Towmax Tire Warranty???
- Thread starter Huey
- Start date
I too can not believe Heartland is not doing something about this. We should stand in front of all dealers selling Heartland with these tires and hold up signs that warn people. Perhaps then the dealers will do something, like refuse to sell Heartland with these tires. A very good friend of mine has a 2012 Big Country and within a month two of the tires blew out on the interstate causing a lot of damage. He is a good driver and managed to stop safely. What if he had not been that good? With so much information history on line about this problem I would be sure all those involved in condoning a problem wherein safety issues were well known would be liable. I hate to think what will happen next. I have a 2013 Bighorn and have repeatedly reported by concerns to Heartland and the TOWMAX distributor. I have been told that until they fail nothing can be done. Everytime I get on the road I drive in fear. I can only hope if they blow I can react as good as my friend and no one gets hurt.
One hour before taking delivery on my 3650BH last July, I stopped at CW and purchased a Tireminder. Last night the front right blew out not more than one minute after seeing 76 psi and 87f temp. Speed was 68 mph. This RV has 2750 miles on it and that includes an estimated 1500 from the factory to dealer. Never in my ownership have the tires been under pressure, over temperature or run at excess speeds. Now I sit in a park with a torn up fender skirt.
VIN EE271290
VIN EE271290
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
So sorry you had a blowout! But I am questioning your comments about "Never in my ownership have the tires been under pressure, over temperature or run at excess speeds."
By stating the tire was at 76psi, and 68mph, that is under pressure (80psi) and over the speed rating (65mph) of the tire. What was the ambient temperature at the time?
Unfortunately, you also don't know what abuse may have occurred prior to you taking delivery. Transport drivers typically try to deliver a trailer as fast as possible.
I believe there is a warranty for the TowMax, but my recommendation is swap all for something better.
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DW_Gray
Well-known member
Billy, I guess you haven't read Step 5 at Fifthwheelst.com.
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Oldtime1947
Member
These towmax tires are the pits. Under 5000 miles and two blowouts and 5000 dollars damage. Researched and found that most dealers forget to advise you that you should not go over 65 miles an hours with ST tires. I also found that Maxxus tires are one of the best on the market. I have changed my tires out and the store told me 65 would be the best speed. It is a shame that Heartland will not do anything about the fact they furnish substandard tires. I suggest that anyone buying a new Heartland make it part of the deal to change the tires to whatever preference the buyer has in tires.
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
My understanding is that all 2015 Bighorn, Big Country and Landmark have Saliun tires now.
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mobilcastle
Well-known member
I am glad to hear that. My rig came from the factory with Sailon. They are super tires.
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SeattleLion
Well-known member
I don't doubt the unhappiness with ST failures. I do question quality statements from people with new Sialon or any other tires that haven't failed. That is not an indication that they won't fail. Come back after 20,000 miles and report. I am not necessarily a Towmax fan. I have them on my new Bighorn. However, I think investing another $1,500 to replace them isn't justified based on anecdotal evidence on a forum. Here's why I say that:
Towmax tires are on most new TT's and fifth wheels. There must be well over a million on the road. The side of the highways are not littered with RV blowouts. There needs to be more information to truly say that Towmax is worse than any other tire. Apples to apples, ya know. Also, it's important to understand the load conditions of the trailer when evaluating failures. I weighed my Bignorn last weekend. It has 11,500 lbs on the trailer tires. That comes down to 2,875 lbs per tire. I believe the Towmax is rated at 3,500 lbs/tire. That means I am loaded 82% of tire capacity. I have 7,000 lb axles. So, from a load perspective the "E" tires are fine. We drive 60mph or lower at all times and monitor pressure and temp. We have 80psi in all four tires when we leave.
Does that mean I won't have a blowout? Nope. Do GY tires fail...they do. Lots of reports on the forums. Do you see less reports? Yes. Why? One reason is that there are a lot less GY tires out there. The big question is: Will I avoid a blowout if I change out from the Towmax? No one can say I will. Will a LT tire reduce the chances of a failure? People here say it will, but no statistical evidence to support that.
One of the big problems with making decisions after reading an Internet forum is that all of the evidence is anecdotal. In the case of a product we use and can compare, like a TV or Satellite dish, anecdotes are really helpful. But with tires, it seems to me it is different. How many people are motivated to post that they are not having a tire failure with the OEM tires? There is really no motivation. As a customer, I didn't decide I wanted them. They just came on the trailer as standard. So naturally you will find many more failure reports here than happiness with the tires.
