Surge Protector for 2015 Cyclone 50amp

[scottyb]

When I installed the HW50C, I decided to screw the remote to the basement wall as a temporary fix. We were getting ready to head out to west Texas for a week. The 1st pedestal I connected to, only had one hot leg. The display showed me what was going on while I was standing beside the pedestal and we had to move. I decided to leave it there so I could see it every time I plugged into a new pedestal. If I could only have one remote, I would prefer it to be near the UDC, where I can see what's happening when you flip the breaker on. A 2nd remote inside would just be a bonus.

 

[fredwrichardson]

I would go with the EMS. Top of the line protection.
If you have any basic skills and are comfortable you can do the install yourself.
I put the remote monitor in the storage compartment on the plug in side so I can check it when I hook up.
The unit is mounted in the basement behind the wall , had to place it where it would fit and just cut the main feed wire for the install .

Totally agree. I would not hook up anywhere without EMS. The investment is very small vs. the benefits.

 

[wdk450]

When I installed the HW50C, I decided to screw the remote to the basement wall as a temporary fix. We were getting ready to head out to west Texas for a week. The 1st pedestal I connected to, only had one hot leg. The display showed me what was going on while I was standing beside the pedestal and we had to move. I decided to leave it there so I could see it every time I plugged into a new pedestal. If I could only have one remote, I would prefer it to be near the UDC, where I can see what's happening when you flip the breaker on. A 2nd remote inside would just be a bonus.

According to the Progressive EMS FAQ's page, you can add a 2nd remote display to the unit to have a display inside at your electrical control panel, and a display in the docking center area to check power as you connect it: (See last item on this page) http://www.progressiveindustries.net/faqs.htm .

Here is the Tweedy's listing on this. A little pricey, and what it REALLY IS is a switch for switching the signal from the EMS box to the selected display, and a 2nd display: http://tweetys.com/extra-digital-remote-display.aspx

 

[OEFVET]

For a Cyclone can anyone advise where it is installed? I will install after transfer switch so I think it needs to be installed in the pass through storage compartment. Can anyone confirm?

 

[jnbhobe]

Mine is just before the main breaker box

 

[boatto5er]

Mine is similar to what Jon said. There was a lot (well SOME) room just behind the breaker panel. I was actually ably to install the EMS from inside the trailer by removing the Fire Extinguishers bracket and the Breaker Box. There was plenty of wiring to allow the Breaker Box to be moved about 18 inches out of the way. I was able to mount it t the flooring behind the Breaker Box also (used a short screwdriver). I mounted my display in the closet right above the Breaker Box, just inside the doorway.

 

[NWILSON]

As I mentioned ours is in the "island" in the kitchen. The first pic is of the back of the circuit breaker panel and DC fuse panel. The other pics show the Surge Guard mounted on the trim box that covers the wiring cluster behind those panels.

 

[OEFVET]

Mine is similar to what Jon said. There was a lot (well SOME) room just behind the breaker panel. I was actually ably to install the EMS from inside the trailer by removing the Fire Extinguishers bracket and the Breaker Box. There was plenty of wiring to allow the Breaker Box to be moved about 18 inches out of the way. I was able to mount it t the flooring behind the Breaker Box also (used a short screwdriver). I mounted my display in the closet right above the Breaker Box, just inside the doorway.

Wow, that is great! it will make running the wire for the display so much easier. Thank you all for your help. For some reason I thought it needed to be closer to the shore power plug. This will make installation much better.

 

[wdk450]

After reading some of the postings on this thread I was thinking about somehow connecting a 2nd EMS readout outside, but then I got to thinking about my space arrive/departure written checklist steps. I always turn off the mains circuit breakers on the inside panel before disconnecting the shore power cord next to last thing before departing; upon campsite arrival I hook up and energize the shore power connection, then go inside, check the EMS readout, and if all is good flip on the mains circuit breakers. If anything is wrong with the EMS readout numbers the EMS should not pass the power thru its main relay, and I would NOT turn on the trailer's mains breakers until the power was good. I follow this routine mainly to reduce arcing wear on the EMS power switching relay (this way it switches with no trailer electrical load on it).

