Prep for winter camping

[Flatirons-View]

I want to begin improving my Northtrail 24BHS for winter camping. Last weekend went to Angel Fire, NM where the nighttime temperatures went below zero(0). The lesson made me realize that I should add heatpads to the Black, Gray, and maybe Fresh water tanks. Any recommendation for this process and any other ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks Tom Andrews

 

[danemayer]

Hi Flatirons,

You have a choice of 120V AC, or 12V DC heating pads. The factory usually uses 120V AC pads. To install, you'll probably want to add a circuit breaker that powers a switch inside, with the wires then going into the underbelly to connect to the pads. The hardest part is often dropping the coroplast and putting it back in place. While you have it removed, you should consider adding heat tape/insulation to the water lines too so they don't freeze up. Another thing to consider is adding insulation above the coroplast. You can get 4x8' sheets of foil-backed insulation board, cut to size to sit between frame members, tape attic batting to one side, and then bend slightly to place in between the frame members on each side.

One possible complication on tank heating pads is if you find stacked tanks. On our Landmark floorplan, for example, the black tank is over top of the gray #1 tank.

Also, take a look at our owner-written Water Systems Winter Usage Guide for more tips on keeping the water running.

 

[TravelTiger]

Hi Tom, we were in Angel Fire around New Years and understand your experience! It was our 4th time there and I think the colder we’ve ever seen. -13 one morning, other mornings were similar.

If you are planning to live in this cold, that’s one thing, but for visits to the cold, there are some things you can do to help.

We were prepared for the cold — here are things we did:

Take down the underbelly and learn where your water pipes go. If they are along the frame, try to get pipe insulation between the pipe and the frame. Insulate the water lines the whole way through the underbelly if possible.

For a 5ver, you’d have a universal docking center. Make sure that light is always on, creating heat.

Behind the basement wall where pipes are located, add a 150watt drop light to add heat where the piping is located.

Locate the duct that goes from the furnace into the underbelly. It may be only 2” and very short. Consider strategically aiming this towards your tanks or valves, adding to it if necessary. If you have the a ilty to get to your furnace and can replace the 2” with a 4” duct, that could direct even more heat down below.

Create a flap in the underbelly so that you can move your fresh tank drain up into the belly and seal it in for the time you’re in the cold. Wrap in pipe insulation too would not hurt.

Consider pipe heater lines for the longest runs. We used this from UltraHeat.

The fresh tank and fresh water supply line from the tank are susceptible to freezing. Consider adding tank heat pad to fresh tank and pipe heater to the line.

We have a fireplace and small variable speed Vornado heater we use to supplement the furnace, but remember that only running the furnace keeps your underbelly and pipes warm!


Hope this helps.



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[Flatirons-View]

Hi Flatirons,

You have a choice of 120V AC, or 12V DC heating pads. The factory usually uses 120V AC pads. To install, you'll probably want to add a circuit breaker that powers a switch inside, with the wires then going into the underbelly to connect to the pads. The hardest part is often dropping the coroplast and putting it back in place. While you have it removed, you should consider adding heat tape/insulation to the water lines too so they don't freeze up. Another thing to consider is adding insulation above the coroplast. You can get 4x8' sheets of foil-backed insulation board, cut to size to sit between frame members, tape attic batting to one side, and then bend slightly to place in between the frame members on each side.

One possible complication on tank heating pads is if you find stacked tanks. On our Landmark floorplan, for example, the black tank is over top of the gray #1 tank.

Also, take a look at our owner-written Water Systems Winter Usage Guide for more tips on keeping the water running.

Thanks for these recommendations and links they are helpful. I will look to add the heating pads (as soon as it warms up here). Thanks again. Tom

 

[sengli]

Having heated pads on your tanks, isnt going to keep your water lines from freezing. Be careful on the pads, some others on here have had those pads over temperature and melt the tanks if they arent full enough. We had the yetti package on our big horn, and honestly it wasnt really all that we thought it was going to be. Your water lines unless you insulate, and wrap heat tape around the water runs, they will still freeze.

 

[danemayer]

Once temps get below zero, the underbelly will generally be below freezing, no matter how much you run the furnace. Tank heaters and heat tape will keep the water running. At around -10 to -15 (F) you can expect gate valves to start freezing up unless you skirt. And even then, you may need heat inside the skirting. With a foam board mini-skirt and a ceramic disc heater underneath, I've kept everything going at -30 (F).

Tank heating pads only need a little water in the tank, above the pad, to dissipate the heat. But to ensure there's some water over the pad, you have to add enough to compensate for any sag in the tank. You'll also want to ensure the RV and the tank are both fairly level. In my experience, 5 gallons should be enough. If you install the pad on the lowest area of the tank, you'll need less water. If you have heating pads turned on with an empty tank, it may take a while to burn a hole. I burned a hole in my gray #1 at some point during a 6 week period. But gray #2 survived that 6 weeks.

 

[Flatirons-View]

Once temps get below zero, the underbelly will generally be below freezing, no matter how much you run the furnace. Tank heaters and heat tape will keep the water running. At around -10 to -15 (F) you can expect gate valves to start freezing up unless you skirt. And even then, you may need heat inside the skirting. With a foam board mini-skirt and a ceramic disc heater underneath, I've kept everything going at -30 (F).

Tank heating pads only need a little water in the tank, above the pad, to dissipate the heat. But to ensure there's some water over the pad, you have to add enough to compensate for any sag in the tank. You'll also want to ensure the RV and the tank are both fairly level. In my experience, 5 gallons should be enough. If you install the pad on the lowest area of the tank, you'll need less water. If you have heating pads turned on with an empty tank, it may take a while to burn a hole. I burned a hole in my gray #1 at some point during a 6 week period. But gray #2 survived that 6 weeks.

