SOLVED: Battery charging system (Landmark)

[Ann&Ted]

I have a 2015 LM-365 Newport. Per the VIN, it was manufactured in mid 2014. I believe I may have a battery issue. I have several comments and question.

1. I keep the RV plugged into a 50 amp service.

2. An issue came up this morning when the kitchen slide did not want to open. After several attempts of pushing the switch between open and close, the slide finally opened. All three slides opened, but seemed to strain doing so.

2. I pressed the start button on the inverter control panel in the RV and it showed 11.5 VDC and then indicated an E02 error while beeping.

3. The bathroom exhaust fan will not start. Both other fans run fine.

Q1. Should the batteries be charged while the RV is plugged into the 50 amp supply.

Q2. If the answer above is yes, shouldn't the inverter control panel indicate a proper voltage and and show an error condition? Previously, the highest voltage I saw on the control panel was 12.5 VDC.

My concern is that the batteries may be defective at this time and will not take or hold a charge. I purchased the LM-365 in June of this year, so it was a year old already. That means, it sat on a lot without being plugged into a 50 amp service. Then, the last time I had it in for service, it sat for 3 weeks without being plugged. The batteries were dead when I picked it up from the dealer. They had to put a quick charge on the batteries long enough for me to raise the unit to hitch up to the truck. I charged the batteries for several days and they never really charged fully.

Your answers and comments will be most welcome.

 

[danemayer]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Battery charging system

Hi tedrissel,

The first thing you want to do is determine if the batteries are being charged by the Power Converter. This is different from the inverter that powers your residential refrigerator. The Power Converter changes 120V AC into 12V DC and supplies power to the fuse box and to the batteries to keep them charged.

When plugged into shore power, the panel on the auto-level system will cycle around to a setting that shows the voltage being provided by the combination of batteries and power converter output. You should see around 13.5 V on the auto level system if plugged in.

If it shows 12 V or less, the batteries are running down because no power is getting to them from the Power Converter.

In your front compartment, not too far from the batteries, there's a row of 12V DC mini-circuit breakers, probably covered by a red rubber boot. One of those breakers has a teeny-tiny reset button. If the breaker trips, no power gets from the Power Converter to the batteries, and no battery power gets to the inside of the coach. In this case, the batteries run down. The hydraulic motor, which operates some slides and your leveling jacks, gets its power from the batteries, via that same row of circuit breakers. So when the batteries run down, there's not enough power to run the hydraulic pump.

If the bathroom exhaust fan won't run, you may have a problem with the Power Converter not providing any output at all. If you don't see 13.5V at the auto-level screen after pressing the reset button on the circuit breaker, your next stop will be to check the operation of the Power Converter. Start with the 120V circuit breakers. If that's ok, you'll have to take down the rear wall in the pass through basement storage to see if the Power Converter is plugged into its outlet and if its on-board fuses are ok.

Here's a link to our 12V Block Diagram and Diagnostic Manual, which includes some troubleshooting help. The Residential Refrigerator Guide has drawings more reflective of your actual layout.

I'm also attaching some pictures that may help.

 

[boatto5er]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Battery charging system

Unless something has changed, it is the converter, not inverter that charges the battery. The inverter powers the residential refrigerator. Check behind your basement wall to ensure the converter hasn't come unplugged. Also check the voltage at the battery terminals while plugged in to shore power.

 

[Ann&Ted]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Battery charging system

Thanks for the updates. I knew it was the converter that charges the batteries. I was using the inverter control to look at the voltage level that it showed. I will check the converter charging system that was provided by the thread above.
Thanks again

 

[Ann&Ted]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Battery charging system

Great instructions. If it were not for your guidance, I would have never thought that one small item was a circuit breaker, since it looks like the rest of the connectors on the buss bar. I small button was popped, I just pressed it and now my charging system is working. I am crossing my fingers that takes care of the issue. At least, my voltmeter indicates that the system is actually charging.

Thanks again.

 

[Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Battery charging system

Dan have you lost count of how many people you have helped with that reset button info.?????

 

[rxbristol]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Battery charging system

Dan have lost count of how many people you have helped with that reset button info.?????

I was one of them.

 

[Rodbuster]

What makes that "reset button" pop in the first place?

Dick

 

[danemayer]

What makes that "reset button" pop in the first place?

Dick

Dick,

In reading about this breaker tripping over the last 5 years, I think you may be the first to ask why. It's a 50 amp circuit breaker, so I'd guess that there was a transient that caused more than 50 amps to flow through it long enough to trip the breaker. What caused the transient? Maybe the hydraulic pump was drawing more than 50 amps while on shore power and this breaker was more sensitive than the one on that circuit. Connecting/disconnecting the battery? Just guesses though.

 

[rxbristol]

It has happened to me on two different rigs, both times it was after the dealer installed a new battery before delivery.

 

[Rodbuster]

Dick,

In reading about this breaker tripping over the last 5 years, I think you may be the first to ask why. It's a 50 amp circuit breaker, so I'd guess that there was a transient that caused more than 50 amps to flow through it long enough to trip the breaker. What caused the transient? Maybe the hydraulic pump was drawing more than 50 amps while on shore power and this breaker was more sensitive than the one on that circuit. Connecting/disconnecting the battery? Just guesses though.

Dan, there are "guesses" and there are educated guesses.
Your explanation sounds good to me.

Thank you
Dick

 

[wdk450]

Gang:
This charger circuit breaker trip may be due to the batteries being especially worked in lifting the trailer off of the truck THEN plugging in the shore power cord which energizes the always-on converter/charger. I am thinking that at least in my rig the charger/converter output (60 amp?) is greater than the 50 amp trailer circuit breaker between the charger and the battery system. Thus, at the moment of shore power connection, the converter output may exceed the circuit breaker rating in trying with all its output to recharge the batteries depleted from the task of lifting the front half of the trailer.