Another thing that bothers me a bit is the attack on Heartland that they buy the cheap tires (bothTowmax and Sailon are Chinese as are most tires nowadays) just to save money. Well, that may be the case, but I doubt it. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that price is a critical factor in Heartland tire selection. Every extra dollar of cost increases the price to the customer. I'll bet that the switch to Sailon was not based on quality, but price. However, only Heartland knows why they did it. The change itself is not evidence that either brand is better.
By the way, I am not defending Towmax. Our fiver has about 3,000 miles on it (2,500 from the factory and 500 from us) and the tires are still ok. I am posting this because I wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence is not terribly helpful. Of course if you have the extra money burning a hole in your pocket, buying new tires is just as good a way to spend it as any other. I would be much happier if I could get some statistics on actual failures of the various ST and LT tires. Then I could make an informed decision.
Towmax tires are on most new TT's and fifth wheels. There must be well over a million on the road. The side of the highways are not littered with RV blowouts. There needs to be more information to truly say that Towmax is worse than any other tire. Apples to apples, ya know. Also, it's important to understand the load conditions of the trailer when evaluating failures. I weighed my Bignorn last weekend. It has 11,500 lbs on the trailer tires. That comes down to 2,875 lbs per tire. I believe the Towmax is rated at 3,500 lbs/tire. That means I am loaded 82% of tire capacity. I have 7,000 lb axles. So, from a load perspective the "E" tires are fine. We drive 60mph or lower at all times and monitor pressure and temp. We have 80psi in all four tires when we leave.
Does that mean I won't have a blowout? Nope. Do GY tires fail...they do. Lots of reports on the forums. Do you see less reports? Yes. Why? One reason is that there are a lot less GY tires out there. The big question is: Will I avoid a blowout if I change out from the Towmax? No one can say I will. Will a LT tire reduce the chances of a failure? People here say it will, but no statistical evidence to support that.
One of the big problems with making decisions after reading an Internet forum is that all of the evidence is anecdotal. In the case of a product we use and can compare, like a TV or Satellite dish, anecdotes are really helpful. But with tires, it seems to me it is different. How many people are motivated to post that they are not having a tire failure with the OEM tires? There is really no motivation. As a customer, I didn't decide I wanted them. They just came on the trailer as standard. So naturally you will find many more failure reports here than happiness with the tires.
Another thing that bothers me a bit is the attack on Heartland that they buy the cheap tires (bothTowmax and Sailon are Chinese as are most tires nowadays) just to save money. Well, that may be the case, but I doubt it. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that price is a critical factor in Heartland tire selection. Every extra dollar of cost increases the price to the customer. I'll bet that the switch to Sailon was not based on quality, but price. However, only Heartland knows why they did it. The change itself is not evidence that either brand is better.
By the way, I am not defending Towmax. Our fiver has about 3,000 miles on it (2,500 from the factory and 500 from us) and the tires are still ok. I am posting this because I wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence is not terribly helpful. Of course if you have the extra money burning a hole in your pocket, buying new tires is just as good a way to spend it as any other. I would be much happier if I could get some statistics on actual failures of the various ST and LT tires. Then I could make an informed decision.
travelin2
Pennsylvania Chapter Leaders-retired
I will ditto Seatlelion. I haven't the urge to post as much as he did but I agree. We just completed a 10k mile trip on top of last years 2k miles. We left knowing daily tire inspection and inflation would be key and that as Seatlelion stated statistically our trip would be issue free. I also visited with a couple in CO on their way home to GA that had towmax tires on their BC. They had no problems to date.
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mobilcastle
Well-known member
Please don't think I am trying to get anyone to change tires. I would say my 5ver between me and the prior owner has about 15k miles or more. I am only reporting my experience with Sailons. I always say each to his own-pick what you like and run them. If Sailons are available when I need tires I guarantee you I will buy them . Good luck with your new rig!!
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Conversely the fact the you haven't had a problem doesn't mean they aren't in fact an inferior tire to GY's or my Bridgestones. They certainly are. Both by design and construction. Educate yourself on the differences, for example 35lbs of weight vs 56lbs, and you won't argue for the Towmax tires continued use. My first one failed 600 miles after PDI, and the other 6 had to be warranted for extreme checking a year and a half later. The Bridgestone's are on twice the mileage, 3yrs later, with the same monitoring.
