Problems with new Heartland Sundance

SeattleLion

Well-known member
Lorenzo,
One thing to keep in mind is that your coach had to travel from Elkhart, IN to your dealer in CA. That is a long haul, and during the
trip I'm sure that some things vibrated loose (the water leaks), and possibly some other issues. Also RV transporters don't have a good reputation (I'm not blaming them, per se) of treating the rigs they haul with kid gloves, or like it was their own. The first national rally we went to in Goshen in 2011 we were refueling, and there was a transporter in front of us, with a travel trailer. When he pulled away from the pump, too fast, he turned too sharp, and the tires of the TT hit the concrete island & it jumped up in the air, if it'd have gone much further I think it would have turned over. Before ours was delivered, I found the forum, and read every post on here…took a long time, but I really got an education. I'd never owned an RV before. One of the first things I did was to check all of the screw on connections on the water lines, and found several loose. We had some issues with ours in the first year of owning it, and all of them were taken care of. No matter who makes a rig, and what level their workmanship, or quality control is, they all have to hire from the human race, and we as humans will make mistakes. As I've read on here several times...one thing to remember is the condo on wheels we are pulling around is a rolling earthquake. We have to constantly check things and fix things. For me, it's a labor of love, because we have developed a love of the RVing lifestyle, and the people we have met in our travels! I hope you get these issues taken care of so you can enjoy your investment. In my opinion, which is shared by many Heartland owners, is that Heartland is a good company & puts out good products. When it's time to upgrade, we'll stick with Heartland!

I have to say that I am tired the "earthquake" excuse. I haven't taken delivery of my Bighorn yet and I will do a careful PDI. We went through it today before dealer prep. It needs work. Some of the obvious problems could be transport, but the vast majority are workmanship issues that should have been picked up at the factory.

Our last and first RV was a Kodiak TT. It had a ton of initial issues that once resolve left us with a great trailer. I am delighted we purchased the fiver. It is an enormous investment and it is critical to us that it has the quality we expect. Let's face it, Heartland is no better than the rest of the Indiana RV industry, they are like Detroit before the Japanese showed that cars could be built without buyers having to get endless warranty service and, oh yeah, cars go through this same "earthquake" ... Some from Asia and don't need the service our trailers need coming all the way from Indiana. I am not upset with Heartland. I love the product. I am annoyed at apologists who fail to admit that improvement is needed.

It isn't all wonderful and platitudes don't cover failed quality control. What we have on our side is that at least with the fiver we picked, Heartland is clearly using the best quality components they can find and spec. Having read a lot about the company I am confident that they have set up excellent procedures for manufacture and QA. Apparently the workforce doesn't really care.
 

mobilcastle

Well-known member
From what I have read about Heartland, they stand behind their units sometimes outside of warranty. All trailers have some issues and the extended warranty is a good idea if you cannot fix things. I believe if I read the OP correctly all items were repaired. Some dealers do a good PDI and some don't. Of course you would not know this being it was your first purchase. I hope your unit is ready to rock & roll and you have good luck from now on! Many will help you on this forum if you have a problem-just ask.
 

kowAlski631

Well-known member
If you move your unit over most roads in the US, you will then understand that the term "earthquake" is not an excuse but reality. We found NO loose connections during our PDI as our dealer did a thorough inspection during their prep. We gave the dealer 7 days to inspect & make any corrections or adjustments needed prior to our arrival at the dealership. That meant we could learn the mechanics of our unit & become comfortable with their operation before we left the lot.

We DO find connections with slow leaks every now & then as we travel through states. Did we have a couple of warranty items - yep. HL was easy to work with to resolve them.

I don't apologize for HL work because, frankly, we haven't seen workmanship substandard. The things we have seen were as easily resolved as when the heated seats in our American built truck were improperly wired.

JMHO

Martha


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".
 

SeattleLion

Well-known member
I'm not as forgiving. Our trucks and my Mustang are the first American vehicles I purchased in more than 25 years. I went to Japanese cars because I was tired of warranty work. It isn't that a company doesn't repair its errors, it's that there are errors in the first place. In that 25 years I didn't have a single warranty issue. The three Fords we have had (traded a F150 for the current F350) like the Japanese cars, have had no warranty work either. I have had my Mustang for a year and a half now.

A car or truck is far more complex than any trailer. The standard blurb that dragging a trailer is like dragging your house makes no real sense to me. Our F350 was designed to travel on the good and bad roads we follow. Every system is designed to handle the bumps and bruises and still keep going. Some people act like it is a surprise to the RV companies that their products actually travel on roads. They seem to be saying that the RV is a house and you are dragging it around and should expect problems. Sorry, that is just plain wrong. Heartland knows that my expensive 5th wheel is going to be moving all over the place throughout its life. With that in mind, every single part in the trailer should be manufactured, installed and tested to operate trouble-free for its useful life. It shouldn't come as a shock to Heartland that I plan to take my new trailer on freeways, secondary roads, and even unpaved campground drives. If they built it to sit in one place, then they are building houses and not RV's.

I know that Heartland understands how my 5th wheel will be used and that the engineering is correct for it to have a long, trouble-free life. The problem is that we customers have not let the company and industry know that we are not going to buy products that force us back to the dealer time after time for "adjustments". Our truck has thousands more moving parts than the trailer. If Ford can figure out how to make a truck of high quality, than Heartland can do the same. That's not to say that there will never be a customer issue. Even Toyota gets some vehicles back for repair. But, every single RV has to come back for something. Even if the dealer does a perfect PDI, invariably within the first year something will go wrong.

