Tripped breaker

[8amps]

Question - we are in a 30 amp hookup in chilly, but not freezing weather. We have a small heater we got at costco - says 12.5 amps on the box. It has been quite comfortable and a bit warmer than our fireplace as temperatures drop. (Haven't gotten to freezing temps, know that heater won't keep rig from freezing, need furnace for that). We had both the fireplace and heater on last night and the tv and dvd player. We were quite toasty and comfy and everything was swell for 30 minutes or an hour and then the breaker tripped. We have a surge protector (but just a plug in, not the internal one). Everything turned back on ok. We shut off the fireplace and turned on the furnace. I'm just wondering what is causing it to trip all of the sudden (as opposed to when we turned it on)? Is that the power surging in the park?

 

[Terry H]

Is the water heater being operated on electric? If so, switch over to operating the water heater on propane. I always operate the water heater and RV refrigerator on propane when using a 30 amp connection. The fireplace and the space heater use about 25 to 30 amps when using both at the same time, then the electric element in the water heater comes on and trips a 30 amp breaker.

 

[JohnD]

Our Prowler is 30 amp and we've popped the breaker a couple of times while running the electric space heater.

We can run the electric heater and the electric hot water heater at the same time, but turn on the coffee maker and POOF!

Two outta' three ain't bad!

 

[mlpeloquin]

We have a progressive surge protector and it does display the current draw. So far hear is a list of the current draw that may help and you may or may not have some of the items. All currents are max unless two currents are given and I have not taken the time to get the current draw for the water heater, fireplace, or washing machine yet. Need to know inorder to play "GREEN ACERS" while on 30A. I had to do this for my wife! She still blows breakers since she uses several high current draw items on the same breaker circuit. My next chore is to label the sockets with the breaker number. We do switch the refrigerator and water heater on propane when we are going to use a lot of other electric appliances.

Floor Fan - 1A
Living Room TV, Sound System, and Satellite Receiver - 3A
Portable Ice Maker - 5A
Bedroom TV and Satellite Receiver 1A
Toaster Oven - 7A
Electric Space Heater - 13A
Coffee Pot - 10A
Induction Plate - 15A
Hair Dryer - 7 & 13A
Curling Iron - 3A
Refrigerator - 13A
Microwave Oven - 16A
Close Dryer - 10A
Close Washer - TBD
Crock Pot - 2A
AC Unit 13.5A ea
Water Heater - TBD
Fireplace - TBD

 

[8amps]

We have a progressive surge protector and it does display the current draw. So far hear is a list of the current draw that may help and you may or may not have some of the items. All currents are max unless two currents are given and I have not taken the time to get the current draw for the water heater, fireplace, or washing machine yet. Need to know inorder to play "GREEN ACERS" while on 30A. I had to do this for my wife! She still blows breakers since she uses several high current draw items on the same breaker circuit. My next chore is to label the sockets with the breaker number. We do switch the refrigerator and water heater on propane when we are going to use a lot of other electric appliances.

Floor Fan - 1A
Living Room TV, Sound System, and Satellite Receiver - 3A
Portable Ice Maker - 5A
Bedroom TV and Satellite Receiver 1A
Toaster Oven - 7A
Electric Space Heater - 13A
Coffee Pot - 10A
Induction Plate - 15A
Hair Dryer - 7 & 13A
Curling Iron - 3A
Refrigerator - 13A
Microwave Oven - 16A
Close Dryer - 10A
Close Washer - TBD
Crock Pot - 2A
AC Unit 13.5A ea
Water Heater - TBD
Fireplace - TBD

I clipped this chart from somewhere... Trailer life, maybe? Anyhoo, thought it could be the water heater. Aside from the inconvenience of going outside in the cold to reset, does it hurt anything?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[jbeletti]

I clipped this chart from somewhere... Trailer life, maybe? Anyhoo, thought it could be the water heater. Aside from the inconvenience of going outside in the cold to reset, does it hurt anything?

I'd venture a guess that the branch circuit wire is getting pretty warm and I would take steps to avoid tripping the breaker. Perhaps you can power the portable electric heater via a heavy duty extension cord plugged into a nearby unused pedestal (other than your own).

At minimum, try getting it on the other leg of AC power in your coach as you may have more current available on it.

