Tire Problems? Some Facts from a Tire Engineer

[brianharrison]

Tires will also pass over a pot hole with less impact with higher speed vs lower speed. But this also depends on the dynamics of each particular tire.

This is an interesting comment. Can you please elaborate on your thought process.

As Dan mentioned, I too remember Force = Mass * Acceleration, or in the case of an object in motion (tire) hitting a pot hole (object at rest), Force=Mass*Deceleration. Therefore, the faster the wheel is travelling, the more force on the tire when it hits the object at rest (pothole). The rate of deceleration is greater as the change in velocity from a higher speed occurs at a similar rate as does from a lower speed. Ibid --> higher Force, (Mass is the same in both cases).

Higher force would be capable of more damage on a tire.

I am interested in your thoughts.....

More info on Force at wiki....

Brian

 

[scottwoo]

I think I'll stay away from the GY's and go with the Sailun LT's. G rated, 110psi, and hopefully no problems.

 

[danemayer]

My comment was more about forces being applied to the suspension, frame, pinbox, and everything inside the trailer.

I'm sure RVs could be designed to do well at speeds up to 90 mph, at higher cost, but they're not. When I hear about friends towing 800 miles in a day, obviously at very high speed, I just shake my head. Later I hear about all the repairs they've had on their "crappy" trailer (SOB by the way). The two discussions seem like they might be related.

 

[scottwoo]

My comment was more about forces being applied to the suspension, frame, pinbox, and everything inside the trailer.

I'm sure RVs could be designed to do well at speeds up to 90 mph, at higher cost, but they're not. When I hear about friends towing 800 miles in a day, obviously at very high speed, I just shake my head. Later I hear about all the repairs they've had on their "crappy" trailer (SOB by the way). The two discussions seem like they might be related.

Yes sir, I hear ya. Texas is a big 'ol state as you know, and sometimes 60-65 just prolongs the agony in my case. Going through metro areas I definitely slow it down to the posted limits which is usually <60. Too many obstacles, bumps, and idiot drivers to deal with at higher speeds. But when you get into the vast open highways with posted limits at 80mph, I dont see a problem with cruising at 70+ with appropriately rated tires. Thanks for your input.

 

[dave10a]

I tow with my cruise set at 62 and enjoy the ride and great American scenery because I realize my rig is not an eighteen wheeler which designed for much high speed. My Goodyear LT are half worn down with no signs of eminent doom I think Goodyear is happy at speeds less than 65 so I'm good.

 

[lwmcguir]

I think I'll stay away from the GY's and go with the Sailun LT's. G rated, 110psi, and hopefully no problems.

Curious about Warranty on t Sailun's, local dealers don't offer any warranty

 

[scottwoo]

Curious about Warranty on t Sailun's, local dealers don't offer any warranty

Cant be any worse than the Towmax warranty...at least in my dealings. I know GY has a great warranty, but from what I've read on here, a LOT of people seem to have to use the warranty which translates into "not really fixing the blowout problem"
.

 

[danemayer]

If you're choosing Sailun to save money, that's one thing. If you're choosing it to get a better tire because no one is reporting Sailun blowouts, that's another thing. There aren't enough Sailuns in use to compare meaningfully against GY G614s.

 

[Grey Ghost]

I'm sick of sitting along side the interstate because of tire problems. I used to run Michelin Ribs after blowing out a set of Carliese (sp) tires. Now I've blown a Power King Tow Max and dealing with Dynamic Tire Corp out of Canada. Tires on there way to Canada as we speak, don't know how this will turn out but at least they asked and paid for returning the tires and requested damage quotes on the 5ver. Anyhow, I've put four new Michelin M/S 2's (LT) in hopes of solving my problem. Also Heartland was helpful and also the distributor helped file the claim with the manufacture (Dynamic Tire Corp). We will see what happens.

 

[scottwoo]

If you're choosing Sailun to save money, that's one thing. If you're choosing it to get a better tire because no one is reporting Sailun blowouts, that's another thing. There aren't enough Sailuns in use to compare meaningfully against GY G614s.

I havnt seen anyone on here or elsewhere have anything but good things to say about the Sailuns. That speaks for itself. I've seen plenty of bad things about the GY's on here also...money is not an object when it comes to the safety of my family. I would go with the Michelin XPS ribs, but I dont like the low weight ratings on them...3042lbs, not enough for me.

 

[mattpopp]

This is an interesting comment. Can you please elaborate on your thought process.

As Dan mentioned, I too remember Force = Mass * Acceleration, or in the case of an object in motion (tire) hitting a pot hole (object at rest), Force=Mass*Deceleration. Therefore, the faster the wheel is travelling, the more force on the tire when it hits the object at rest (pothole). The rate of deceleration is greater as the change in velocity from a higher speed occurs at a similar rate as does from a lower speed. Ibid --> higher Force, (Mass is the same in both cases).

Higher force would be capable of more damage on a tire.

I am interested in your thoughts.....

More info on Force at wiki....

Brian

Well, my thinking could be completely wrong but I will try to explain it. But first, remember a tire its self is a acting suspension.

At slow speeds a tire will roll over a object. But the faster to attempt to roll over a object the tire will began to deform to shape its self around the object you are attempting to roll over. A tire won't completely deform to absorb a object but what the tire absorbs isnt transferred to the suspension and trailer. But the faster you roll over a object the more force is applied to the tire which could to roll further through that object. What portion of the tire that can't deform and roll through the object forces the tire up transferring that schlock to the trailer. But that tire deforming is greatly dictated by the side walls of the tire. Tires like the 614 probably won't deform much but the ST Towmax will.

