Pulling more amps and breaker trip

[TravelTiger]

Hi all, we had an interesting scenario happing while we were visiting Angel Fire, New Mexico this past week. We were staying at the “high-end” Angel Fire RV Resort, which was relatively full of visitors there for the snow, as we were.

We were there for 5 nights, temperatures were generally below freezing, and into the negative numbers at night.

Thanks to our CheapHeat install and tank/pipe heaters, we were staying comfortable and water was still flowing. CheapHeat draws about 20-22 Amps per leg when it’s running, so we were generally careful to not have too many items drawing electricity at once.

On the 6th night we were there, (and note many other campers had already left), the 50amp breaker at the pedestal tripped somewhere around 4:30-5AM, waking us up about 5:15. The outside temperature was about -12* F. When we flipped the breaker back on, we saw one leg drawing 50amps, the other drawing 32 amps. We turned off the fridge, water heater and saw no noticeable change in the 50 Amp leg L-1, while the CheapHeat continued to run.

The legs read about 123v to 119v on both. Power stayed on for about 10 minutes and tripped again, so we decided to pack up and leave, rather than try to solve the problem. (We were heading out that day anyway.)

We left and headed to Amarillo, where temps were above freezing. We have not seen Amp draw above 40 on either leg for the same demand.

What could have been causing the Amp draw to increase? Cold? Low voltage? Weak breaker? Other?

I want to know if I need to investigate further on my rig as to what caused this.




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[TedS]

I would suspect that something has gone wrong with the heating elements resulting in less coil resistance and drawing more current.

 

[TravelTiger]

I would suspect that something has gone wrong with the heating elements resulting in less coil resistance and drawing more current.

Ted, if that was the case, wouldn’t I see the same high amp draw at my new location that same day, or at my home park a few days later?


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[danemayer]

Erica,

The Power Converter is a hidden load and if the batteries are low, can draw quite a bit of amperage. It's on a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a reason.

After the pedestal breaker tripped, your batteries may have kept the furnace blower running continuously, drawing the batteries down. Then when you reset the breaker, the converter may have been using max power.

But that would be on one leg only.

 

[TravelTiger]

Erica,

The Power Converter is a hidden load and if the batteries are low, can draw quite a bit of amperage. It's on a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a reason.

After the pedestal breaker tripped, your batteries may have kept the furnace blower running continuously, drawing the batteries down. Then when you reset the breaker, the converter may have been using max power.

But that would be on one leg only.

Yes Dan, only 1 leg showed 50amps, the other leg showed 32amps.

But what caused the breaker to trip to begin with?


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[Garypowell]

Not sure if you have done this but on every rig since I have had a progressive industries unit is “map” my power draws. Takes a couple of hours to run around and shut things off and isolate Rome draw at a time.....but it helps with this kind of trouble shooting.

using a hair dryer we mapped all of our outlets too.

 

[danemayer]

Yes Dan, only 1 leg showed 50amps, the other leg showed 32amps.

But what caused the breaker to trip to begin with?


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Tripping could be a problem at the pedestal. Loose neutral wire for example. Or a bad breaker.

Still, 50 amps on one leg and 32 amps on the other sounds high. And holding at 50 amps on L1 after you turned off the water heater and fridge, sounds at least 10 amps too high. CheapHeat AND Power Converter shouldn't get above about 40 amps max.

Other heaters? Are your tank heaters and Heat tape 120V? How many amps?

I think you'll want to monitor the amperage draw at home to see if it continues to be inexplicably high.

 

[TravelTiger]

Tripping could be a problem at the pedestal. Loose neutral wire for example. Or a bad breaker.

Still, 50 amps on one leg and 32 amps on the other sounds high. And holding at 50 amps on L1 after you turned off the water heater and fridge, sounds at least 10 amps too high. CheapHeat AND Power Converter shouldn't get above about 40 amps max.

Other heaters? Are your tank heaters and Heat tape 120V? How many amps?

I think you'll want to monitor the amperage draw at home to see if it continues to be inexplicably high.

Dan we use a small Vornado heater that has a thermostat and variable speed fan. It’s rarely going full blast. Tank heaters are DC

I checked this morning about 4:30am, temp about 30*, with the equivalent appliances running, it was 20 on one leg and 32 on the other, but that is without tank/pipe heaters.

The tank/pipe heaters are DC.

The two pipe heaters are self-regulating and draw 6amps each max, the tank pads draw 9.6amps.



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[TravelTiger]

I forgot, we also had the truck’s engine block heater plugged into the outside GFI.

I’m still baffled because if my coach really was drawing more than 50 amps, wouldn’t my coach breaker flip first?