I use my inside EMS readout many times each day, especially when on 30 amp power, to prevent overloading and tripping the 30 amp campsite pedestal circuit breaker. Just this morning I had the microwave going, the induction cooktop, and the toaster. I looked at the readout and saw that this put me over 30 amps and immediately switched off the toaster before the pedestal breaker could trip (saving me a trip outside in the cold early morning fog here). Luckily, there is a short overcurrent time delay in the circuit breakers before they trip.

 

[porthole]

For a Cyclone can anyone advise where it is installed? I will install after transfer switch so I think it needs to be installed in the pass through storage compartment. Can anyone confirm?

My suggestion would be to pull the wire from the panel to the transfer switch at the transfer switch. Then figure out where you can install the EMS based on using the wire you already have from the panel.
Then you only need to buy one length of wire from the transfer switch to the EMS. Spend the money to buy at least a foot more then you think you need.
If you spring a little extra for "SO" cable you will appreciate it later as you try and wrestle 4 pieces of 6 gauge around. And while you are at it with everything opened up and disconnected form shore power, make sure all the breakers and any terminals or lugs are tight

Here is my rig with the two display option.
If I have to do this again on the next trailer i would once again opt for the 2 displays. It is a luxury, but also a convenience.

//heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/11365-And-so-it-begins?p=135047&viewfull=1#post135047

 

[avvidclif]

I went out this beautiful afternoon with the intent the install my EMS-50. I removed it from the previous trailer before selling it so am familiar with the install and removal.

Trailer is a 2015 Cyclone CY3418 with the generator

The power comes in on the street side next to the compartment with the water etc. I had previously had to turn the socket 90 deg so knew about the wire to it. The breaker box and fuse panel is on the opposite wall so I removed the panel on the curb side in the basement. Laying in front of me was a section of 6/3 coming from the other side and headed to the back of the breaker box. I figured this was going to be a piece of cake, cut the wire and put the EMS inline. To confirm I removed the basement panel on the street side and found 2 6/3 wires, uh oh.

Up jumped the boogie man. After some serious looking and thinking here's what I found. The power comes in on the street side and goes straight to the transfer switch mounted on the streetside to the rear of the water pump and a mass of water piping. I just barely could see it and couldn't figure out a way to get to it much less break the lead from the AC power socket on the side of the trailer to install the EMS. I would have preferred to install the EMS where the AC power comes into the trailer and before the transfer switch and everything else. No go unless someone has a clue how to get at the transfer switch. The two 6/3 wires from the transfer switch go to the breaker panel and the generator leaving me the option of after the transfer switch or buying a portable unit.

Any thoughts as to installing it after the transfer switch, pros and cons?

 

[danemayer]

Hi avvidclif,

If you install it after the transfer switch, it will also protect against transfer switch failures. While not very common, they do occasionally fail. A failure on the neutral line in the transfer switch can be serious. You'll also be protect from problems on the generator side. They're also very rare, but at least one person has had a problem at the J-Box in between the generator and transfer switch. Again, a problem on the neutral wiring can be serious.

 

[avvidclif]

Seeing where the transfer switch is if it failed it would probably be cheaper to buy a new rv. I think they installed it and built the RV around it.

 

[Terry H]

Cliff,

I installed my EMS-50 after the transfer switch on purpose and it works fine. After the install I ran the generator to test the EMS and I did not have any problems.

 

[porthole]

Did my EMS on the Cyclone after the transfer switch. Next rig will be the same.

 

[wdk450]

I went out this beautiful afternoon with the intent the install my EMS-50. I removed it from the previous trailer before selling it so am familiar with the install and removal.

Trailer is a 2015 Cyclone CY3418 with the generator

The power comes in on the street side next to the compartment with the water etc. I had previously had to turn the socket 90 deg so knew about the wire to it. The breaker box and fuse panel is on the opposite wall so I removed the panel on the curb side in the basement. Laying in front of me was a section of 6/3 coming from the other side and headed to the back of the breaker box. I figured this was going to be a piece of cake, cut the wire and put the EMS inline. To confirm I removed the basement panel on the street side and found 2 6/3 wires, uh oh.

