No power to multiple outlets. Resolved.

[wyleyrabbit]

Hey everyone,

I need some help troubleshooting a power issue that started right after lunch today. We were eating lunch and the string of LED lights we have plugged into the outlet near the stove turned off on their own. Everything else seemed fine. My wife got up and turned the lights back on and they worked fine. After we did the dishes, she turned them back off. A half-hour or so later, she tried to turn them on and they wouldn't turn on. At this point the microwave also turned off.

And so began the troubleshooting. I thought that perhaps our converter had blown a fuse, so I emptied the basement and took off the service panels. Killed power to the trailer by turning off the 50A breaker on the campground pedestal. Pulled the fuses on the converter, and both 40A fuses were fine. I replaced them wither brand new ones anyway, just in case. Powered everything up, same thing. Microwave didn't work. TV, fireplace, a/c, central vac, and other circuits seemed fine. Noticed other things not working. No water heater power, so only running that on gas. Fridge only works on propane.

We've turned off all of the breakers, and turned each one on individually. No improvement. I thought that maybe something was up with the campground power, so I tried plugging in to the 30A plug instead of the 50A. For a while, the microwave circuit worked, but then stopped working after a while; unplugged, then plugged back in and the microwave worked again for a while then stopped, and it didn't seem to matter whether we used the microwave or not.

Read online that sometimes there can be a problem with the GFCI outlet, and if it's not working properly then all sorts of chaos can result. Went into town, picked up a new GFCI outlet and a multimeter. Got back, turned all the power off, replaced the GFCI outlet with the new one, and no improvement.

Most of the plugs in the trailer are giving me 121.5 V, but the ones that aren't working are putting out about 8 V.

For what it's worth, with the power off, I tried continuity testing a few outlets. The working outlets were either infinite resistance or close to it. Interestingly, the one closest to the kitchen sink has resistance of 7.5 ohms?!? Could this be a hint to our problem?

It's beginning to get dark, and since the fridge is running on propane, I'm done for the night. Bottom line, multiple circuits have no power, others are completely fine.

Can anyone offer any troubleshooting tips or wisdom? Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

[rxbristol]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

I'm not an electrician, but it looks like you've lost one of the legs for your 50 amp circuit. It could be at the plug, where the cord connects to the RV, distribution panel, or transfer switch (if you have a generator prep). It doesn't look like a neutral problem, but it may be a lost ground. You have power for a while until the circuit heats up because of a power draw and then it opens through expansion. A potentially dangerous situation due to arching. I'm sure those with more experience will chime in.

 

[danemayer]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

Hi wyleyrabbit,

The water heater and microwave are usually on their own individual circuit breakers. If so, those two circuits would have completely independent wiring between the circuit breaker panel and the device. So I would expect you'll be looking for a failure that affects multiple circuits.

I'd suggest taking a close look at the shore power cord connection to the trailer to make sure it's fully engaged and locked and there's no sign of damage at either end of the cord.

If you have generator prep, there's an automatic transfer switch near the Power Converter. There could be a problem inside. Proceed carefully if going into the transfer switch.

You may also have a problem on the back side of the circuit breaker panel. Check both L1 and L2 connections and the Neutral wire to make sure it's tight.

If you're opening the automatic transfer switch and/or the circuit breaker panel, I'd suggest disconnecting shore power completely before starting. Inspect for loose or damaged wires. If everything looks ok, carefully restore power and check voltage on L1 and L2 to Neutral and then to ground. Also the voltage reading across L1 and L2 should be 240V.

When working around the 120V wiring, I start with a non-contact voltage tester to make sure the enclosure and any junction boxes are not hot. You can get them at most hardware stores. Skip the $10 models and get the $20 version.

 

[rahewett]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

Hi wyleyrabbit,
I happen to be an electrician and agree with danemayer. I just had the same sort of thing happen to a custom and it was on the power supply coming in. Double check the pedestal power to see if both legs are working and equal. If they are, check your cord. It sounds like a lost leg.

Sent from my XT1093 using Tapatalk

 

[Roller4tan]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

If the circuits that don't work are on a slideout, check underneath for a junction box and any loose or burnt wire connections inside, after disconnecting shore power.

