Trailer brake question

[Terryd91]

Hey everyone, I have a 2018 Sundance xlt 283rb and I have a question about the braking performance. Since we got it I have noticed that I have to run the brake controller maxed out on my 2017 f150 to get any type of braking assistance from the trailer. To me this is odd because I have always adjusted the brakes by the manual by setting them to where they just start to lock up with the manual lever and backing off a bit and normally that was around 6-8v. That is impossible with this trailer because they get no where near locking up. The dealer has it and says this is acceptable, it does the same thing on their truck. The other thing I have noticed is that the drivers side drums where at 150 after a few stops, the back passenger was at 180 and the front passenger was at 105. They are looking into why that is.

Is this normal? Compared to all the other trailers I have towed this one has very little brake force and that is what worried me. I think this camper has 4400lb axles, the camper is 9600 gross so minus the tongue weight the axles are near capacity, could the brakes just be over run?

My truck has been tested 3 times, it's putting out 13v and almost 20 amps with the manual lever.

 

[cookie]

I would recommend that you pull each brake drum and inspect them for any grease that may be on the shoes.
Next, you should adjust them and finally use a multimeter to check the DC voltage at the magnets.

Peace
Dave

 

[Terryd91]

I would recommend that you pull each brake drum and inspect them for any grease that may be on the shoes.
Next, you should adjust them and finally use a multimeter to check the DC voltage at the magnets.

Peace
Dave

Thanks for the quick response Dave.

I plan on tearing them apart if the dealer says it's fine again. They did check voltage and resistance at the magnets and they say they adjusted the shoes too but judging by the varying drum Temps I wonder. The grease issue has crossed my mind so I am looking to degrease the drums, check and adjust the shoes and repack the bearings for peace of mind. Our next trip is in October so I have some time, just bit disappointed about having the runaround with the dealer.

 

[hoefler]

First, adjust them. New brakes need to be adjusted several times to get max performance.

 

[danemayer]

You may need to burnish the brakes.

your trailer brakes should be burnished-in by applying the brakes 20-30 times with approximately a 20 m.p.h. decrease in speed, e.g. 40 m.p.h. to 20 m.p.h. Allow ample time for brakes to cool between application. This allows the brake shoes and magnets to slightly "wear-in" to drum surfaces.

 

[Gary521]

More that likely, the brakes were not adjusted from the factory. As someone has already stated, adjust the brakes. Self adjusting brakes must be manually adjusted when first installed ( assuming that is what you have ). I am talking about the brakes themselves not the controller.

 

[Terryd91]

You may need to burnish the brakes.

I have, when I first got it i did a few "brake in" cycles to set the shoes and magnets, the trailer has a bit over 400 miles now with a fair bit of city driving.

More that likely, the brakes were not adjusted from the factory. As someone has already stated, adjust the brakes. Self adjusting brakes must be manually adjusted when first installed ( assuming that is what you have ). I am talking about the brakes themselves not the controller.

That originally was my thought but the dealer claim that is part of their presale check, they have some measurements written down on the checklist because they said they adjust and measure them before hand. I don't buy it. I expect to get it back as is, im going to degrease the drums, check and adjust the shoes and go from there.

 

[Bob&Patty]

If there is grease on the drums you will need to replace the shoes. That sounds like a warranty issue to me.

 

[Terryd91]

If there is grease on the drums you will need to replace the shoes. That sounds like a warranty issue to me.

You would think if that was the issue it would be warranty but they won't even look at them. I'll be on the hook for parts it if it's not just an adjustment issue. Hopefully they will call this week and i can pick it up saturday and start tearing into it.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Call HL service and have them find you different dealer or independent service center that will inspect and repair your brakes.

 

[lwmcguire]

Triple check the ground wire on your truck and the coach.

 

[Cabindoc]

I'm subscribing as I have similar issue. The ground wire. At the box where the plug wires into?

 

[alexb2000]

I have, when I first got it i did a few "brake in" cycles to set the shoes and magnets, the trailer has a bit over 400 miles now with a fair bit of city driving.



That originally was my thought but the dealer claim that is part of their presale check, they have some measurements written down on the checklist because they said they adjust and measure them before hand. I don't buy it. I expect to get it back as is, im going to degrease the drums, check and adjust the shoes and go from there.

I don't know what measurements they have written down, but I have not heard of that as a way to adjust the brakes.

My process is to jack the trailer up and set the controller at mid range (~6 volts). I have a helper apply the brake hand lever as I need while I go around and manually adjust the brakes (star wheel) so the application feels the same on each wheel. I spin the wheel by hand and then have the helper apply the brakes to see how they are reacting, then adjust as needed. I also test by trying to spin the wheel with the brakes applied just to see how firm the lockup is. This is what I have always done to get a consistent brake application and it also seems to be the easiest IME. It usually takes 2-3 trips around to get them just right.

Maybe there are others with better techniques, but I can always get a four wheel lockup and then back-off to threshold braking using the above technique so I haven't tried to do anything else.

BTW- If you can't get all the wheels to operate consistently then I would say to have a wiring or mechanical problem.

