Reverse Osmosis - Who's doing this in their RV?
- Thread starter jbeletti
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wdk450
Well-known member
One more thing about storing RO processed water. Although the product water should be bacteria free, it is also no longer chlorinated. Some would say this is a good thing, but a MAJOR public health improvement in the past century has been the introduction of clean, chlorinated drinking water supplies. The reduced mortality due to chlorination has pretty much gone unnoticed; like the reduced number of electrocutions due to the mandated use of GFCI's.
RO water in storage will become contaminated from airborne and container bacteria. At the hospital we stored some RO water for a dialyzer re-processor system, but had to dump the water every 2 days to keep the contamination levels down.
RO water in storage will become contaminated from airborne and container bacteria. At the hospital we stored some RO water for a dialyzer re-processor system, but had to dump the water every 2 days to keep the contamination levels down.
SilverRhino
Well-known member
I have recently removed the RO system from our house. For me, a RO system is way to wasteful! We all take for granted that there will be an endless supply of clean water when we turn the tap and this is not true! We have spent many years wasting this precious commodity and we are now starting to see the detrimental effects on the environment. I simply run my water through a filter system and have no problems.
These are are just my opinions and concerns I thought to share.
These are are just my opinions and concerns I thought to share.
My plan is to have a switch in the control panel that allows me to stop making RO water. My fresh water tank level sensors remain fairly accurate. I will likely plan to carry a larger amount of water in my tank that I carry now. I now carry maybe 20 gallons. I may increase that to 30 or 40.
Using my fresh water tank level display and the RO control switch - I will do my best to manage RO production.
Point well taken.
By running two RO membranes in series and an RO boost pump, we can achieve a 1.5 to 1 ratio of brine to product water. That much more efficient than most pre-built RO systems.
Bill - thanks for your feedback in this post and the one earlier.
I like clean water as much as the next guy but I'm guessing that I will never achieve hospital grade water. Accepting that will be the first step in my acceptance of the best water I can produce without breaking the bank and wasting water by an order of magnitude.
That's a crazy amount of waste. I'm not up for that level of waste.
Dave - I spoke to Anderson Brass today about the possibility of integrating an RO system with their 4-way valve used on my Landmark as well as my desire to have an RO bypass valve whereby I could push filtered water into my tank if I needed to take the RO system offline. They agreed to review my design plan and respond.
I plan to add a boost pump in front of the RO membrane to increase water pressure to allows the RO system to work more efficiently (faster production and less waste water). I will likely continue to use my OEM water pump for drawing water from the tank and pressurizing my plumbing system. If it turns out to be ineffectual, I may look at some Aquatec models.
With respect to dripping brine water on the ground, I want the capability but may not use it often. I will be sensitive to what campgrounds allow.
I plan to add some check valves where needed but I need to be careful to not unduly at back pressure to the RO system as I don't want to slow production and increase my waste water to product water ratio.
Bones
Well-known member
Jim,
I didn't think about the back pressure so what you could do is add another part that would allow your brine to collect then it would force pump from the small container through a check valve. Maybe they have inline pumps that you can use and trigger it with a float and switch. It comes on at a certain level and off when low. This would keep your system separated from the gray tanks as a just in-case. I'm just thinking out loud. As with any prototype, improvements can always be made. I found many many improvements to be made to my trailer when I was testing it this past week. On side note. I finally purchased a hole house filter. Just a single stage right now but I may ad a second stage to it at some time.
I didn't think about the back pressure so what you could do is add another part that would allow your brine to collect then it would force pump from the small container through a check valve. Maybe they have inline pumps that you can use and trigger it with a float and switch. It comes on at a certain level and off when low. This would keep your system separated from the gray tanks as a just in-case. I'm just thinking out loud. As with any prototype, improvements can always be made. I found many many improvements to be made to my trailer when I was testing it this past week. On side note. I finally purchased a hole house filter. Just a single stage right now but I may ad a second stage to it at some time.
Final Design....