 

[8amps]

I'd venture a guess that the branch circuit wire is getting pretty warm and I would take steps to avoid tripping the breaker. Perhaps you can power the portable electric heater via a heavy duty extension cord plugged into a nearby unused pedestal (other than your own).

At minimum, try getting it on the other leg of AC power in your coach as you may have more current available on it.

Hi Jim, can you elaborate on what/how you mean about getting it on the other leg of AC power in the coach? (Sorry, real novice at power) Is that as simple as a different outlet in another area? At the time of the tripped breaker, we were using living room TV, Fireplace and heat plugged into the back - so all in a similar area.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[jbeletti]

Hi Jim, can you elaborate on what/how you mean about getting it on the other leg of AC power in the coach? (Sorry, real novice at power) Is that as simple as a different outlet in another area? At the time of the tripped breaker, we were using living room TV, Fireplace and heat plugged into the back - so all in a similar area.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Sure thing... But first, I've reminded myself that as you're on a 30 amp power connection, my suggestion to move the heater to the other leg of power is invalid. Sorry about that

So, 50 amp park power is comprised of two legs of 110 volt / 50 amp power. That's why you have 4 prongs on your 50 amp plug (L1, L2, Neutral and Ground).

Each of the 2 legs (L1 and L2) feed into your circuit breaker panel. The load (your branch circuits connected to the circuit breakers) is distributed to L1 or L2. Generally, breakers 1, 3, 5, 7 ... are on one leg and breakers 2, 4, 6, 8 ... are on the other leg.

RV makers do their best to distribute the AC power loads in the RV across L1 and L2 as evenly as practical.

So while my earlier suggestion is invalid on 30 amp power*, you can still overload 1 leg of AC power when connected to 50 amp power and you can move some plugged in loads to another leg of power if you know how it's distributed in your RV.

* 30 amp park power, when connected to a 50 amp RV power cord via a 30-50 amp (dog bone) adapter, combines both L1 and L2 from the RV onto the single leg of power you are getting from the park on a 30 amp circuit.

This is as deep as my knowledge is on this stuff - others here are smarter than me on this stuff and will weigh in.

Be safe my friends!

 

[danemayer]

You have a hidden load that can vary. The Power Converter typically only draws a little power - maybe 1-3 amps depending on what lights and circuit boards it's powering. But if it decides it's time to put a higher charge on the batteries, it can spike to around 15 amps, and perhaps higher (it's on a 20 amp circuit).

So let's suppose your amperage draw is 12.5 (heater), 13.0 (fireplace), 2 (TV and DVD), 2 (Power Converter), you're at 29.5 amps. If the Power Converter changes state, you'll trip the breaker.

 

[wdk450]

We have a progressive surge protector and it does display the current draw. So far hear is a list of the current draw that may help and you may or may not have some of the items. All currents are max unless two currents are given and I have not taken the time to get the current draw for the water heater, fireplace, or washing machine yet. Need to know inorder to play "GREEN ACERS" while on 30A. I had to do this for my wife! She still blows breakers since she uses several high current draw items on the same breaker circuit. My next chore is to label the sockets with the breaker number. We do switch the refrigerator and water heater on propane when we are going to use a lot of other electric appliances.

Floor Fan - 1A
Living Room TV, Sound System, and Satellite Receiver - 3A
Portable Ice Maker - 5A
Bedroom TV and Satellite Receiver 1A
Toaster Oven - 7A
Electric Space Heater - 13A
Coffee Pot - 10A
Induction Plate - 15A
Hair Dryer - 7 & 13A
Curling Iron - 3A
Refrigerator - 13A
Microwave Oven - 16A
Close Dryer - 10A
Close Washer - TBD
Crock Pot - 2A
AC Unit 13.5A ea
Water Heater - TBD
Fireplace - TBD

I also have the Progressive EMS with the readout inside the trailer. I am surprised with your propane/electric refrigerator amps reading. My total for all incidental loads (charger, refrig, Dish sat. box, surround sound amp ON; digital device chargers, printer and other electronics SLEEP MODE) is right at 6 amps. I DO turn the refrig to propane only if worried about RV current draw on 30 amps supply.