My point is the tire will roll through a object but it needs a great force to make this happen. No force and the tire will not have the energy to roll through it but rather over it.

The thought on pot holes. Faster you go the less time the tire has in the hole for gravity to pull it down. Think of a golf green. If you roll a golf ball slow up to the hole it drops in. But if you roll the ball several fsp faster it will skip right over the hole. Same theory is true for tires and pot holes.


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[lwmcguir]

I havnt seen anyone on here or elsewhere have anything but good things to say about the Sailuns. That speaks for itself. I've seen plenty of bad things about the GY's on here also...money is not an object when it comes to the safety of my family. I would go with the Michelin XPS ribs, but I dont like the low weight ratings on them...3042lbs, not enough for me.

If money isn't an object then why are you not installing 17.5's and minimizing your possible tire issues. A tire that a dealer wont warranty would concern me regarding safety. As another poste note, many root causes of tire failure are never fixed.

 

[Grey Ghost]

I had Michelin RIBS on my Alfa and had no problems after blowing out a ton of Carlise (sp) tires before. Now I had Power King Tow Max on my Greystone and blow them out also, dealing with the manufacture on this item, another story in it self!! Anyhow, I've put the Michelin M/S 2's on the Greystone because it only weights about 9400 lbs dry and I never carry more than 1500 lbs of stuff, if that. They are rated good enough for the Greystone and what I put in it. Michelin is the way to go, plus if you do have a problem they will stand behind their product, or so I'm told. Unlike Yokohama,Carlisese (sp) or some other off brands. I've heard the Sailun's are a good tire, but haven't heard of too many people using them so don't know about them. My vote is for Michelin Light Truck tires!!

 

[Grey Ghost]

Power King Tow Max tires are now in Canada being reviewed. They said it might take 2 weeks or more to get an answer to me so we will see how this goes. I'm not holding out much hope, but maybe they will do the right thing and at least assist with the replacement cost of the tires and cost to repair my 5ver.

 

[tireman9]

Hum, Statistics and assumptions really isn't scientific method or a type of engineering principles. Though his ability to look at a failed tire to suggest how it failed is pretty impressive.

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Thanks. That was afterall my job. I have even given a training seminar to engineers at US DOT in Washington. This knowledge comes from doing many thousands of tire autopsies. Many times we see trends so it may almost look like magic to some who have no real life experience is forensic inspection. If you have been reading my blog you have seen the photographic evidence of a few inspections where I point out the evidence that supports the conclusion that a tire was run significantly under inflated at highway speeds for a number of miles.

 

[tireman9]

Tireman9, I understand what you are saying about us all jumping to conclusions related to ST tires and made in China. So what is so wrong with using LT tires on trailers? I look at a lot of trailer forums too and have not, to my limited memory, heard any negative issues about LT tire use.

As long as you are sure the LT tire is capable of handling the actual tire load based on knowing the individual tire loads I see nothing wrong with using LT type tires. The problem is that few people make the effort to learn the real per tire load.
HERE is a link to a site with instructions on how to properly calculate actual loads.

 

[tireman9]

I would speak to the HL customer service before sending them to Dynamic. As HL may want them to inspect them their self to see the evidence of the poor quality tires.


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Quite frankly I would be amazed if Heartland had anyone on staff or even on-call with failed tire inspection training. There is even a difference in experience between the "Sales Engineers" that make decisions on giving an adjustment on tires and the small number of "forensic" engineers in the tire industry that do actual cut tire autopsies. My experience indicates that even the 3 largest tire manufacturers in the US have only a handful of engineers with such experience.

 

[tireman9]

I too have lost three Towmax's on my 2012 Cyclone 3800 T/H and want to go with a more reliable tire. Towing at 18k # and cruising at 70-75mph in the Texas heat, I'm looking at the Sailun S637's and the Michelin XPS ribs...any thoughts on these two tires and any recommendations on a tire to run at these weights and speeds??

Were you "cruising at 70-75mph in the Texas heat" on St type tires? You do realize the ST type tire has a "Red Line" Speed limit rating of 65 mph. Like your engine it might be possible to run at or exceed the "Red Line" but you will be giving up major amounts of tire and engine life by doing so.

 

[tireman9]

Take it easy guys, I realize that I'm "exceeding" the tires' recommended speed rating. I personally don't think that alone would cause three of them to disintegrate, but who knows. What I'm interested in and am asking for your opinions om, is a recommendation on a tire that will allow me to run at 70-75mph at these weights. Thanks

OK what are the actual tire loads? I don't mean GAWR or the total of all the axles but the actual load as measured on a scale for each tire on the TT?
If you don't have access to individual scales you can use this site for instructions.
Once you provide the actual loads and your current size I can offer a size & load range suggestion.

You do realize that 75 will be your new Red Line and that doesn't mean 76.

 

[TheLindsays]

Mr. Tireman, We have a 2013 Torque TQ261 .. we have ST235/80R15E tires that we already had a defective tire that developed a bubble on the inside and the belts were all wavy... the manufacture replaced the one and the dealer we took it to has checked the rest twice for us in the last few months just to make sure no other issues and they said they are fine. I hear everyone talking about all different kinds and brands and types etc.. we want to replace our tires this coming spring... can you tell me what kind/brand/type we should replace them with so that we don't have to worry as much about failure.. we do cover our tires all the time... drive 65 or lower especially in warm temps and use tire minders. Thanks for your knowledge and help... Julie