 

[Cabindoc]

I've always thought that to adjust brakes, you simply bring brake shoes up close to the drums so you cant rotate, then back it off so there is an ever so slight sound of rubbing. Not engaging brakes at all. That said, on another forum I posed the same question and they all say that with these big trailers there isn't a distinct hold back with max braking, but the brakes are there working.

 

[Terryd91]

I have always set electric drums like hydraulic drums, expand the adjuster until they start to drag then back it off a few teeth. They claim the lippert axles should have a 1/16 on each shoe. Still haven't heard from them so I doubt they have looked at it.

 

[lwmcguire]

I polish the surfaces where the ground wire attaches, frame on the truck and frame near the junction box before I check anything else.
Then start going to each drum and doing the complete inspection as many have outlined, if the ground don't improve braking

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[alexb2000]

I have always set electric drums like hydraulic drums, expand the adjuster until they start to drag then back it off a few teeth. They claim the lippert axles should have a 1/16 on each shoe. Still haven't heard from them so I doubt they have looked at it.

I've always thought that to adjust brakes, you simply bring brake shoes up close to the drums so you cant rotate, then back it off so there is an ever so slight sound of rubbing. Not engaging brakes at all. That said, on another forum I posed the same question and they all say that with these big trailers there isn't a distinct hold back with max braking, but the brakes are there working.

Its up to you guys, but if you are not getting even braking and consistent drum temps try what I posted. You can feel a distinct difference wheel to wheel when the brakes are applied. From that point it is easy to adjust one or more just a click or two tighter to even them out. Remember the brake shoes are not applying from the centerline straight out to the drum. They are expanding out from the top, so the bottom adjustment is key because any difference is amplified.

 

[kf5qby]

I don't know what measurements they have written down, but I have not heard of that as a way to adjust the brakes.

My process is to jack the trailer up and set the controller at mid range (~6 volts). I have a helper apply the brake hand lever as I need while I go around and manually adjust the brakes (star wheel) so the application feels the same on each wheel. I spin the wheel by hand and then have the helper apply the brakes to see how they are reacting, then adjust as needed. I also test by trying to spin the wheel with the brakes applied just to see how firm the lockup is. This is what I have always done to get a consistent brake application and it also seems to be the easiest IME. It usually takes 2-3 trips around to get them just right.

Maybe there are others with better techniques, but I can always get a four wheel lockup and then back-off to threshold braking using the above technique so I haven't tried to do anything else.

This is the same process when you replace drum brakes on older cars. They may have auto-adjusters but they need to be set correctly the first time for them to work correctly.

 

[Terryd91]

Well finally got a call from the dealer after a bit over a month, nothing is wrong. Whatever, I guess i'll deal with it myself. A few weeks ago i met with the owner and he went for a test ride with my truck hooked up to the trailer, maxed out the brakes and he said "oh that's normal." We hooked up one of there trucks with a p2 controller and tried it again, felt different because the p2 comes on more aggressive but still the same brake force. They say that you should NOT be able to lock up the brakes, and it's normal to run with the brake controler maxed out, completely opposite of what the lipper manual and every other axle i have used says. So according to them the max braking effort you should get is equivalent to a soft stop in the truck.

They kept it after that because they did acknowledge that there was a good variance in drum temps after some normal driving and a few stops with the trailer brakes maxed out. Drivers side where both close to 200, back passenger was 170 and the front passenger was 120. They claim Lipper said this is normal but to adjust the passenger side brakes. obviously they were not adjusted correctly, so I will see if that makes a difference on saturday. I'm anticipating no change, but i'll let everyone know this weekend. I plan to have it home and wheels up by noon to re-adjust the drums and check the ground to start with.

 

[alexb2000]

Well finally got a call from the dealer after a bit over a month, nothing is wrong. Whatever, I guess i'll deal with it myself. A few weeks ago i met with the owner and he went for a test ride with my truck hooked up to the trailer, maxed out the brakes and he said "oh that's normal." We hooked up one of there trucks with a p2 controller and tried it again, felt different because the p2 comes on more aggressive but still the same brake force. They say that you should NOT be able to lock up the brakes, and it's normal to run with the brake controler maxed out, completely opposite of what the lipper manual and every other axle i have used says. So according to them the max braking effort you should get is equivalent to a soft stop in the truck.

They kept it after that because they did acknowledge that there was a good variance in drum temps after some normal driving and a few stops with the trailer brakes maxed out. Drivers side where both close to 200, back passenger was 170 and the front passenger was 120. They claim Lipper said this is normal but to adjust the passenger side brakes. obviously they were not adjusted correctly, so I will see if that makes a difference on saturday. I'm anticipating no change, but i'll let everyone know this weekend. I plan to have it home and wheels up by noon to re-adjust the drums and check the ground to start with.

All I can say is that this sounds like a bunch of B.S. to me.

If you cannot lock up your brakes with the controller all the way up, you either have brakes that are too small for the weight of the trailer, or you have some form of brake or controller problem, end of discussion in my mind. That is different from having the brakes lock up in normal operation, they shouldn't, but rather be right on the edge of lockup where maximum braking occurs (ie. threshold braking) at approx. half controller gain. The temps might vary a little from axle to axle, but should otherwise be pretty consistent.

Anyway, that's my standard and I've certainly worked on some trailers to get there, but it is possible.

Let us know if we can help.