The reason you see them on so many coaches isn't because they are proven sufficient, but rather they're a cheap option that "gets it done" long enough, and warranty claims are pushed to the tire manufacturer. They wash thier hands of it. Been there done that dance with Heartland and Towmax.
...and I have spoken highly of my Bridgestones and recommended them.
The reason you see them on so many coaches isn't because they are proven sufficient, but rather they're a cheap option that "gets it done" long enough, and warranty claims are pushed to the tire manufacturer. They wash thier hands of it. Been there done that dance with Heartland and Towmax.
...and I have spoken highly of my Bridgestones and recommended them.
SeattleLion
Well-known member
How do you know what the weight difference means for performance. All you really know is that they are heavier than the Towmax. Where is it written that a heavier tire is "better"? I don't mean to attack you, but this is a perfect example of where someone decides a factor makes one complex product better than another. Is there any authority that says heavier tires are inherently better? It would seem to me that heavier tires would have more trouble dissipating heat. The point is that you cite a "reason" with no substantiation and then follow with your anecdote.
Isn't that true of all third party products that Heartland includes in their coaches? I think it is. Who at Heartland told you that the tires are a cheap option? Another assumption.
My point isn't that Towmax are good or bad, just that all I see are stories of individual experience followed by a successful purchase of a different product. This doesn't really prove anything.
I never said that heavier tires performs better. I said there are inherent differences in construction that make them superior and weight shows there are differences that warrant further investigation (education). I didn't intend to hijack this thread by lecturing about the differences. Its well documented on the net. Try Google.
As far as heat dispersion goes I venture a guess they peform better because they don't mushroom out like ST tires do undrr load. They provide less rolling resistance and a smaller contact patch. Admittedly though, I didn't get enough miles out of my Towmax to compare. Perhaps someone else can chime in.
In terms of who told me they are a cheaper option - Heartland. However you don't really need Heartland to tell you that. All you need to do is research the manufacturer's price. The GYs and Bridgestones are twice as much Towmax in price. Again...try Google for pricing.
I'm not sure if you were at the Heartland National Rally but tires have been discussed. Heartland offers other superior options for a premium and for obvious reasons. Some folks want or need better options.
I won't argue with you though. You're certainly I intitled to your opinion. I'm just pointing out you obviously haven't researched enough to understand the differences and the reasons for the topic on all sorts of forums aside from this one.
As far as heat dispersion goes I venture a guess they peform better because they don't mushroom out like ST tires do undrr load. They provide less rolling resistance and a smaller contact patch. Admittedly though, I didn't get enough miles out of my Towmax to compare. Perhaps someone else can chime in.
In terms of who told me they are a cheaper option - Heartland. However you don't really need Heartland to tell you that. All you need to do is research the manufacturer's price. The GYs and Bridgestones are twice as much Towmax in price. Again...try Google for pricing.
I'm not sure if you were at the Heartland National Rally but tires have been discussed. Heartland offers other superior options for a premium and for obvious reasons. Some folks want or need better options.
I won't argue with you though. You're certainly I intitled to your opinion. I'm just pointing out you obviously haven't researched enough to understand the differences and the reasons for the topic on all sorts of forums aside from this one.
SeattleLion
Well-known member
I've looked on Google too. However, I was unable to find an objective comparison between ST tires. I really want to understand this better. You say that this topic appears on many forums. You are right. If I had a tire fail, I would get right on the Net and tell everyone. It's a very painful and personal thing to have equipment failure ruin a trip. I have been reading various forums and I see lots of "facts" about tires. I did take the time to talk to a RV expert, Gary Bunzer the RV doctor. He spoke at a recent RV event. His take is that he hasn't found any useful engineering information on the net either. He suggested that I contact the RV manufacturers association to see what they have. I admit I haven't done that yet.
I'm not being critical of your post. I just want to make sure that we realize that we don't have the data we need to truly understand how to evaluate ST tires. It would seem to me that enough are sold each year that one of the rating organizations would attempt to provide some clarity. I'm sorry if I offended you.
Gary521
Well-known member
I could not help myself. Seattle, you live in a dream world. Anecdotal Evidence-Give me a beak!
I beieve that you said this:
(Another thing that bothers me a bit is the attack on Heartland that they buy the cheap tires (bothTowmax and Sailon are Chinese as are most tires nowadays) just to save money. Well, that may be the case, but I doubt it. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that price is a critical factor in Heartland tire selection. Every extra dollar of cost increases the price to the customer. I'll bet that the switch to Sailon was not based on quality, but price. However, only Heartland knows why they did it. The change itself is not evidence that either brand is better. )
Is that contradiction or what? You are saying that " You cannot attack Heartland for buying cheap tires just to save money. However, the switch to Sailun was based on price. " Huh??
