Normal for frame to bend?
- Thread starter tireman9
- Start date
avvidclif
Well-known member
Methinks his focus is wrong. He's concentrating on the sidewall which is not the real problem from what I see. Something (frame) had to give to allow the sidewall to do that. I would hope Heartland would discuss the frame issue rather than trying to explain how a tree damaged the sidewall. Good Luck is all I can say.
2 cents worth.
2 cents worth.
dave10a
Well-known member
What about this situation?
I am looking to purchase a new unit soon and came across this situation that make me hesitate about Heartland. https://4radicalroadschoolersandafatcat.com/2018/08/20/the-day-our-heartland-rv-left-us-homeless/
I am looking to purchase a new unit soon and came across this situation that make me hesitate about Heartland. https://4radicalroadschoolersandafatcat.com/2018/08/20/the-day-our-heartland-rv-left-us-homeless/
Roller4tan
Well-known member
x2 !!
danemayer
Well-known member
The insurance company thinks it's due to a manufacturing defect and therefore won't pay.
The manufacturer of the trailer thinks it's due to a collision with a tree and therefore won't pay.
It seems to me that if the owner were to take the manufacturer's tree collision statement to the insurance company, the insurance company might be obligated to pay. "Gee, until Heartland pointed it out to me, I never realized that I must have hit a tree, leading to all this damage."
But if the owner sticks with the insurance company position that it's a manufacturing defect, the trailer and frame manufacturers can both simply decline to help because the warranty has expired - and the owner gets nothing except some satisfaction out of posting on social media how he's been wronged.
I'm pragmatic so I think I know which way I'd go.
The manufacturer of the trailer thinks it's due to a collision with a tree and therefore won't pay.
It seems to me that if the owner were to take the manufacturer's tree collision statement to the insurance company, the insurance company might be obligated to pay. "Gee, until Heartland pointed it out to me, I never realized that I must have hit a tree, leading to all this damage."
But if the owner sticks with the insurance company position that it's a manufacturing defect, the trailer and frame manufacturers can both simply decline to help because the warranty has expired - and the owner gets nothing except some satisfaction out of posting on social media how he's been wronged.
I'm pragmatic so I think I know which way I'd go.
B
BouseBill
Guest
The only inspection I read about was done by Heartland. And you know what their report is going to say.
The owner needs to pay out of pocket for an inspection by an independent individual not employed by Heartland.
As work campers we have witnessed drivers coming into a camp site and rub up against trees and not even know it. So it's possible the owner did in fact hit a tree, or NOT. But we will never know by the report from Heartland alone.
The owner needs to pay out of pocket for an inspection by an independent individual not employed by Heartland.
As work campers we have witnessed drivers coming into a camp site and rub up against trees and not even know it. So it's possible the owner did in fact hit a tree, or NOT. But we will never know by the report from Heartland alone.
porthole
Retired
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
To cause that much "twist" and have the rear damage, I think something happened that they have not reported entirely. We can all speculate. My thought is in a turn, the trailer tires may have gone off the road into a ditch or caught on something like curb at a fuel station, and the roof was also involved in an impact as the rig tilted over. Maybe this happened somewhere and they didn't realize the extent damage at the time?
But also,
I noted when I saw the post of photos there was extensive residue from duct tape around the cracks. They claim it happened "spontaneously" on the road and brought to their attention by a passing motorist. They then limped cautiously 30 miles to an rv park. How do you end up having tape residue around all the "new" cracks and roofline damage photos?
But also,
I noted when I saw the post of photos there was extensive residue from duct tape around the cracks. They claim it happened "spontaneously" on the road and brought to their attention by a passing motorist. They then limped cautiously 30 miles to an rv park. How do you end up having tape residue around all the "new" cracks and roofline damage photos?
lynndiwagoner
Well-known member
It is inconceivable that this all happened due to frame failure. It is obvious from the photos that they more than likely hit a low hanging tree limb. I once lost an entire wheel and tire assembly and never felt it. On a rough road, bouncing up and down, you probably wouldn't feel a tree limb hitting the back top of a long 5th wheel. I surely do feel sorry for them.
For you guys that say TREE, how do you explain the ladder being untouched/undamaged? Just asking because I noticed it in the pictures, not trying to argue with any of you. And I find it funny that the Heartland guy didn't notice that and cut it out of his picture for the report.
dave10a
Well-known member
Welp, I think I will continue looking at the different mfgs. If I was that owner, I would engage a structural engineer to determine what caused this situation. Saying that I am not sure the owner is being honest about what happened because that kind of damage should be a little more obvious and tied to his experience. Heartland's response in less than honest and appears to give enough information to make an insurance claim. Unfortunetley insurance companies are more fact oriented and do not rely on manufacturers unless the facts are more clear. I'm sure they would engage a reputable structure engineer.
I remove my coroplast to repair a fresh water tank leak(which was caused by poor engineering/production methods), I am not comfortable that my Landmark would survive too many sharp turns that would drag the wheels. That frame simply does not seam that robust and should have more structure to support the frame rather than the body itself. I don't know what other manufactures are doing to beef up their frames as well as overall running gear, but I am going to find out.
