Solution for Floor Problem

[Greengas]

I would like the opinion of fellow Heartland Owners. My Landmark is currently at the dealer for a variety of warranty repairs. Two of the issues involve the floor in the main part of the RV. Specifically bubbling of the vinal in the area of the sink (they found delamination of the wood sub floor) and three indentations on the side of the floor in front of where the rocker recliners go. Heartland has proposed that the dealer put down 1/4 inch luan plywood right over the existing floor and then put down new vinyl. The dealer and I are both concerned that since there is already delmination just putting down new plywood won't fix that problem. The dealer does say that they can adjust the slide to cover the additional height of the floor but is concerned since they can't figure out what is causing or caused the indentations in the floor that just following Heartland's guidance won't even address that.

So, fellow Heartland Owners, what say you. Am I over thinking something and this is a good solid fix or should I try and require that they at least remove the section of the floor that has delaminated? I am now working with Ian at Heartland and he is the regional manager for warranty work. He seems pretty good to work with and has already gotten several items taken care of that were lagging. I also have Kary, the brand manager involved and he has been very helpful. But, I don't want to push back if there is no reason.

I look forward to your considered opinion.

 

[iawoody2]

I guess I would want the whole floor removed and replaced. Putting down a overlay just sounds like a bandaid to me. JMO

 

[JanAndBill]

I second that, I'd want the floor replaced not patched.

 

[danemayer]

Ronn,

Replacing the floor sounds at first like it might be a thorough fix, but I'm wondering what it would mean to replace the floor.

It's a laminated construct with styrofoam, wood, beaufloor surface all glued together. I don't know that it's likely that you could replace the whole laminated floor system. I think the side walls sit on the floor system for one thing. Maybe a section could be replaced, but I wonder how feasible even that would be.

So maybe everyone's thinking of cutting out a big section of the OSB that's under the beaufloor and somehow detaching it from the styrofoam. I'm having trouble imagining that approach working well.

So what to do?

When you use the term "delamination" I assume you mean that the beaufloor surface has come unglued in places and that there may have been water intrusion that caused the delamination. If that's the case, the first repair would be to stabilize and harden the existing wood to make sure there's no rot or continuing deterioration. You might want to call the Rot Doctor company and discuss whether they think their products would be helpful toward this end.

If the existing damage to the wood floor can be stabilized and repaired in place, then replacing the top surface might be a good solution.

 

[Greengas]

Thanks to everyone for the quick response. My gut tells me to push for a solid fix. That is why, one week ago I posted a question about the floor construction under the ATF portion of the forum. Still being new to the forum I'm not sure how ATF is supposed to work and since I've gotten no response from the factory, I figured I'd post a more direct question here.

If the sub floor is a composite of various materials sandwiched together then a complete replacement might be a problem. I am getting the impression that the floor is not simply wood laid on top of joists. So, I guess the next step in making my decision is to get a more detailed explanation of the floor construction. If I can picture it in my mind, I can figure out what needs to be done.

 

[danemayer]

On the Landmark page of the Heartlandrvs.com website, at the top, there's a button to download the Reasons To Buy brochure.

From page 15:

The Main Floor AND Bedroom/Bathroom Floor is one of the
LIGHTEST and STRONGEST FLOORS IN THE INDUSTRY
constructed of strong 2.5” Aluminum Tubing; Thick Block Foam
Insulation; Exterior Grade Floor Decking and a Weatherproof
Thermo-Board Luan bottom. Thick 3” Laminated, Insulated Floor
System provides maximum efficiency.

 

[kakampers]

Your floor is a completely laminated systems, and not only are the walls set down on it, each every cabinet is too....the floor is the first thing attached to the frame and everything else is set on top of it. Complete replacement would be impossible in my opinion....