What bothers me is that we have been trained to accept that. The reason is that the Indiana RV industry has no competition from higher quality manufacturers. So, if you want a RV, you go to Thor or one of its competitors. Have you noticed that not one of the RV companies makes quality claims. Heartland does claim better customer service than anyone else, but not that their products are more trouble free. I know that this board is read by some Heartland executives. I suggest that you guys consider LEAN manufacturing. It's worked for Japan, Detroit, and some of the high tech companies here. Production quality issues can be solved.

Having said all that, I am delighted with my purchase. Why? Because Heartland has won my heart. Even now, before my PDI, at the Seattle RV show, the NW regional sales manager took a lot of time to answer my questions and help me see the value in my new trailer. More importantly, he gave me his card and cell phone number to call him if I have any problems at all. Gotta love that! Combine that with a great dealer, Fife RV, and I am comfortable that my camping (hard to call it that when I have a luxury hotel on wheels) will be wonderful with my new fiver. I have to resign myself to dragging the trailer to the dealer a few times to correct manufacturing issues.

According to my dealer, the RV companies pay quite poorly for warranty work. This is one reason why it is sometimes hard to get a dealer that didn't see you your RV to do warranty work. This is another area of improvement for the manufacturers. As long as it costs less to pay a dealer to fix errors then to take the time and labor to avoid the errors in the first place, things won't get better. Heartland says it was founded on the principle of making the best RV's, not the most. Certainly everyone I have met who is affiliated with the company seems committed to that ideal. The problem is not spending the money in the factory to assure that at least 90% of the customers never have a warranty claim. That isn't pie in the sky. Ford and GM have done it. You can too.
 

kowAlski631

Well-known member
Not a matter of accepting substandard items - autos or RVs or hairdryers. Simply a matter of choosing not to stress over the small stuff. In the whole scheme of life, when things can be fixed, it's really not worth getting upset over.

Oh, even Bentleys & Rolls have warranty work done on them.

Martha


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".
 

kowAlski631

Well-known member
Perhaps, but the point I was making was that cost of product does not equate to quality of product.


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
Not a matter of accepting substandard items - autos or RVs or hairdryers. Simply a matter of choosing not to stress over the small stuff. In the whole scheme of life, when things can be fixed, it's really not worth getting upset over.

Even when it has been in THREE TIMES FOR THE SAME WARRANTY REPAIR . . . and now that the warranty is up . . . the same problem has reared it's ugly head one more time?

I think not . . .

I also think it would behoove Heartland to maybe hold their dealerships to some form of standard as well . . .
 

tmcran

Well-known member
Bad example. Bentley and Rolls make the RV industry look like perfection. LOL

Yep, my attorney has a Rolls. He hit a curb very hard and broke the back axle. He contacted Rolls and told them what happened. Their reply was you will be provided a free axle. "Rolls rear axles don't break."
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
Even when it has been in THREE TIMES FOR THE SAME WARRANTY REPAIR . . . and now that the warranty is up . . . the same problem has reared it's ugly head one more time?

I think not . . .

I also think it would behoove Heartland to maybe hold their dealerships to some form of standard as well . . .

The dealerships are not extensions of the manufacturer. RV dealers, in actuality, are the primary customer. Dealerships can choose to carry any brand they want. So the manufacturer does not necessarily have as much weight as we think.


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tmcran

Well-known member
Perhaps, but the point I was making was that cost of product does not equate to quality of product.


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

Really! Check out the difference in the leather on a Rolls vs a Ford. Honda gasoline generators vs Harbor Freight and so on and so on.
 

kowAlski631

Well-known member
I worked for over 20 years with auto dealerships representing all manufacturers. I really do believe I know what I'm talking about with automobiles & the quality of construction.

However, let me try to state this again. It was being stated that things should be made without fault in manufacture. It don't happen! (& yes I did intentionally use improper grammatical structure)


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".
 

tmcran

Well-known member
I worked for over 20 years with auto dealerships representing all manufacturers. I really do believe I know what I'm talking about with automobiles & the quality of construction.

However, let me try to state this again. It was being stated that things should be made without fault in manufacture. It don't happen! (& yes I did intentionally use improper grammatical structure)


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

As for me I certainly bow to your long year's of knowledge.
 

caissiel

Senior Member
I was in conversation with a lady the other day about quality.
She said that the city managers always gave her a hard time due the fact that the new buses were to long in her shop before put to use. Her answer was that the new buses were not mass produced and every inch of the new unit needed to be checked so they would last and not returned to the shop early.

Things produced on an assembly line like cars and trucks are easily quality controlled. Any Ford line worker was able to stop the line at any time if something was not right. That's when the crown victoria finally became the very best car produced by Ford in St Thomas Ontario.
I worked in plant maintenance for Over 30 years. New equipment came in and installed by cheapest price contractors and the new setup was a curse to get going. After experience we knew what to look for.
If I compare my 8000 lbs truck to my trailer, and to compare quality the trailer should weight at least 4 times more for same volume. The 4 water thanks are 8 times the truck tank volume. The walls are 100 time thicker.
The roof and floor are 200 times thicker. But the frame has to be twice as long with all furnishings of a house. As today's camper is no longer a camper but a house on wheels.
No way my Ford can tow my house with same furnishings less axles and tanks while similar wall and roof R value.
No way can I compare the building of an RV to my truck. If I did it would be to heavy to tow on the road.
In mining I engineered everything and multiplied by 3. In pulp and paper with SS we could not afford to have more then 20%. Same goes for RV industry compared to my truck.

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