 

[wdk450]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

Hey everyone,

I need some help troubleshooting a power issue that started right after lunch today. We were eating lunch and the string of LED lights we have plugged into the outlet near the stove turned off on their own. Everything else seemed fine. My wife got up and turned the lights back on and they worked fine. After we did the dishes, she turned them back off. A half-hour or so later, she tried to turn them on and they wouldn't turn on. At this point the microwave also turned off.

And so began the troubleshooting. I thought that perhaps our converter had blown a fuse, so I emptied the basement and took off the service panels. Killed power to the trailer by turning off the 50A breaker on the campground pedestal. Pulled the fuses on the converter, and both 40A fuses were fine. I replaced them wither brand new ones anyway, just in case. Powered everything up, same thing. Microwave didn't work. TV, fireplace, a/c, central vac, and other circuits seemed fine. Noticed other things not working. No water heater power, so only running that on gas. Fridge only works on propane.

We've turned off all of the breakers, and turned each one on individually. No improvement. I thought that maybe something was up with the campground power, so I tried plugging in to the 30A plug instead of the 50A. For a while, the microwave circuit worked, but then stopped working after a while; unplugged, then plugged back in and the microwave worked again for a while then stopped, and it didn't seem to matter whether we used the microwave or not.

Your troubleshooting involves 2 power systems - The 12 Volt DC output of the converter/charger, and the 110 Volt AC power distribution system. Your LED lights should be working off of the 110 VAC system, as is the microwave oven. From your description of where the LED light outlet is, I would assume that both the LED outlet and the microwave are in the kitchen slide. The microwave should have its own circuit breaker, different from the one for the outlet. The outlet may be on the GFI outlets chain. The possible common thing in these 2 circuits is the slide cables/hoses flex strip and wiring interconnect boxes under the trailer. Look for frayed/damaged exposed wiring, and take off the connection box covers and inspect the wirenut wiring connections inside. Re-do the wirenut wiring connections if there is any doubt about their quality. Good luck!!!

 

[wyleyrabbit]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

Thank you everyone for your help and advice. We're still not out of the woods yet on this one, but I now have more information.

We have shore power coming in on 50A from the campground. With power on, we have 120.5V between black and ground/neutral, 120.5V between red and ground/neutral, and 241 V between red and black. That's as measured on the binding posts on our TRC 50A surge protector, shore side. Load side (trailer side) has all the same readings. Output of the surge protector goes into the automatic transfer box.

Inside the transfer box, we're getting the same readings above on the "shore side" of the transfer box, but...and here is where I think my problem is, we're getting different results on the load side exiting the transfer box. I should note that while we do have the gen prep, we do not have a generator. The readings on the trailer side of the inside of the transfer box are:

• red to ground = 120.5 V
• black to ground = 56 mV or really, 0 V
• red to black = 120.5 V

I powered everything down and loosened and tightened all of the wires that were in the transfer box, thinking that perhaps there was a loose connection in there. After powering up, all of the readings remained the same.

I'm certain that the issue is that the black leg coming out of the transfer box has essentially 0 V coming off of it.

Now what can I do?

 

[Jarhead]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

I would like to suggest that you do a through test/check of the neutral circuit.
This summer while on a trek to Alaska, we had a similar electrical problem. I found the neutral contact lug nut on the main relay burnt. We were miles from nowhere in northern British Columbia so I ran a 14 gauge jumper wire across the neutral contacts on the relay. For the rest of the trek, I always plugged into 30 amp service even though 50 amp may of been available. I suspect that the nut holding the lug somehow came loose or was never really tightened properly, thus the overheating and burning.
Since arriving back home, I've replaced the relay and all is well.
Please be overly cautious while working on or around high voltage. Disconnect and use visual, smell and continuity testing.

 

[jnbhobe]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

If it were mine I would eliminate the transfer switch since there is no generator and no plans for one.

 

[pegmikef]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

If it were mine I would eliminate the transfer switch since there is no generator and no plans for one.

Me too. Replace it with a junction box.

 

[danemayer]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

Thank you everyone for your help and advice. We're still not out of the woods yet on this one, but I now have more information.

We have shore power coming in on 50A from the campground. With power on, we have 120.5V between black and ground/neutral, 120.5V between red and ground/neutral, and 241 V between red and black. That's as measured on the binding posts on our TRC 50A surge protector, shore side. Load side (trailer side) has all the same readings. Output of the surge protector goes into the automatic transfer box.