BTW, I have been in the mountains East of San Diego at 3500 ft altitude the past week, having overnight temps around freezing, and have been comfy (60+ degrees) overnight using my fireplace heater, electric space heater, and electric blanket. I have yet to use my furnace this week. I am on a 30 amp service and have not blown any breakers. I DO turn off the heat temporarily when making breakfast with the microwave/toaster/coffee maker. I have even run the water heater in the afternoons, with the heaters off.

 

[Gaffer]

The fireplace, water heater and space heater together are enough to trip the breaker.

 

[JohnD]

The fireplace, water heater and space heater together are enough to trip the breaker.

Throw in a hair dryer and coffee maker and the whole park will blow!

 

[mlpeloquin]

I also have the Progressive EMS with the readout inside the trailer. I am surprised with your propane/electric refrigerator amps reading. My total for all incidental loads (charger, refrig, Dish sat. box, surround sound amp ON; digital device chargers, printer and other electronics SLEEP MODE) is right at 6 amps. I DO turn the refrig to propane only if worried about RV current draw on 30 amps supply.

BTW, I have been in the mountains East of San Diego at 3500 ft altitude the past week, having overnight temps around freezing, and have been comfy (60+ degrees) overnight using my fireplace heater, electric space heater, and electric blanket. I have yet to use my furnace this week. I am on a 30 amp service and have not blown any breakers. I DO turn off the heat temporarily when making breakfast with the microwave/toaster/coffee maker. I have even run the water heater in the afternoons, with the heaters off.

Could not find this post to reply. Have the fifth wheel back at home for a trip. Without my wife not being in the rig using things, the refrigerator use 4 amps AC.

 

[8amps]

BTW, I have been in the mountains East of San Diego ato 3500 ft altitude the past week, having overnight temps around freezing, and have been comfy (60+ degrees) overnight using my fireplace heater, electric space heater, and electric blanket. I have yet to use my furnace this week. I am on a 30 amp service and have not blown any breakers. I DO turn off the heat temporarily when making breakfast with the microwave/toaster/coffee maker. I have even run the water heater in the afternoons, with the heaters off.

To be sure I'm understanding you, you leave the fireplace on all night? And the space heater? We were a little worried about leaving them on when we're not nearby (awake) to monitor them. So before bed, we turn on the furnace. We like it a little cooler so we set the furnace at 59, of course outside temps dictate how much that comes on.
Slightly unrelated, we have a wireless thermostat controller (which says Carrier, though I've never opened the furnace panel to see what the model of furnace is.) Anyhow, it only goes up and down 2 degrees at a time. 61, 59, 57, etc. Is that normal?

 

[wdk450]

To be sure I'm understanding you, you leave the fireplace on all night? And the space heater? We were a little worried about leaving them on when we're not nearby (awake) to monitor them. So before bed, we turn on the furnace. We like it a little cooler so we set the furnace at 59, of course outside temps dictate how much that comes on. Slightly unrelated, we have a wireless thermostat controller (which says Carrier, though I've never opened the furnace panel to see what the model of furnace is.) Anyhow, it only goes up and down 2 degrees at a time. 61, 59, 57, etc. Is that normal?

8amps: Yes, I leave my fireplace and electric space heater on all night in cold weather. This in my 9 year old Bighorn.

I have never felt any surface getting excessively hot when the heaters are on.

I have had the fireplace disassembled many times for lamp and effects motor replacements, and have seen the heater assembly is a seperate metal-enclosed box within the fireplce metal case. Like double insulated for electrical stuff.

The space heater is kept at least 2 feet from any possible combustable materials, and sits on a metal pad on the carpet. The carpet doesn't get hot.

The biggest electrical fire hazard in RV's (in my opinion as a retired hospital electronics technician of over 40 years electronic experience) is insulation displacement connector electrical outlets used in assembly line construction. These outlets have a very small electrical contact area where the wire meets the V of the "ScotchLok" type electrical connector.Although this type of outlet is UL certified, it doesn't meet the contact area need of high current devices (like heating devices) in my opinion. I have replaced all electrical outlets inside the trailer with residential screw-type connection outlets (and boxes).

I consider myself very fire safety aware. Compare my fire safety items to what you have done in your Coach.

1. IDC outlets replaced with standard screw-type outlets.

2. Self deploying $270 Halon fire extinguisher mounted in refrigerator external compartment.

3. Heartland supplied 1 lb fire extinguisher replaced with 10 lb extinguisher.

4. Bedroom window area supplied with chain ladder, window holder prop, and climbing edge pillow for quick alternate bedroom area escape.