Seattle, your pseudo intellectual mumbo jumbo is just that. If you are too cheap to buy a decent set of tires, don't try to disguise it by hiding behind some yadda yadda anecdotal evidence crap. Thank your lucky stars that you have not had a blowout yet and chill out with a beer with the money that you have not spent.
I beieve that you said this:
(Another thing that bothers me a bit is the attack on Heartland that they buy the cheap tires (bothTowmax and Sailon are Chinese as are most tires nowadays) just to save money. Well, that may be the case, but I doubt it. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that price is a critical factor in Heartland tire selection. Every extra dollar of cost increases the price to the customer. I'll bet that the switch to Sailon was not based on quality, but price. However, only Heartland knows why they did it. The change itself is not evidence that either brand is better. )
Is that contradiction or what? You are saying that " You cannot attack Heartland for buying cheap tires just to save money. However, the switch to Sailun was based on price. " Huh??
Seattle, your pseudo intellectual mumbo jumbo is just that. If you are too cheap to buy a decent set of tires, don't try to disguise it by hiding behind some yadda yadda anecdotal evidence crap. Thank your lucky stars that you have not had a blowout yet and chill out with a beer with the money that you have not spent.
SeattleLion
Well-known member
It's good to see that your thoughtless personal attacks are still coming. Sheesh! It's always good to hear from you. A nice laugh break for me.
caissiel
Senior Member
Heartland in 2009 model year used Freestar Chinese Load Range G tires. And they were one of the deal breaker for our purchase.
Later Freestar was no longer available and Tomax load range E at 3450 lbs fit the bill for the 7000 lbs axles. I feel that they were not doing the job though all manufacturer used them.
The move to Sailun 637s shows that HL is concerned about satisfied customers.
My Freestars have been trouble free for over 35k miles and wearing well. Though they are 6 years old I am confident they will serve an other year.
I base my experience on the previous unit that we owned for 13 years. After 6 years of constantly replacing failed ST tires every long trip south I bought LT tires that still look great after 7 years and over 40k miles.
Had one tire cut by a sharp rock in a road construction site and due to lane reduction needed to drive to an opening to change the tire. The tire stayed together on the rim and I could note the cut done by the sharp object. Furthermore no damage to the trailer compared to the ST tire failures. The LT tires are build not to fall apart like I have seen ST tires do.
BTW the LT tires were aired at 20% higher then max pressure and loaded 25% higher then max capacity. And I would do it a gain if I needed to.
ST tires are OK for most unit but garbage for the high mileage driver. All my friends use STs and they usually rot before 5he show any wear.
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Later Freestar was no longer available and Tomax load range E at 3450 lbs fit the bill for the 7000 lbs axles. I feel that they were not doing the job though all manufacturer used them.
The move to Sailun 637s shows that HL is concerned about satisfied customers.
My Freestars have been trouble free for over 35k miles and wearing well. Though they are 6 years old I am confident they will serve an other year.
I base my experience on the previous unit that we owned for 13 years. After 6 years of constantly replacing failed ST tires every long trip south I bought LT tires that still look great after 7 years and over 40k miles.
Had one tire cut by a sharp rock in a road construction site and due to lane reduction needed to drive to an opening to change the tire. The tire stayed together on the rim and I could note the cut done by the sharp object. Furthermore no damage to the trailer compared to the ST tire failures. The LT tires are build not to fall apart like I have seen ST tires do.
BTW the LT tires were aired at 20% higher then max pressure and loaded 25% higher then max capacity. And I would do it a gain if I needed to.
ST tires are OK for most unit but garbage for the high mileage driver. All my friends use STs and they usually rot before 5he show any wear.
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scottyb
Well-known member
I know probably 100% of the folks that have had a bad experience with Towmax have switched to another tire. Every single one of them probably would consider them to be an inferior tire. I know there is another segment of people that switched before having a bad experience, and there is yet another group that ordered their rigs with upgraded tires. My question is, how are all these people making out with their alternative tires. I'm not hearing any reports of failures with them. Almost 100% of the tire failures on this website are from Towmax. I can only remember a 5 year old G614, and maybe one other GY. You would think by now there would be more reports surfacing, if all things were truly created equal. Speak up if you have had a bad experience with a tire from one of the high quality manufacturers. If one of my Michellins fail, I will surely report it.