I remove my coroplast to repair a fresh water tank leak(which was caused by poor engineering/production methods), I am not comfortable that my Landmark would survive too many sharp turns that would drag the wheels. That frame simply does not seam that robust and should have more structure to support the frame rather than the body itself. I don't know what other manufactures are doing to beef up their frames as well as overall running gear, but I am going to find out.
Shortest Straw
Caught In A Mosh
I was able to ask the lady that posted this a bunch of questions on another forum. She is sticking to her story and would not elaborate on anything else associated with this incident. I have to wonder if she left anything else out to make Heartland look worse or herself look better. My understanding is that the frame lays the groundwork for the support of the rest of the rig. Any deviation for how it comes from the factory is going to cause damage. With the frame bending like that, and them continuing to drive it that way, who knows how much more damage it caused, especially on the roads we have to suffer on. Part of the problem was they did not want to stop their trip simply because of the damage. They definitely made things worse.
I do not think you will have much luck finding many manufacturers that do not use lippert frames. Good luck.
dave10a
Well-known member
I do not think you will have much luck finding many manufacturers that do not use lippert frames. Good luck.[/QUOTE said:Yes many do use Lippert, but keep in mind that the trailer mfg's spec what they want and what they are willing to accept and what to subtract. Also Lippert is not the only game in town. I compared some that use Lippert and they are some differences that suggest stronger frames and suspension for travel.
When I started my quest for a new trailer, I was more concerned about workmanship and now it is expanded to engineering as well. My wife is not happy about the time I have spend working out the problems on our trailer since I bought it. Not all the problems were Hearland's fault. I would say most of them were caused by sloppy workmanship. No two trailers are the same because they are basically hand built. It is a shame that one spends that kind of money only to end up with too many problems-- And at my age, I simply do need the problems.
So the way things are going, I may end up giving up on the RV world all together and travel via travel agencies. The cost would be about the same
You're a pretty sharp fella - I'm surprised by your question. What I hear you asking: Is the way this RV fell apart, normal?
No, this is not normal. Not for Heartland and not for the RV industry. Can it happen? Looks like it. The root cause analysis on this one will be quite interesting. Unsure that we'll hear what it was.
Bones
Well-known member
In the post they mention they had a front neck failure that caused cracking under the bedroom which could play a roll in what happened later. It was stated that it was repaired with lots of difficulty. I own this model rig and they are heavy in the rear and light in the front. They are designed with only 15% pin weight. If I remember correctly it is about 2300 lbs.
Fast Forward
The rear has two opposing slides in it with a sofa, camp kitchen and a bunk beds. The fridge and kitchen sit directly over the passenger side/door side of the axle's. It is quite possible while going down the road that the internal braces keeping the I-Beam frame straight failed. When the support structure failed coupled with the normal twisting that happens going down the road the frame rails couldn't stay straight and started to buckle and the heavy kitchen slide pushed it. Now add the two opposing slides in the back as a leverage moment and you now have tremendous forces acting on the frame and every bounce would act on everything. Imagine those slides bouncing up and down, up and down repetitively until all of the frame is twisting and now, snapping all of the wall structure. It appears to actually be ripping roofing members apart as well.
It is unfortunate that insurance is being paid on this rig and they refused to cover it because well that's the reason you pay for insurance.
I'll share this video of how my front pin was bouncing around. You can speculate all you want in tire pressure and so forth but at the end of the day These units appear to have light pin weights which could attribute the the damage. I've mentioned it before to some people but was just ignored. Here is a video that I finally managed to capture what was happening. This is the unit as designed completely empty except for two propane tanks.
Fast Forward
The rear has two opposing slides in it with a sofa, camp kitchen and a bunk beds. The fridge and kitchen sit directly over the passenger side/door side of the axle's. It is quite possible while going down the road that the internal braces keeping the I-Beam frame straight failed. When the support structure failed coupled with the normal twisting that happens going down the road the frame rails couldn't stay straight and started to buckle and the heavy kitchen slide pushed it. Now add the two opposing slides in the back as a leverage moment and you now have tremendous forces acting on the frame and every bounce would act on everything. Imagine those slides bouncing up and down, up and down repetitively until all of the frame is twisting and now, snapping all of the wall structure. It appears to actually be ripping roofing members apart as well.
It is unfortunate that insurance is being paid on this rig and they refused to cover it because well that's the reason you pay for insurance.
I'll share this video of how my front pin was bouncing around. You can speculate all you want in tire pressure and so forth but at the end of the day These units appear to have light pin weights which could attribute the the damage. I've mentioned it before to some people but was just ignored. Here is a video that I finally managed to capture what was happening. This is the unit as designed completely empty except for two propane tanks.
lynndiwagoner
Well-known member
That's an interesting video. The only thing that looks out of ordinary is how much your bed mounted hitch is bouncing up and down. My hitch would not allow that much up and down movement. Thanks for posting.
Bones
Well-known member
That is a few years of wear on the hitch as well from the camper yanking it. It took me awhile to track down what exactly was happening. I have since had to replace the hitch and added more weight to the front of the camper to add pin weight.
lynndiwagoner
Well-known member
That sounds like a good thing to do. I know that when I look at the hitch via the rear view mirror it does pitch around, depending upon the road conditions, but never jumps around like yours did. With more than a ton of weight on the hitch I would expect it to stay pretty much in place.
Also, it's hard to tell from your picture, is the hitch mounted above the axle or slightly behind?
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