Inside the transfer box, we're getting the same readings above on the "shore side" of the transfer box, but...and here is where I think my problem is, we're getting different results on the load side exiting the transfer box. I should note that while we do have the gen prep, we do not have a generator. The readings on the trailer side of the inside of the transfer box are:

• red to ground = 120.5 V
• black to ground = 56 mV or really, 0 V
• red to black = 120.5 V

I powered everything down and loosened and tightened all of the wires that were in the transfer box, thinking that perhaps there was a loose connection in there. After powering up, all of the readings remained the same.

I'm certain that the issue is that the black leg coming out of the transfer box has essentially 0 V coming off of it.

Now what can I do?

You'll have to repair/replace the transfer switch. If you don't have a generator, you might take the incoming 3 shore power wires and try putting them on the generator input side of the transfer switch. If the problem inside the switch is on the shore power contactors, that may bypass the problem and let you operate normally.

If that doesn't work, as a temporary fix, you can pick up large butt splices that handle AWG #6 wire and bypass the transfer switch. Some big box hardware stores may carry them. A Lowes near us has them. Electrical supply stores should also have them.

Wrap with a bunch of layers of good electrical tape. Note that electrical tape is not a substitute for enclosing splices in a junction box, so it's no more than a very temporary approach.

You don't want to continue in the current degraded state for very long. If you lose the neutral contact, you could damage appliances.

 

[jnbhobe]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

We did away with the transfer switch on an 08 Bighorn in Urbana,Va a couple of years ago, It was a real team fix but ti worked.

 

[wdk450]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

You MAY be able (all power sources disconnected) to open up the transfer relay box, remove the transfer relay, and file all relay contacts with a thin flat swiss file. This is probably where the open circuit in your black wire circuit is occurring. Best fix would be to replace the relay, a part number for it may be on a tag (or directly printed) on it. If you find a part number, try doing a Google search on that number to find a replacement.

What brand of Transfer relay is it? We have some manuals in the Tools tab on any forum page.

 

[wyleyrabbit]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

I'm pleased to report that we're completely up and running now.

In case anyone else runs into the same situation, here were the steps I took to resolve the issue:

1. Did some basic troubleshooting up to the point of guessing that the GFCI may be at fault.
2. Replaced the GFCI outlet with a new one, and when that didn't solve the problem did some more troubleshooting.
3. Once I was stuck, came on the forum and begged you guys for help.
4. Waited, watched a movie with the family, had some popcorn, slept.
5. Woke up and read the replies here on the forum.
6. Got to work. I started by disconnecting all power. Note: our surge protector, transfer box, and converter are all in the same area of the basement, behind the removable wall.
7. I pulled the trailer side of the cable out of the transfer box, and closed it all up.
8. I disconnected the cable from the load side of the surge protector, which used to run into the shore side of the transfer box.
9. Whoever installed the wire into the transfer box when the trailer was built didn't do a great job and left large gaps in the insulation that could have shorted out, so I snipped the cable and re-did it a bit further back. I carefully inserted each wire into the surge protector and screwed them in.
10. Powered everything up, waited for the surge protector timer to count down...and voila! We are fully up and running like nothing happened and my wife is thrilled.

Thank you again to our Heartland family for helping us out.

Now I want my weekend back.

 

[rxbristol]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

Great job!

 

[TravelTiger]

The forum saves the day again! Glad you were able to solve it yourself!!!


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[Rollin_Free]

Re: No power to multiple outlets

You MAY be able (all power sources disconnected) to open up the transfer relay box, remove the transfer relay, and file all relay contacts with a thin flat swiss file. This is probably where the open circuit in your black wire circuit is occurring. Best fix would be to replace the relay, a part number for it may be on a tag (or directly printed) on it. If you find a part number, try doing a Google search on that number to find a replacement.

What brand of Transfer relay is it? We have some manuals in the Tools tab on any forum page.

If you can see the contacts they should appear somewhat shinny. If you see dark black and grey on the contacts the relay is probably beyond using a file. I've tried cleaning high power contacts before and it only delayed the inevitable need to replace the relay. It does however work for a short time to allow you time to purchase the replacement.