Below is my final design.... maybe
Sent it out for quote. Will likely be about $1,000 inclusive of misc. items. I am making the system portable such that it can be removed very quickly and reinstalled (not as quickly) in a new coach. Tank float switches will not be removed of course.
Below is my final design.... maybe
Sent it out for quote. Will likely be about $1,000 inclusive of misc. items. I am making the system portable such that it can be removed very quickly and reinstalled (not as quickly) in a new coach. Tank float switches will not be removed of course.
Bones
Well-known member
Re: Final Design....
Your diagram looks very good. what is your plan of attack for making this system portable?
Dave
Jim,Below is my final design.... maybe
Sent it out for quote. Will likely be about $1,000 inclusive of misc. items. I am making the system portable such that it can be removed very quickly and reinstalled (not as quickly) in a new coach. Tank float switches will not be removed of course.
Your diagram looks very good. what is your plan of attack for making this system portable?
Dave
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Re: Final Design....
Dave - the 3 pre-filters will be connected to each other and connected to a triple canister bracket. The 2 RO membranes clip to each other and also connect to the triple canister bracket.
The 2 post-filters are not connected to each other but will be connected to another triple canister bracket in the 2 outside positions with 90 degree connectors.
I will build from wood, a framework and I'll mount these 2 triple canister brackets back to back. Maybe even have a handle on the top of the framework.
I may mount the RO Boost Pump and RO Control Solenoid on top of the framework. This simplifies plumbing and installation/uninstallation. Issue here could be vibration from the RO Boost Pump. But it still may be worth trying.
My interfaces with the coach plumbing system will likely be made with Sharkbite fittings. Reasons being ease of installation and ease of restoration once my system is removed for the next coach.
I will fully document the current coach system before I install the RO system. By document, I mean, mark/label, draw out and photograph it.
I may NOT be able to interface the system with the Anderson Brass 4-way valve. I'll likely plan to use the City water inlet on the Anderson valve panel but that may be all. Reason being is that even when the valve is set to Normal (draw water from tank), if the valve sees pressure at the City water inlet, it draws from their first. This defeats my system by mixing unprocessed City water with RO water.
Dave - the 3 pre-filters will be connected to each other and connected to a triple canister bracket. The 2 RO membranes clip to each other and also connect to the triple canister bracket.
The 2 post-filters are not connected to each other but will be connected to another triple canister bracket in the 2 outside positions with 90 degree connectors.
I will build from wood, a framework and I'll mount these 2 triple canister brackets back to back. Maybe even have a handle on the top of the framework.
I may mount the RO Boost Pump and RO Control Solenoid on top of the framework. This simplifies plumbing and installation/uninstallation. Issue here could be vibration from the RO Boost Pump. But it still may be worth trying.
My interfaces with the coach plumbing system will likely be made with Sharkbite fittings. Reasons being ease of installation and ease of restoration once my system is removed for the next coach.
I will fully document the current coach system before I install the RO system. By document, I mean, mark/label, draw out and photograph it.
I may NOT be able to interface the system with the Anderson Brass 4-way valve. I'll likely plan to use the City water inlet on the Anderson valve panel but that may be all. Reason being is that even when the valve is set to Normal (draw water from tank), if the valve sees pressure at the City water inlet, it draws from their first. This defeats my system by mixing unprocessed City water with RO water.
Re: Final Design....
Don't mean to be argumentative and I am no expert on this matter by any stretch. I "think" using a post filter of carbon make-up adds a "bit" of mineral back into the water.
I "think" a test of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) is a measure of mineral (and maybe other stuff) content in water. Yesterday, at Michael Kidd's RV, he tested a glass of his RO water and a glass of Aquafina bottled water I brought with me. I forget the TDS level in his RO water but it was low - maybe in the teens. Surprisingly (to me at least), the TDS of the Aquafina was 0 (zero). No dissolved solids present. Does this mean it has no minerals?
Here again, I do not know how to interpret this as it's all new to me. I appreciate the feedback and if anyone is a water quality expert, their feedback here would also be appreciated.
Don't mean to be argumentative and I am no expert on this matter by any stretch. I "think" using a post filter of carbon make-up adds a "bit" of mineral back into the water.