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[danemayer]

I forgot, we also had the truck’s engine block heater plugged into the outside GFI.

I’m still baffled because if my coach really was drawing more than 50 amps, wouldn’t my coach breaker flip first?


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Ok, so the engine block heater and Vornado heater could account for the high usage.

On the CheapHeat, where did you make the power connections?

 

[TravelTiger]

Dan, the engine block heater and Vornado fan were also used previous nights with no issues, so they were not a new draw.

The CheapHeat 30amp breaker was added to our existing panel. The control box is mounted on the backside of the stair structure (behind the basement wall). The area behind the basement wall stayed about 35* most of the time.

We checked all the breakers that night and none were excessively warm.


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[danemayer]

Dan, the engine block heater and Vornado fan were also used previous nights with no issues, so they were not a new draw.

The CheapHeat 30amp breaker was added to our existing panel. The control box is mounted on the backside of the stair structure (behind the basement wall). The area behind the basement wall stayed about 35* most of the time.

We checked all the breakers that night and none were excessively warm.


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Erica,

There should be two 30 amp breakers on adjacent slots in the coach main breaker panel, so one breaker is on L1 and the other on L2.

 

[TravelTiger]

Erica,

There should be two 30 amp breakers on adjacent slots in the coach main breaker panel, so one breaker is on L1 and the other on L2.

Yes, a double breaker, I don’t know the technical term. Here’s a before install pic.

The breaker fits here.

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[TedS]

Well, then, if your cheapheat draws more than 30 amps the 30 amp breakers should trip. The is something else drawing current to take L1 and L2 towards 50 amps.
I would say the cheapheat is not your problem current draw.

 

[danemayer]

So, it sounds like the CheapHeat is ok. The high amps draw is probably a combination of having turned CheapHeat back on, the Vornado drawing 10-15 amps in a cold coach, the engine block heater drawing 10-15 amps, the Power Converter working hard to recharge the batteries that ran down a bit running the furnace blower while the pedestal was tripped, the refrigerator probably also drawing down the batteries and then when power was restored, pulling higher 120V amps, and the water heater being on 120V.

Why did the pedestal trip, and why did it smell funny? Probably a loose wire or breaker going bad.

 

[TravelTiger]

So, it sounds like the CheapHeat is ok. The high amps draw is probably a combination of having turned CheapHeat back on, the Vornado drawing 10-15 amps in a cold coach, the engine block heater drawing 10-15 amps, the Power Converter working hard to recharge the batteries that ran down a bit running the furnace blower while the pedestal was tripped, the refrigerator probably also drawing down the batteries and then when power was restored, pulling higher 120V amps, and the water heater being on 120V.

Why did the pedestal trip, and why did it smell funny? Probably a loose wire or breaker going bad.

That sounds very plausible, thanks to everyone that posted. Dan, I appreciate your troubleshooting!!

We gave definitely learned a thing or two regarding below-freezing excursions. We loved not having to lug propane tanks every few days.




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[Dahillbilly]

as a retired industrial electrician seen it many times; a loose connection at a breaker will cause one leg of a double pole breaker to draw more amps, causing it to trip out. Amazing how they loosen up over time & do that. My suggestion is at least once a season when you have the power(all) disconnected take the time to check your breakers for loose connections.
Dahillbilly

 

[TravelTiger]

as a retired industrial electrician seen it many times; a loose connection at a breaker will cause one leg of a double pole breaker to draw more amps, causing it to trip out. Amazing how they loosen up over time & do that. My suggestion is at least once a season when you have the power(all) disconnected take the time to check your breakers for loose connections.
Dahillbilly

Are you referencing the breaker on the pedestal or in the breaker panel in the rv?


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[Dahillbilly]

Are you referencing the breaker on the pedestal or in the breaker panel in the rv?


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this applies to all breakers; factors effecting this include vibration, normal use from the heating & cooling of the wires(conductors). Had to do thermographic scans of the electrical equipment yearly, #1 item that showed up was loose connections on breakers. These breakers were in panels in the buildings.

 

[Flick]

Hi all, we had an interesting scenario happing while we were visiting Angel Fire, New Mexico this past week. We were staying at the “high-end” Angel Fire RV Resort, which was relatively full of visitors there for the snow, as we were.




Wow. Seeing your rig in all that snow makes us South Texas guys wonder how anything can work in a normal manner. We get a 25deg day with a lot of jack frost and it almost shuts us down here on the farm. Congratulations on a safe trip. We have a trip planned to Colorado, Utah and Wyoming leaving March 5. Hope you find the cause of your electrical problem. It may never show up again.