Prospective buyer question: Ice Maker Line

[Ozarkwoods]

We full time and we are thinking of going from our Motorhome to a Fiver. We are looking at the Landmark Charleston this particular unit has the optional Yeti package. I was reading the owner’s manual for the Landmarks and read that the icemaker supply line needs to be winterized if temps get below freezing, even if you live full time. Is this what you all are experiencing? My motorhome I am able to keep the basement heated.

 

[danemayer]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

In floorplans where the refrigerator is located in a slideout, the water feed line is typically routed under the slideout where it's exposed to outside air temps. So if you're using the RV in sub-freezing weather, you need to shut off the water feed and drain the exterior portion of the feed line.

 

[Ozarkwoods]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

In floorplans where the refrigerator is located in a slideout, the water feed line is typically routed under the slideout where it's exposed to outside air temps. So if you're using the RV in sub-freezing weather, you need to shut off the water feed and drain the exterior portion of the feed line.

This is the case with the Charleston and from what I see almost all of the other models. I believe the line originates from the island the goes under the the floor there is no easy way from what I understand to drain that line. Is the area under the floor where the tanks are heated/insulated? Since we know that Plex will expand greater then the expansion of frozen water why is it not used for the refrigerator supply line?

I am sitting here in Tulsa I see many fivers sitting with large propane tanks being delivered and hooked up showing they are going to be here for the winter. So I am trying to wrap my head around the fact that if I am buying a fifth wheel that is made for full timers why it wouldn’t be designed for sub freezing temps that we see in high elevations in the spring and fall, or in the states that can reach freezing temps. Even Mid Texas or states along I 10 can reach sub freezing temps.

 

[danemayer]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

I recommend using compressed air to evacuate the water from the refrigerator line. Our Residential Refrigerator user guide has instructions.

If PEX tubing were used, yes, it would survive a freeze, but to keep the water flowing, you'd need to put heat tape and insulation on the outside portion to keep it from freezing. A lot of people have replaced the poly tubing with stainless steel braided lines for durability. Changing it to PEX would be a bit more involved, but there's no reason you couldn't do it - or have the selling dealer do it for you.

A number of people use countertop ice makers instead.

 

[dave10a]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

I recommend using compressed air to evacuate the water from the refrigerator line. Our Residential Refrigerator user guide has instructions.

If PEX tubing were used, yes, it would survive a freeze, but to keep the water flowing, you'd need to put heat tape and insulation on the outside portion to keep it from freezing. A lot of people have replaced the poly tubing with stainless steel braided lines for durability. Changing it to PEX would be a bit more involved, but there's no reason you couldn't do it - or have the selling dealer do it for you.

A number of people use countertop ice makers instead.

If this is a known problem, why hasn't the factory done something about it?

 

[danemayer]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

If this is a known problem, why hasn't the factory done something about it?

Dave, I can only speculate.

I surveyed people on this forum a few years ago about how many used or planned to use their trailers at various winter temperatures. I was thinking that if a significant % were interested in sub-freezing camping, that it might help convince Heartland to offer more features aimed at that usage.

The percentage using in temps below freezing was a minority. To the extent that survey can be extrapolated to the general population of owners, I can see where Heartland and other manufacturers would view the extra cost as not being a high priority. And the 95% of owners who never camp in the winter probably don't want to pay the extra cost for something they will never use.

And perhaps adding to my speculation, I would assume most people use the ice maker to put ice in their drinks. Probably don't have as much demand for iced drinks in sub-freezing weather.

Sure, there will be a handful of people like me using their trailer in sub-zero conditions at ski resorts. But I don't recall anyone ever wishing they had more ice. And half of my neighbors were dry camping - using the clubhouse facilities.

The least expensive and easiest workaround would be to buy a bag of ice. Next would be to buy a countertop ice maker.

 

[RickL]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

Besides the “standard” plastic line they utilize to feed the ice make, my Oshkosh had a valve outside under the slide. I spent 6 weeks in Tulsa last winter and never used the ice maker. Problem was when either the factory or the dealer checked the line they didn’t drain it and the valve failed from freezing temps.

I also found another valve behind behind the bottom drawer next to the fridge (right by the outside wall) and that also failed. (of course I didn’t know that failed until I repaired the outside valve and flooded the inside). There is a turn off under the island sink for the ice maker so that is the feed for the ice maker.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is stay away from freezing temps or if I do have to venture into it, drain/blowout the ice maker line. The last thing I need is to have the water system internally in the fridge freeze and create more issues then just a simple line/valve. That $2 bag of ice for that short period is well worth the hassle. Just my opinion.

 

[dave10a]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

I stay in Florida for the winter and have experienced over-night freezing temperature which have cause problems to many RV's. As it is now, one should buy a trailer with no appliances that use water installed in the slides to avoid freezing their lines. I would dare say there are enough RV's that experience freezing weather to warrant the manufactures to address the problem or even options to do so. If they really care about their customers they would either issue a warning, solve the problem or offer a solution.
Sorry I can not defend any manufacture with this kind of unresolved issue, by doing so is not in a customers best interest(s), and I question the motive behind anyone that does so. Heartland is not the only manufacturer with this kind of issue which is very unfortunate. It is a small issue, but that philosophy usually carries over to larger issues.

 

[danemayer]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

As it is now, one should buy a trailer with no appliances that use water installed in the slides to avoid freezing their lines.

Gee Dave, if you're concerned about the line freezing, it seems like just shutting off the water to the ice maker feed line when you buy the trailer would accomplish the same thing without restricting your choice of floor plans. Or you could take 10 minutes to blow out the line for the winter.

Your solution seems pretty extreme.

 

[dave10a]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

Gee Dave, if you're concerned about the line freezing, it seems like just shutting off the water to the ice maker feed line when you buy the trailer would accomplish the same thing without restricting your choice of floor plans. Or you could take 10 minutes to blow out the line for the winter.

Your solution seems pretty extreme.

Gee Dan, why is expecting the manufacturer to address and resolve a simple problem extreme? Yes I can cope with this inconvenience because I am handy, but many RV's may not be as handy and I am sure they would appreciate the manufacture helping out-- As long as people have low expectations of the RV manufacturers things will be very slow at better engineering and Quality Control. So why don't you help us hold their feet to the fire to improve?

 

[danemayer]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

Dave,

I think about 2 years ago, because of a lot of feedback just like yours, some of the Product Managers did take a look at how to eliminate the water feed line freezing. The simplest fix at the lowest cost....get rid of the ice maker and the water feed line. Would have saved a lot of money.

Good news for us, they decided to keep the ice makers, even though some maintenance is required.

 

[sengli]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

The dealer pumped my ice maker full of anti freeze, while it was on the lot for sale. Since I dont plan on ever using it, I left it that way.

 

[dave10a]

Re: Prospective buyer questions

Dave,

I think about 2 years ago, because of a lot of feedback just like yours, some of the Product Managers did take a look at how to eliminate the water feed line freezing. The simplest fix at the lowest cost....get rid of the ice maker and the water feed line. Would have saved a lot of money.

Good news for us, they decided to keep the ice makers, even though some maintenance is required.

What is good news for you is bad news for me. Evidently those who made that decision missed the engineering credit (if they even studied engineering) course "Engineering Economics." Now that Heartland approved thier trailers for "full time" those who experience water damage from frozen ice make lines while living in thier trailer in low temperature areas can seek warranty repairs. Bad engineering principles/practice costs more money.