Trailer brake question

[Terryd91]

All I can say is that this sounds like a bunch of B.S. to me.

If you cannot lock up your brakes with the controller all the way up, you either have brakes that are too small for the weight of the trailer, or you have some form of brake or controller problem, end of discussion in my mind. That is different from having the brakes lock up in normal operation, they shouldn't, but rather be right on the edge of lockup where maximum braking occurs (ie. threshold braking) at approx. half controller gain. The temps might vary a little from axle to axle, but should otherwise be pretty consistent.

Anyway, that's my standard and I'ver certainly worked on some trailers to get there, but it is possible.

Let us know if we can help.

That was one of my main complaints to begin with, i could not adjust the brakes per common knowledge or manual because they will get no where near lockup at 13v. They help to slow the trailer a littel, but a majority of the braking is on the truck and i don't want to cook the brakes on a brand new truck.

From what i have found the axles are close to max, the trailer is 9600 gross, dry 6900 lb and has two 4400 lb axles. so 8800+ the 850 thats unloaded as tongue weight gets a total of 9650, reserve capacity of just 50lb. I have heard that the lippert 4400 are just beefed up 3500's, so maybe the brakes are undersized. If that's the case then i'm disappointed in heartland and my only option then i guess would be to put a set of 5k's under it or put together a disk setup.

 

[alexb2000]

That was one of my main complaints to begin with, i could not adjust the brakes per common knowledge or manual because they will get no where near lockup at 13v. They help to slow the trailer a littel, but a majority of the braking is on the truck and i don't want to cook the brakes on a brand new truck.

From what i have found the axles are close to max, the trailer is 9600 gross, dry 6900 lb and has two 4400 lb axles. so 8800+ the 850 thats unloaded as tongue weight gets a total of 9650, reserve capacity of just 50lb. I have heard that the lippert 4400 are just beefed up 3500's, so maybe the brakes are undersized. If that's the case then i'm disappointed in heartland and my only option then i guess would be to put a set of 5k's under it or put together a disk setup.

Terry-

I agree with everything you're saying, solid logic. I would definitely check out the sizes of those brakes. Also look at the magnets on the brakes, Dexter and others make different magnets for different axle weight applications, often identified by magnet wire color. So an upsize in brakes could be magnets, shoes and drums, or both. When faced with a similar situation of being right on the edge I have gone to the stronger magnets to get more force on the drums and it worked well enough to get me lockup. Of course my trailer brakes wore out quicker than they should have because the shoes and drums were still undersize, but it was a lot cheaper than a complete upgrade, and I wasn't using the trailer everyday so it didn't matter to me.

Sounds like the dealer may know this and also knows the manufacturer won't take responsibility for undersizing the axles and brakes, so.... They kick it back to you.

 

[Terryd91]

Terry-

I agree with everything you're saying, solid logic. I would definitely check out the sizes of those brakes. Also look at the magnets on the brakes, Dexter and others make different magnets for different axle weight applications, often identified by magnet wire color. So an upsize in brakes could be magnets, shoes and drums, or both. When faced with a similar situation of being right on the edge I have gone to the stronger magnets to get more force on the drums and it worked well enough to get me lockup. Of course my trailer brakes wore out quicker than they should have because the shoes and drums were still undersize, but it was a lot cheaper than a complete upgrade, and I wasn't using the trailer everyday so it didn't matter to me.

Sounds like the dealer may know this and also knows the manufacturer won't take responsibility for undersizing the axles and brakes, so.... They kick it back to you.

Thats kinda what im afraid of. I hope to find them out of adjustment or maybe some grease some how got on the shoes but you never know, it is a XLT so maybe they tried to save a few lb's on the axles. Ideally I would like to find someone with the same trailer to get their input to see if it's a common thing across this model but i don't think sold many of the 283rb's.

We like the trailer, aside from a few build quality issues that you will find with every new trailer from every manufacture its been good. We really like having two bedrooms to give our daughter some peace and quiet for naps or when we come in late but this thing needs to be able to stop!!