5. Propane gas flex hose under kitchen slide encased in rugged thickwall reenforced PVC tubing to prevent possible rupture from road debris.

I have been fulltiming about 3 years and am entirely comfortable with this setup.

 

[8amps]

I have been fulltiming about 3 years and am entirely comfortable with this setup.

HI Bill,
Thanks for that explanation. Hope you didn't take that as a criticism, it definitely was not but rather a sincere question from ignorance. I was joking on another Thread about being like Michael Keaton's character in Mr. Mom where he's talking about electricity and says 220, 221 whatever it takes. That's me.

A few things we've learned the hard way and later found out that it was common knowledge to others but not to us since we had never camped or RVed prior to becoming full-timers about 2 years ago. So we tend to err on the side of caution. I ask a lot of stupid questions around here and have learned a tremendous amount but still have a long way to go.

For instance, we are in Morgan Hill, CA at the Thousand Trails in a 30 amp site. We have twice tripped the breaker. I believe i know, from this thread, how to avoid that. However, times when we're not overloaded electricity wise, the lights will dim. I thought that might indicate a problem with the park's power but now after reading this, maybe the fridge and a heater and the water heater or inverter (converter? ) clicks on. Can it be too much load yet not enough to trip breaker?

 

[wdk450]

HI Bill,Thanks for that explanation. Hope you didn't take that as a criticism, it definitely was not but rather a sincere question from ignorance. I was joking on another Thread about being like Michael Keaton's character in Mr. Mom where he's talking about electricity and says 220, 221 whatever it takes. That's me. A few things we've learned the hard way and later found out that it was common knowledge to others but not to us since we had never camped or RVed prior to becoming full-timers about 2 years ago. So we tend to err on the side of caution. I ask a lot of stupid questions around here and have learned a tremendous amount but still have a long way to go. For instance, we are in Morgan Hill, CA at the Thousand Trails in a 30 amp site. We have twice tripped the breaker. I believe i know, from this thread, how to avoid that. However, times when we're not overloaded electricity wise, the lights will dim. I thought that might indicate a problem with the park's power but now after reading this, maybe the fridge and a heater and the water heater or inverter (converter? ) clicks on. Can it be too much load yet not enough to trip breaker?

Concerning not tripping the park supply circuit breaker, but experiencing dimming lights with varying electrical loads: Circuit breakers are not tested during their service life for tripping at the correct current draws - even in hospitals. They are assumedly tested once once after manufacture for correct operation, and that is it. Fortunately, in my experience, 110 volt AC circuit breakers start tripping prematurely when they are starting to fail, instead of failing to trip under an overcurrent condition. Dimming of AC powered lights when there is a load surge is symptomatic of poor electrical connections in the main electrical feed wiring. A point of resistance in the electrical feed wiring will cause a noticeable voltage drop when higher current loads are drawn. The most prevalant cause of a poor connection in an RV's shore power feed wiring is the park shore power outlet, and your 30 amp plug into that outlet. It seems that 95% of RVers can't grasp the concept of TURNING OFF THE SHORE POWER CIRCUIT BREAKER BEFORE PLUGGING YOUR RV INTO THAT POWER, AND AGAIN TURNING OFF THE BREAKER BEFORE DISCONNECTING YOUR RV FROM THE SHORE POWER OUTLET. This plugging/unplugging your RV to the shore power outlet with the outlet live causes an arcing spark (with any loads turned on in your RV - like that battery charger, refrig, etc.) which deteriorates the metal components of the outlet/plug connection. Drawing current through this arc corroded connection during your stay causes electrical heating in the connection, which furthers a cycle of corrosion, heating, heat induced corrosion. Check your 30 amp plug prongs and see if they are arced and darkened. Look at the 30 amp outlet and see if you can see signs of melted plastic. Unfortunately, it is difficult to see the outlet metal prong sleeves.I follow a proceedure of having my inside AC power mains brakers off BEFORE connecting/disconnecting the shore power with the shore power breaker OFF. This limits the electrical arcing in my incoming shore power components to just my mains brakers, whe I carry a spare part for. I spray the shore power outlet and plug with Cramolyn DeOxIt contact restorer spray, and plug and unplug the connection about 10 times to wipe the electrical contact mating surfaces before turning the shore powe ON. If I use andy adapters in the 50 amp cord, I spray those connections, too, along with the 50 amp cable entry point. I even carry a spare 30 amp outlet and plug with me.Other components in your shore power feed may have contact resistance, but the shore power plug/outlet problem is epidemic and is like a virus. They guy last night causing an arc in the outlet can affect you today, and cause heating and deteriration in your plug, which will cause you to pass on this "virus" the next place you plug in.50 amp plug/outlets are bigger, not universal like the 30 amp outlets, and tend to be used by people with bigger, more expensive rigs, who tend to keep aware of maintenece issues.At Thousand Trails Pio Pico, near Chula Vista, Ca.