Dan,
Thanks for this update. I saw some replies earlier which warned me of overheating and possible holes being melted into the tank. It is possible to add a thin layer of insulation between the pads and the tank to further dissipate the heat? Again - thanks for you input.

Tom

 

[danemayer]

Dan,
Thanks for this update. I saw some replies earlier which warned me of overheating and possible holes being melted into the tank. It is possible to add a thin layer of insulation between the pads and the tank to further dissipate the heat? Again - thanks for you input.

Tom

Tom,

I'm not sure what would happen if you put insulation in between pad and tank. You might reduce the possibility of burning a hole through an empty tank. You might also reduce the effectiveness of the pad. Note that the pad has an adhesive backing that is designed for one time use. When I removed mine to fix the 3 burn holes, the pad had to be replaced.

 

[TravelTiger]

Dan,
Thanks for this update. I saw some replies earlier which warned me of overheating and possible holes being melted into the tank. It is possible to add a thin layer of insulation between the pads and the tank to further dissipate the heat? Again - thanks for you input.

Tom

Tom the instructions for the pad are to stick it directly to the tank. I’m not sure it would be wise to do something else. We have a heat pad only on the fresh tank, and use the heat pad only when we are running off the fresh tank.

Because we are rarely in such cold weather, we didn’t think tank pads were necessary for the others.

We were in Angel Fire a week and did not dump until we left and got in warmer temps. Obviously that’s not possible if you plan to be stationary a while in sub-freezing temps.

We also bought a wireless temperature monitor. It has small remote sensors that report back to a unit in the rig. We put one in the basement behind the wall where plumbing and our pump was located, one outside, and another in the underbelly by our fresh tank. This helped us keep tabs on things.


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[Partsbob]

I’m glad to see this thread, as it brings up questions I’ve had about the same, so I hope you don’t mind my piggy-backing on here. We bought a new ‘19 27RBDS Caliber about 4 months ago, allowing us a few chances to camp before winterizing it here in the NC mountains.
This is our 1st Heartland product and I’ve been curious about how our TT is constructed in the basement to be “polar-ready”, since the owners manual doesn’t give any description. I assumed it required the furnace to be running to provide heat passing through the space, but after reading this thread, I fear it’s only a well-insulated space without any heat being applied? Obviously running the furnace while in storage isn’t an option, so I hope somebody here can provide some information.
The unit is always connected to a 30a circuit while in storage and I run a small ceramic heater inside set to 45-50 degrees to keep it from dropping too low, because we do have periods here below freezing, sometimes as low as 1 degree for a few days.

 

[danemayer]

I’m glad to see this thread, as it brings up questions I’ve had about the same, so I hope you don’t mind my piggy-backing on here. We bought a new ‘19 27RBDS Caliber about 4 months ago, allowing us a few chances to camp before winterizing it here in the NC mountains.
This is our 1st Heartland product and I’ve been curious about how our TT is constructed in the basement to be “polar-ready”, since the owners manual doesn’t give any description. I assumed it required the furnace to be running to provide heat passing through the space, but after reading this thread, I fear it’s only a well-insulated space without any heat being applied? Obviously running the furnace while in storage isn’t an option, so I hope somebody here can provide some information.
The unit is always connected to a 30a circuit while in storage and I run a small ceramic heater inside set to 45-50 degrees to keep it from dropping too low, because we do have periods here below freezing, sometimes as low as 1 degree for a few days.

The first thing to understand is that whatever marketing term is used, i.e. Polar Ready, or 4 Season, or Arctic, or anything else, manufacturers are usually talking about the ability to keep the interior at a comfortable temperature in cold weather. It generally is not a statement about keeping the water running, or about freeze protection for water tanks, water lines, or water fixtures. Our owner-written Water Systems Winter Usage Guide deals with the latter.

On trailers with a sealed underbelly, the furnace typically has a 2" duct that is stubbed out in the underbelly. So running the furnace does force some warm air into the underbelly. But the sealed underbelly is not completely sealed. There are always openings. So in my experience, you can keep the underbelly 10-15 degrees (F) above ambient, with standard features.

If you use a space heater instead of the furnace, the underbelly will be close to ambient temperature.

If the trailer is in storage, you should winterize. If you're using the trailer in sub-freezing weather, you should take the additional measures necessary to prevent freeze damage and to keep water running.

 

[Partsbob]

Thanks for the tips on my questions and, rest assured, I carefully winterize and I am fortunate I have not had to learn the hard way. Your description of the construction is what I expected, but glad to hear at least it’s getting some heat from the furnace when it’s on.

 

[Lou_and_Bette]

The unit is always connected to a 30a circuit while in storage and I run a small ceramic heater inside set to 45-50 degrees to keep it from dropping too low, because we do have periods here below freezing, sometimes as low as 1 degree for a few days.

Bob, I would suggest putting a heat lamp in the area behind the UDC to keep the plumbing in that area warm. We full-time in our rig and, while we winter in South MS we still get some days below freezing, have a small box made out of foam insulation around our water spigot which has a 40w incandescent lamp in it. I also have a small heat lamp with a 60w incandescent bulb in it. I used to keep these lights lit all the time when we were going to be away from the rig for an extended period of time in case the temp dropped below freezing, (wasted electricity often.) I now use a Thermo-Cube outlet which turns on when the temp drops below 35 degrees F and turns off above 45 degrees F. I keep these outlets outside the heated areas so they aren't constantly turning on/off. I found ours in a local hardware store but they are available on the internet. I also have our short water connection hose wrapped in foam insulation with a thermostatically controlled heat tape enclosed.

Having said the above, if you don't winterize your rig to somewhat, these measures won't protect all your plumbing just the main area.

Hope this helps. Lou