I'll keep that magnet idea around, the company i work for sells some trailer parts so i'll see what we have.

 

[danemayer]

From what i have found the axles are close to max, the trailer is 9600 gross, dry 6900 lb and has two 4400 lb axles. so 8800+ the 850 thats unloaded as tongue weight gets a total of 9650, reserve capacity of just 50lb.

Is that 850 tongue weight measured or estimated? Tongue weight is usually at least 10% and sometimes 15% of GVWR. That would be 960 - 1440 if your trailer is fully loaded to the GVWR.

 

[Terryd91]

Is that 850 tongue weight measured or estimated? Tongue weight is usually at least 10% and sometimes 15% of GVWR. That would be 960 - 1440 if your trailer is fully loaded to the GVWR.

That's from Heartland, its 820 dry not 850. Not sure what the loaded weight is, it's been at the dealer more then it's been in my driveway lol. I tow empty and we don't bring much with us so i would guess that the trailer is under 8k which is under the axle rating before you take off the TW.


GVWR

9,620 lbs​

Dry Weight

6,920 lbs​

Hitch Weight

820 lbs


​

 

[CoveredWagon]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ammco-8650-Safe-Set-Setting-Gauge-for-Adjusting-Drum-Brakes-/162346259860

This is what you need to make real simple. I've used them for years (years ago) and they make the job really simple. But be sure your drums are round.

 

[Terryd91]

Picked it up Saturday, no change. I willing to bet money they didn't look at it and it just sat there for a month and a half as the paperwork says they contacted lipper and got tech help and what not, problem is when I got under there it has Dexter axles. So either they didn't care to look, or called Lippert instead, or they never did anything. Been sick all week/weekend so i didn't mess with it much, but i did get two tires in the air, sounds like the shoes are dragging a hair, wheel still spins free though. Im hoping i feel better before Friday so I can get the wheels off of it before we leave to camp.

I made a video to show heartland/dexter if they care to watch it, trucks set to 10, which outputs about 13v and the manual lever is pulled all the way.

 

[CoveredWagon]

One other thing Terry, be sure the drums are round and centered

 

[alexb2000]

Terry-


Good test. When you feel better try adjusting them up with someone activating the brakes from the truck to verify. I have lost count of the times I found brakes that I could still spin by hand with full application. From your description they sound loose.

 

[Terryd91]

I was going to pull the breakaway to test them since my wife was gone but the dealer reconnected the battery at some point and left the trailer unplugged the whole time so the battery was dead as a door nail. I have it on a smart charger to try and "recondition" but it might be shot. Had to use their jump box to get it on the truck.

If im not feeling much better by mid week one of the local shops said he would pull all 4 drums and check for grease, adjust them and look for anything wrong for an hour of labor.

Going to call Hartland and Dexter on my lunch to see if they can provide any insight. They are dexter 4400lb axles, I think Dexter does the same as Lippert and uses 3500lb spindles and brakes on a heavier axle tube, going to look into that too.

 

[Terryd91]

Well an update on an old thread. The brakes are still terrible after another 500 miles finishing up the camping season, they did get a slight bit better but not much. I re-check and adjusted everything after the last trip and still no good. Short of replacing assemblies and trying again I give up on the D44's.

Good new is a i have a set of dexter d60's coming. Not thrilled to be dumping $800 in to a brand new trailer to make it safe but the 12" drums should help a good bit. Still on the fence if i want to just switch them to disk before i install so i know they will preform and last or at least give the new axles/brakes a chance. Either way i should cut my stopping distance way down.

 

[Gerri]

Feels bad man!
I had a Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller installed and am having problems with it. It will not pair when the trailer-side unit is plugged into the MX.

It does pair when the unit is plugged into a car battery, so the problem seems to be that the Tesla is not providing a high enough voltage. Or perhaps the car isn't keeping the 12v line continuously on. I'll start a new topic to see if anyone has ideas but right now I can't recommend that unit.