 

[Greengas]

Thanks again for the quick responses. From what I now know, I agree that complete replacement is not the solution. But, if there is an area of the floor decking that has suffered water damage then it should be and could be replaced. If in fact there is no damage o the sub floor but only separation between the Lino and the wood then removal and reapplying it should work. Of course none of this addresses the indentations in the floor in front of the main slide. But that is another story . Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[jpdoggett]

Make them fix it the right way, cause when the warranty is up at the end of the 1st year they will not do anything to help you. I know this first hand. If they would use a good product on the floor to start with this problem would not happen

 

[fulltime5er]

I would like the opinion of fellow Heartland Owners. My Landmark is currently at the dealer for a variety of warranty repairs. Two of the issues involve the floor in the main part of the RV. Specifically bubbling of the vinal in the area of the sink (they found delamination of the wood sub floor) and three indentations on the side of the floor in front of where the rocker recliners go. Heartland has proposed that the dealer put down 1/4 inch luan plywood right over the existing floor and then put down new vinyl. The dealer and I are both concerned that since there is already delmination just putting down new plywood won't fix that problem. The dealer does say that they can adjust the slide to cover the additional height of the floor but is concerned since they can't figure out what is causing or caused the indentations in the floor that just following Heartland's guidance won't even address that.

So, fellow Heartland Owners, what say you. Am I over thinking something and this is a good solid fix or should I try and require that they at least remove the section of the floor that has delaminated? I am now working with Ian at Heartland and he is the regional manager for warranty work. He seems pretty good to work with and has already gotten several items taken care of that were lagging. I also have Kary, the brand manager involved and he has been very helpful. But, I don't want to push back if there is no reason.

I look forward to your considered opinion.

Ron, is this issue related to the black water flush system issue that you experienced. If I recall, the anti-siphon was cut through and resulted in water damage.

 

[sengli]

Due to the way the floor, walls, and roof are built. I too dont see how they are to replace the floor with out hvaing to dis-assemble the entire coach. Wow that is a tuff issue. This is my second heartland fith wheel rig, and I learned on the first one to not use the black tank flush feature. Mine also leaked very badly the first and only time I used it.

 

[Theresau]

HL repaired our vinyl at the Goshen rally so I got to speak with HL folks while they were doing this. They indicated that they can replace a section of the vinyl and have it look brand new. It was possible that they may have had to do that for us as ours was pretty damaged from the slide and there was a slice in it from what appears was a tool. However, they were able to do "magic" and repaired without replacing.

I guess the way they replace a section is to cut on a seam (I assume yours is the ceramic look...) and then blend the two together. They did this blending on ours by heating it up with a flame and using a crayon to fill it in.

I would want HL to do this repair rather than the dealer....

Thanks to everyone for the quick response. My gut tells me to push for a solid fix. That is why, one week ago I posted a question about the floor construction under the ATF portion of the forum. Still being new to the forum I'm not sure how ATF is supposed to work and since I've gotten no response from the factory, I figured I'd post a more direct question here.

If the sub floor is a composite of various materials sandwiched together then a complete replacement might be a problem. I am getting the impression that the floor is not simply wood laid on top of joists. So, I guess the next step in making my decision is to get a more detailed explanation of the floor construction. If I can picture it in my mind, I can figure out what needs to be done.

 

[Greengas]

HL repaired our vinyl at the Goshen rally so I got to speak with HL folks while they were doing this. They indicated that they can replace a section of the vinyl and have it look brand new. It was possible that they may have had to do that for us as ours was pretty damaged from the slide and there was a slice in it from what appears was a tool. However, they were able to do "magic" and repaired without replacing.

I guess the way they replace a section is to cut on a seam (I assume yours is the ceramic look...) and then blend the two together. They did this blending on ours by heating it up with a flame and using a crayon to fill it in.

I would want HL to do this repair rather than the dealer....