 

[Mattman]

The delay is probably the high quality GE breakers used in campers. My guess is your all ready pulling 30ish amps and it finally heats up enough to pop. Put an Amp probe on one and turn the Amps up. Will almost guarantee it will make it past the rating for a while. In the winter I amped a heater on a 20 amp 2 pole running at 22amps on each leg. It would go about 3-4 hours before it tripped. Breakers are meant to run continuously loads at 80%. which is 3 hours or more. If your running 29 amps for 4 hours it might finally trip. Plus IMO could be damaging other components. I would check your amparage with everything running. The electrical in a camper is not built for long term high amparage. There temporary living. IMO

 

[mlpeloquin]

Concerning not tripping the park supply circuit breaker, but experiencing dimming lights with varying electrical loads: Circuit breakers are not tested during their service life for tripping at the correct current draws - even in hospitals. They are assumedly tested once once after manufacture for correct operation, and that is it. Fortunately, in my experience, 110 volt AC circuit breakers start tripping prematurely when they are starting to fail, instead of failing to trip under an overcurrent condition. Dimming of AC powered lights when there is a load surge is symptomatic of poor electrical connections in the main electrical feed wiring. A point of resistance in the electrical feed wiring will cause a noticeable voltage drop when higher current loads are drawn. The most prevalant cause of a poor connection in an RV's shore power feed wiring is the park shore power outlet, and your 30 amp plug into that outlet. It seems that 95% of RVers can't grasp the concept of TURNING OFF THE SHORE POWER CIRCUIT BREAKER BEFORE PLUGGING YOUR RV INTO THAT POWER, AND AGAIN TURNING OFF THE BREAKER BEFORE DISCONNECTING YOUR RV FROM THE SHORE POWER OUTLET. This plugging/unplugging your RV to the shore power outlet with the outlet live causes an arcing spark (with any loads turned on in your RV - like that battery charger, refrig, etc.) which deteriorates the metal components of the outlet/plug connection. Drawing current through this arc corroded connection during your stay causes electrical heating in the connection, which furthers a cycle of corrosion, heating, heat induced corrosion. Check your 30 amp plug prongs and see if they are arced and darkened. Look at the 30 amp outlet and see if you can see signs of melted plastic. Unfortunately, it is difficult to see the outlet metal prong sleeves.I follow a proceedure of having my inside AC power mains brakers off BEFORE connecting/disconnecting the shore power with the shore power breaker OFF. This limits the electrical arcing in my incoming shore power components to just my mains brakers, whe I carry a spare part for. I spray the shore power outlet and plug with Cramolyn DeOxIt contact restorer spray, and plug and unplug the connection about 10 times to wipe the electrical contact mating surfaces before turning the shore powe ON. If I use andy adapters in the 50 amp cord, I spray those connections, too, along with the 50 amp cable entry point. I even carry a spare 30 amp outlet and plug with me.Other components in your shore power feed may have contact resistance, but the shore power plug/outlet problem is epidemic and is like a virus. They guy last night causing an arc in the outlet can affect you today, and cause heating and deteriration in your plug, which will cause you to pass on this "virus" the next place you plug in.50 amp plug/outlets are bigger, not universal like the 30 amp outlets, and tend to be used by people with bigger, more expensive rigs, who tend to keep aware of maintenece issues.At Thousand Trails Pio Pico, near Chula Vista, Ca.

Bill, on your recommendation over a year ago I purchased Cramolyn DeOxIt contact restorer spray. What great stuff. You can almost watch it remove the oxide on the contacts in real time and makes matting and removal of the connectors easy. It cleans and lubircates the contacts. The film it leaves prevents oxidation as well.