In order to minimize and strategically locate the AC electrical arcing that always happens to some extent when electrical loads are connected, I follow this step-by-step routine when arriving at a space:
1. Park, level side-to-side, and chock wheels.
2. Connect shore power cable, turn on pedestal breaker. Check for no shock from trailer frame with non-contact voltage tester.
3. Go inside, observe voltage conditions readings on Progressive EMS readout.
4. Turn ON previously turned off (at previous departure) trailer AC main circuit breakers. This now applies AC power to the trailer.
5. Go back outside, raise hitch from truck and unhitch. (Doing it this way lets the converter output assist the batteries in lifting the trailer hitch).
6. Level trailer front-to-back and lower rear stabilizers.

I pretty much depart in reverse order of this list. This schedule puts the (small) AC switching arc on my internal mains circuit breakers (NOT on the park's shore outlet and my shore plug), and gives the batteries all of the assistance from the converter/charger.

 

[kseagle]

We had the same problem (batteries not charging) last winter while on travel. Turned out that the converter came unplugged. It's a 110v normal plug that had worked itself loose during travel. Dealer turned the converter around (so you can see the plug and on light through the vent) then secured the plug so that it wouldn't come unplugged again. Simple fix, once the problem was ID'd but if Heartland would have secured the plug to begin with it would have saved them a lot of $$$ and us a lot of frustration.

 

[avvidclif]

Gang:
This charger circuit breaker trip may be due to the batteries being especially worked in lifting the trailer off of the truck THEN plugging in the shore power cord which energizes the always-on converter/charger. I am thinking that at least in my rig the charger/converter output (60 amp?) is greater than the 50 amp trailer circuit breaker between the charger and the battery system. Thus, at the moment of shore power connection, the converter output may exceed the circuit breaker rating in trying with all its output to recharge the batteries depleted from the task of lifting the front half of the trailer.

In order to minimize and strategically locate the AC electrical arcing that always happens to some extent when electrical loads are connected, I follow this step-by-step routine when arriving at a space:
1. Park, level side-to-side, and chock wheels.
2. Connect shore power cable, turn on pedestal breaker. Check for no shock from trailer frame with non-contact voltage tester.
3. Go inside, observe voltage conditions readings on Progressive EMS readout.
4. Turn ON previously turned off (at previous departure) trailer AC main circuit breakers. This now applies AC power to the trailer.
5. Go back outside, raise hitch from truck and unhitch. (Doing it this way lets the converter output assist the batteries in lifting the trailer hitch).
6. Level trailer front-to-back and lower rear stabilizers.

I pretty much depart in reverse order of this list. This schedule puts the (small) AC switching arc on my internal mains circuit breakers (NOT on the park's shore outlet and my shore plug), and gives the batteries all of the assistance from the converter/charger.

One thing I do different.

Breakers are not meant to be used as switches therefore mine are never touched unless they trip (hasn't happened). I Plug into shore power and turn on the pedestal power. I listen for the "klunk" of the Progressive contactor. I let the lifetime warrantied heavy duty contactor in the Progressive EMS take the hit on the small arc, not my breakers, the contactor is designed for it. If no "klunk" find out what is wrong with pedestal power.

 

[dave10a]

If the batteries are requiring a high charge and try to use the leveling system or slide outs at the same time the 50 amp breaker will trip and require a manual reset. The breaker is rated at 50 amps and the battery charger is capable of greater than 70 amps. So when one adds up the total current demand for charging low batteries with the additional demand for running the hydraulic pump the current rating of the breaker has been exceeded. Heartland should have put am 80 amp breaker and larger wires in the charging circuit to have a properly designed circuit. Heartland an may other manufactures cut too many corners for he 12v and 120 volt circuits with minimal wire and breakers sizes.

 

[TedS]

Dave10a, does the converter draw 70amps@120vac or deliver 70amps@12vdc?

 

[dave10a]

Dave10a, does the converter draw 70amps@120vac or deliver 70amps@12vdc?

Mine delivers 70 amps. The newer Landmarks deliver more.

 

[avvidclif]

My Cyclone is an 80A.

 

[wdk450]

One thing I do different.

Breakers are not meant to be used as switches therefore mine are never touched unless they trip (hasn't happened). I Plug into shore power and turn on the pedestal power. I listen for the "klunk" of the Progressive contactor. I let the lifetime warrantied heavy duty contactor in the Progressive EMS take the hit on the small arc, not my breakers, the contactor is designed for it. If no "klunk" find out what is wrong with pedestal power.

Clif:
Here is the reasoning behind my power hookup/disconnect procedures: If the power load is switched anywhere else besides the inside mains breakers, the arcing of the load (power converter, refrigerator, etc.) will happen at the Progressive EMS protection main relay. That relay is not readily available at local parts sources. Unless you crawl into the utilities space and bypass the EMS box, you will not have 120 volt AC electrical for several days. If the EMS relay contacts are fried, the bypass switch for the EMS will not provide you power.

The inside breaker panel is easily accessible for breaker replacement, I found the exact same dual 50 amp breaker at Home Depot for about $10, and have bought one for emergency replacement if needed. I know that the Progressive EMS has a lifetime warranty, but if you had to pay for the replacement relay contactor for the EMS, I would expect it to cost you $50 to $75. Typically Progressive has you send them the box, they repair it, and send it back to you; a turn around time of at least a week including weekends and shipping time. I would rather try to avoid that.