I "think" a test of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) is a measure of mineral (and maybe other stuff) content in water. Yesterday, at Michael Kidd's RV, he tested a glass of his RO water and a glass of Aquafina bottled water I brought with me. I forget the TDS level in his RO water but it was low - maybe in the teens. Surprisingly (to me at least), the TDS of the Aquafina was 0 (zero). No dissolved solids present. Does this mean it has no minerals?
Here again, I do not know how to interpret this as it's all new to me. I appreciate the feedback and if anyone is a water quality expert, their feedback here would also be appreciated.
B
BouseBill
Guest
Re: Final Design....
Hey Jim, I've been following your thread with interest to see what you come up with. That is an impressive work ya got going there, but IMHO 1K for RO water is overkill. We use a 5-filter system from these folks.
http://interstatewater.com/
Our system takes about 48 minutes to produce 1 gallon of RO water. . Our wastewater to RO water is approximately 5 to 1, measured with a 5-gallon bucket collecting the wastewater. Our location gives us the option to drain the brine back into the aquifer, what someone would do in a RV park situation is questionable, it wouldn’t take long to fill up a gray tank. FYI the amount of wastewater is predicated on the quality of water going into the RO system to begin with. Here in the South Central Arizona desert our water is very hard as I mention in my previous post, with TDS in the high 600s to low 700s.
It was pretty simple to cut the line going from the Anderson valve to the fresh water tank and install a ¼” water line from the last filter to the to that location. We use the onboard fresh water indicator to keep track of the water supply and rarely do we overflow the tank. But then we do use RO water for everything.
Bill
Hey Jim, I've been following your thread with interest to see what you come up with. That is an impressive work ya got going there, but IMHO 1K for RO water is overkill. We use a 5-filter system from these folks.
http://interstatewater.com/
Our system takes about 48 minutes to produce 1 gallon of RO water. . Our wastewater to RO water is approximately 5 to 1, measured with a 5-gallon bucket collecting the wastewater. Our location gives us the option to drain the brine back into the aquifer, what someone would do in a RV park situation is questionable, it wouldn’t take long to fill up a gray tank. FYI the amount of wastewater is predicated on the quality of water going into the RO system to begin with. Here in the South Central Arizona desert our water is very hard as I mention in my previous post, with TDS in the high 600s to low 700s.
It was pretty simple to cut the line going from the Anderson valve to the fresh water tank and install a ¼” water line from the last filter to the to that location. We use the onboard fresh water indicator to keep track of the water supply and rarely do we overflow the tank. But then we do use RO water for everything.
Bill
dave10a
Well-known member
Re: Final Design....
I am not a water expert, but I am concerned about campground water quality as many folks are. The things in the water supply that are bad consist of bacteria, viruses, radio activity(uranium), heavy metals and ph level and some things I have never heard of. I am not sure if RO systems remove the radio active elements or improve the PH back to 7.Therefore I use a 5 micro carbon block filter with a water softener for all my needs but drinking. I doubt my dish washer, shower, toilet and washer machine care about those bad things other than sand orparticles in the water. I use bottled water for ingestion and health reasons because the body does not do well without minerals. There may be a small cost savings in the long run with RO, but I am not going broke with my setup and I am not wasting a lot of water (other than flushing my water softener)-- which should be a concern to all of us these days. I can by-passed the water softener in campgroundsthat do not have very hard water.
BTY when I was floating around in submarines, we produced water from the ocean to cool the reactor and general water supply. We injected minerals and stuff back into the drinking water to keep the crew healthy because the water we produced was too pure.
I am not a water expert, but I am concerned about campground water quality as many folks are. The things in the water supply that are bad consist of bacteria, viruses, radio activity(uranium), heavy metals and ph level and some things I have never heard of. I am not sure if RO systems remove the radio active elements or improve the PH back to 7.Therefore I use a 5 micro carbon block filter with a water softener for all my needs but drinking. I doubt my dish washer, shower, toilet and washer machine care about those bad things other than sand orparticles in the water. I use bottled water for ingestion and health reasons because the body does not do well without minerals. There may be a small cost savings in the long run with RO, but I am not going broke with my setup and I am not wasting a lot of water (other than flushing my water softener)-- which should be a concern to all of us these days. I can by-passed the water softener in campgroundsthat do not have very hard water.