Getting to the factory is just not an option for me. And considering how long this is taking, it looks like this part of the warranty work will have to wait until Spring. I am picking my RV up at Camping World on Wednesday and taking it to its winter home at the Air Force Academy. It looks like they are getting the rest of the items done. They reattached the ladder, it is better but still not rock solid like my SOB ladder was. They rehung the clothing bars in the closet and relocated the slide door bumper. They realigned all the slides so that they now close properly. They caulked where there was no caulk and put a piece of rubber molding under the kitchen slide where one was missing, etc., The are replacing all of the wood trim on the kitchen slide tomorrow and fixing all the other nail hole fill problems along with the shelf supports. I've lost almost 2 months use of RV and I'm not happy with that especially since almost all of the problems were caused by sloppy workmanship at the factory. But, I'm confident that when I get it back and my DW and I are happily ensconced in it, all will be almost forgiven

 

[Greengas]

Ron, is this issue related to the black water flush system issue that you experienced. If I recall, the anti-siphon was cut through and resulted in water damage.

They can't tell me because Heartland has not authorized them to really peal back the vinyl and find out. But, I did have a second flood caused by the pipes under the kitchen sink not being put together correctly and I'm pretty sure that is what caused most of this problem. But still, no authorization to find out for sure. Also, no authorization to really find out what is causing the 3 dimples on the floor in front of the slide. They keep wanting to say it is the rollers, but they are 18" in from the sides and the dimples are in the center. They did check for any debris but none was found. So, their solution to that problem is to cover it with plywood and new vinyl flooring. Like I just said in a previous post, it looks like the floor issue will wait until April when we bring our RV back from its winter home.

 

[Garypowell]

It might be too late to put this in but I had to replace a 3' by 3' section on my last Heartland. It was about 3 years old when the leak started but dumbly I did nothing about it until it was 6 years old. The color of the linoleum started changing but I did not investigate until the floor got soft. I removed the bad section and then put 2 by 2's long enough to reach under the good floor. Then screwed them in place from the top. Countersunk the holes, etc. Once I had this underpinning in place I just cut a piece of plywood to fit the hole. It was like having floor joists.

I had to dig out the foam insulation which was a pain....but once done and the carpet put back down and new piece of linoleum you would never know it happened....and it was solid as a rock.

My point is that the dealership could probably patch the floor this way but totally agree with others above that you should find out and fix what the cause is.

 

[Theresau]

In regard to the indentations - our vinyl always has indentations from the slide or anything heavy. Eventually these go away. For example, we have a moveable island - when we move it to another spot, it will be indented where it had sat. The vinyl is very soft (I guess to prevent cracking in the winter).

In regard to the bubbling - have they definitely determined that there is a problem in the subfloor that caused this? When we built our home, the vinyl bubbled - it was because they had spilt something on the luan before putting it down (I noted the spot before the vinyl was put down and notified the builder and sure enough the vinyl bubbled in the spot). Eventually the bubble settled down but it was a weak spot in the vinyl. (You don't even want to hear the horror stories around that house being built - 1999 during the house building boom.)

Hope this helps.

I would like the opinion of fellow Heartland Owners. My Landmark is currently at the dealer for a variety of warranty repairs. Two of the issues involve the floor in the main part of the RV. Specifically bubbling of the vinal in the area of the sink (they found delamination of the wood sub floor) and three indentations on the side of the floor in front of where the rocker recliners go. Heartland has proposed that the dealer put down 1/4 inch luan plywood right over the existing floor and then put down new vinyl. The dealer and I are both concerned that since there is already delmination just putting down new plywood won't fix that problem. The dealer does say that they can adjust the slide to cover the additional height of the floor but is concerned since they can't figure out what is causing or caused the indentations in the floor that just following Heartland's guidance won't even address that.

So, fellow Heartland Owners, what say you. Am I over thinking something and this is a good solid fix or should I try and require that they at least remove the section of the floor that has delaminated? I am now working with Ian at Heartland and he is the regional manager for warranty work. He seems pretty good to work with and has already gotten several items taken care of that were lagging. I also have Kary, the brand manager involved and he has been very helpful. But, I don't want to push back if there is no reason.

I look forward to your considered opinion.