitors to meet the medical leakage current requirements sacrificing some reduction of radiated digital AC power noise.
BTW, your battery system converter/charger is most likely a switched mode DC power supply, using digital pulses of AC power to produce the regulated DC power for your 12 volt system most efficiently. So I would expect it to have the split capacitor filter. Switched mode power supplies are also found microwaves, computer power supplies and TV's.

Last of all, in my 65 years of life I have seen many technological changes. I remember as a kid as I read my local hometown newspaper daily and many times a year reading of people being electrocuted with ordinary AC power accidents. As the GFI's came online and became required by electrical code, I realized that I was reading about less and less of these electrocution accidents. The linked article on GFI's (a VERY good article in my opionin) cites a reduction of consumer electrocutions from over 600 in the U.S in the late 1960's to 280 in the 1988. It's been almost 30 years since 1988, and I would think the accidental electrocution by consumer devices figure must have been going down more and more since then. Here is the link: http://ecmweb.com/content/think-gfci

I hope this wasn't too long-winded, and helps someone with understanding GFI's and the potential problems with them. It might also help anyone in a hospital bed with feeling more secure that the hospital biomeds and engineers out there are looking out for their electrical safety.
 

Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn

Well-known member
WOW !!! Thanks for that info..
So it probably is something in his RV tripping it and not a bad GFI then ?
I think his RV is a 2011 which make me think it worked before but not now.
Is that true Mike ?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

MdMike

Well-known member
WOW !!! Thanks for that info..
So it probably is something in his RV tripping it and not a bad GFI then ?
I think his RV is a 2011 which make me think it worked before but not now.
Is that true Mike ?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I have 120 volts coming from the GFI on the house. When I connect to the camper it trips off.

I turned off the Main Breaker in my panel as well as all of the other breakers. I turned on the Main and the GFI on house did not trip. Slowly I turned on the remaining breakers in the camper one at a time. The Converter breaker would trip the GFI on the house. I turned the Converter Breaker off. I reset the GFI on the house and continued turning on the remaining breakers one at a time slowly. When I turned on the GFI breaker for the camper it tripped the GFI on the house. In essence when I turn on the converter or the GFI breakers in the camper it trips the GFI on the house.

I am preparing to start checking all of the other outlets, starting with the GFI in the bathroom. Then I will pull the wall from the inside of my front storage to acxcess the converter and see where that leads me.
 

MdMike

Well-known member
So today I checked the GFI outlet in the bathroom. It functioned so long as the breaker in the panesl box for the converter was off. I tested the voltage across the Bathroom GFI and got 115v.

I then moved the wall in the understorage compartment and unplugged the converter. I turned on all of the breakers to include the converter breaker and this time, with the converter detatched it did not trip the GFI from my house power supply.

I checked the voltage on the converter outlet and it was 115v.

So I am guessing that the converter itself is bad??

Looking for some further advice. If anyone has any please chime it!

The questionS I need answered are: Is this problem the converter? And if so, Should I buy something other then the original equipment? If something else is more reliable, What should I buy (Brand Name and input/output of unit)?

Thanks again!
 

danemayer

Well-known member
With converter off, check voltage at the GFI outlet:

If you see something like

Hot to neutral = 114.8
Hot to ground = 115.0
Neutral to ground = 0.2

you're leaking voltage and the house GFI sees the loss as a problem.

You may have high resistance on the neutral wiring. Perhaps a loose connection at the trailer power receptacle, or at the automatic transfer switch if you have one.

But you may just have too long an extension cord, especially if it's a 14 gauge. Or your adapter could have a loose internal connection.

Sometimes you just need to try a different adapter and cord.
 

Attachments

  • grounded outlet.jpg
    grounded outlet.jpg
    12.8 KB · Views: 20

MdMike

Well-known member
This is all a new problem. Been plugged in this way for years. Voltage has always been the same with the outlet on the house and on the camper. The cord run is only 25' and is a 10 guage cord.

The issue goes away when I unplug the converter under the steps. The voltage stays consistant thru out the rig and the outlet attached to my house. I am more inclined to believe it is the converter.

As soon as it is plugged in it trips the GFI on the outlet on the house. Unplugged, it goes away.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
Is this problem the converter? And if so, Should I buy something other then the original equipment? If something else is more reliable, What should I buy (Brand Name and input/output of unit)?

Thanks again!

I would say that since you have to go through the hassle of replacing the unit . . . might as well put a better one in than the original.

I've never had to replace one of those, so I'm no help in what brand to get, however.
 

Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn

Well-known member
Sounds like your converter has a small short in it. Did you try plugging the converter directly it to the home GFI without the rest of the coach plugged in to see what happens ?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
What Jerrod said would be the acid test. If it trips the GFI diagnoses over and you need a new converter.
 

MdMike

Well-known member
Sounds like your converter has a small short in it. Did you try plugging the converter directly it to the home GFI without the rest of the coach plugged in to see what happens ?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I did think of this but it has the 125 volt type plug on it and my outlets do not.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
I did think of this but it has the 125 volt type plug on it and my outlets do not.

You'd have to go to the hardware store and buy a 20 amp receptacle and a 15 amp plug and a little wire and build yourself an adapter.
 

MdMike

Well-known member
Anyone have any idea what might be wrong with the converter? It is the only thing in the camper that tripped the GFI on my receptacle on the house. When I removed it it stopped. Does the cooling fan run on DC or AC? I seem to recall it running.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Mike,

Someone else was asking about Converters today and I noticed this statement in the Progressive Dynamics 9200 manual:

GFCI PROTECTION ... INTELI-POWER 9200 has the LOWEST ground fault leakage. With this unit, the user
can confidently utilize the RV's AC outlets without being concerned about a ground fault interruption of the
facilities power source.

Here's a link.
 
Top