BTY when I was floating around in submarines, we produced water from the ocean to cool the reactor and general water supply. We injected minerals and stuff back into the drinking water to keep the crew healthy because the water we produced was too pure.
Hey Dave - thanks again for your feedback. Always appreciate it and I think keeping the conversation going on this topic is healthy. While we all may not always agree, I think we all learn a bit more.
I did pull the trigger on my system. Like you, I'll be filtering my coach water. Where we vary is you're running a Water Softener for all but drinking and I'm running Reverse Osmosis.
Water softeners use Ion Exchange and RO uses filters. Both remove "some" of the same stuff. Each process has a negative artifact. Softeners add some amount of sodium (through the Ion Exchange process) to the water and RO systems alter the pH toward the acid side.
In my case, I will be running a pH filter that will neutralize the acidity of the RO water before it hits my tank or anything else with the goal being a pH of 7. Note that my ability to adjust the pH with a filter is not variable. So I'll get what I get - but I will be monitoring and recording TDS and pH. My friend Michael Kidd just checked his pH and his feed water (5.7) is the same pH (also 5.7) as his RO water after the pH filter. So he could not achieve a neutral pH of 7, but he was able to correct the pH to match what the campground was feeding him.
I will also be running a solid block carbon filter after I pull the RO water from my tank. This "Polishing Filter" does a few things:
1. Further filtering of bacteria etc
2. Add-back of "some" mineral
3. Improvement of water flavor from flat/bland to a bit of body
I agree with you that it's not all about cost savings. My system will take "at least" 2 years to pay-off. For me, my advantages are:
1. Ability to significantly "automate" water production
2. Better water for all uses: clothes washing, dish washing, RV/Truck washing (spot free!), drinking, dogs, cooking etc.
3. Eliminate water spotting on water fixtures, shower walls and glass doors
4. Consistent water pressure throughout the coach, regardless of campground water (I'll be using a pump for 100% of water usage)
5. Better water for our skin
With regard to reactor water, my friend Michael was a Nuclear Reactor Operator on a sub in the Navy. He too told me reactor grade water was among the purest.
I did pull the trigger on my system. Like you, I'll be filtering my coach water. Where we vary is you're running a Water Softener for all but drinking and I'm running Reverse Osmosis.
Water softeners use Ion Exchange and RO uses filters. Both remove "some" of the same stuff. Each process has a negative artifact. Softeners add some amount of sodium (through the Ion Exchange process) to the water and RO systems alter the pH toward the acid side.
In my case, I will be running a pH filter that will neutralize the acidity of the RO water before it hits my tank or anything else with the goal being a pH of 7. Note that my ability to adjust the pH with a filter is not variable. So I'll get what I get - but I will be monitoring and recording TDS and pH. My friend Michael Kidd just checked his pH and his feed water (5.7) is the same pH (also 5.7) as his RO water after the pH filter. So he could not achieve a neutral pH of 7, but he was able to correct the pH to match what the campground was feeding him.
I will also be running a solid block carbon filter after I pull the RO water from my tank. This "Polishing Filter" does a few things:
1. Further filtering of bacteria etc
2. Add-back of "some" mineral
3. Improvement of water flavor from flat/bland to a bit of body
I agree with you that it's not all about cost savings. My system will take "at least" 2 years to pay-off. For me, my advantages are:
1. Ability to significantly "automate" water production
2. Better water for all uses: clothes washing, dish washing, RV/Truck washing (spot free!), drinking, dogs, cooking etc.
3. Eliminate water spotting on water fixtures, shower walls and glass doors
4. Consistent water pressure throughout the coach, regardless of campground water (I'll be using a pump for 100% of water usage)
5. Better water for our skin
With regard to reactor water, my friend Michael was a Nuclear Reactor Operator on a sub in the Navy. He too told me reactor grade water was among the purest.
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