Up jumped the boogie man. After some serious looking and thinking here's what I found. The power comes in on the street side and goes straight to the transfer switch mounted on the streetside to the rear of the water pump and a mass of water piping. I just barely could see it and couldn't figure out a way to get to it much less break the lead from the AC power socket on the side of the trailer to install the EMS. I would have preferred to install the EMS where the AC power comes into the trailer and before the transfer switch and everything else. No go unless someone has a clue how to get at the transfer switch. The two 6/3 wires from the transfer switch go to the breaker panel and the generator leaving me the option of after the transfer switch or buying a portable unit.

Any thoughts as to installing it after the transfer switch, pros and cons?

Could you possibly access the transfer switch wiring cables a little away from the transfer switch? Then you could cut and splice in new cabling to the EMS-50 as needed. Just make quality splices for the 50 amp circuits.

 

[avvidclif]

Here is a picture of the side of the trailer. The transfer switch is behind the small storage compartment below the fridge vent. I can see it thru the basement looking toward the rear of the trailer behind all the plumbing including the pump. The storage compartment doesn't come out, easily anyway. The wire goes from the plug over to the switch. Not very long and not accessible.

Any ideas? Secret trap door?

 

[porthole]

Seems to be a first. Every other Cyclone picture I have seen of the transfer switch had it located about in the middle of the basement behind the rear wall, mounted to the wood frame for the wall mount. Easily accessible.
If yours is going to be that difficult to get to, the options I envision are:

Do nothing
Move the transfer switch to an easily accessible location, odds are somewhere down the road you may need to access it (not uncommon for the lugs holding the wires to not be as tight as they should be).
Pull the wires from the panel box and wire in the EMS near the panel
Remove the square door, remove the 50 amp shore power receptacle. Put the EMS in line in that void.

 

[avvidclif]

It kinda surprised me too. The spot you are talking about has the PD 9280 Converter (IIRC). Easy to replace and then they buried the transfer switch. I'll probably leave it where it is unless our local friendly factory rep can come up with a solution to get to it. On the plus side putting it in the line to the breaker box is easy. On the curb side in the basement if you remove the panel the wire is laying there before it curves to the back to hook up to the breaker box. No wire needed. Just cut and stick the box inline. It would have made a lot more sense to run the wire from the socket across the trailer and put the transfer switch on the curb side as the hookup for the generator is there also. Lots of room and easy access if a problem.

 

[avvidclif]

I finally got around to following up on my surge suppressor install. I got my remote eyeball out (fiberoptic viewer) and looked at the transfer switch. It was a PD52 as Jim said. Problem was it wasn't the PD52S which has built in surge suppression which meant I wanted my EMS unit before the transfer switch. Back to the drawing board as the only way I saw to get to the transfer switch was thru a small storage compartment below the fridge. I started taking out screws and after a bit the back wall came out and the left side wall. Glory be, the transfer switch was right in front of me. Not a lot of room but doable. I mounted the PI EMS50 on top of the transfer switch. The shore power and generator input on the left and output to the breaker panel to the right so I oriented the EMS, input on the left, and moved the shore power wire to it. 3' of 6/3 w/g came out of the right side, curved around the back and into the input to the Transfer switch. The remote indicator is mounted in the basement wall for the time being (translation, after 1 week it becomes permanent) until I can route it to the other side and up to the main control panel. Hooked it up and it worked. Put it all back together and that's one more project done. (half way anyway).

The first picture shows the compartment in question (operating grease in fridge compartment, actually before you panic this was the after shot). The second shows the compartment. The third shows the install. Yep that thing to the left of the transfer/EMS setup is the water pump. Spring a leak and fun times for all. I didn't design this mess just working around it. Probably at some point in the future when I get bored I will move the transfer/EMS setup to the other side behind the vacuum. That's where the wire for the generator and breaker panel is and they cross over to the other side. If I move the Transfer then the Shore power line will be the only line across the RV rather than 2 (generator and return from transfer sw).



As expected the area I was working in was covered in metal shavings and sawdust. Someone needs to donate a shop vac to Heartland and show them where the on/off switch is. Cleaning up the visible parts after it's assembled doesn't do much for the hidden mess.