Unit blows GFCI breaker

[Deepsky3539]

Thanks for the invitation FennerJ. As soon as I get the rig back from the dealer; in a few weeks, I was going to start out with a GFCI tester in the unit. My old 25' trailer never blew my GFCI's and I am running drill's and saw's on them right now, so it just concerned me. Hopefully I will find something. I will post to the group what I do or do not find.

 

[Loco]

I can tell you right now that the GFCI will keep triping if it is suppling most trailers. The grounds and neutrals are tied together in most units. Plus the ground is floating in most trailers anyway. When I say floating I mean unless your main cable is plug into a very good plug with a good ground and all of your wiring in your trailer is not connected in anyway to the frame of the trailer your ground is floating.GFCI do not like this at all.GFCI are not needed on electrical motors,AC units or anything with a ground wire in it's power feed (cord). GFCI are for things like hair dryers,radios, non grounded drills,saw,etc. So when you plug a trailer into the plug and the ground is tied to neutral in anyway the GFCI will trip. So if you want to stop this the best thing to do is replace the GFCI in the house with a standard plug or put plug just for your trailer. Thats what I did, was run a 30AMP line in conduit outside next to where we put the trailer when we have it at the house.Our rig has a 50 amp plug so thats what is in box outside. But I know I will never pull 50 AMPs at the house so the breaker in the house is a 30 amp. feeding the line going out side. I ran number 10-3 with ground through the conduit out to the plug.I did not spend more than 150 bucks to run it all.

 

[htneighbors]

Deepsky,

Loco is correct - the GFCI will continue to trip - when the load side (RV) has the neutral and ground connected. I believe it was Jim who mentioned the polarity. Polarity definitely needs to be correct - HOT to HOT, NEUTRAL to NEUTRAL. The NEUTRAL should be the WIDEST blade/slot on your plug/receptacle. The HOT will be the NARROWEST.

If it is your desire to operate your RV from a 120VAC 20A GFCI breaker, I would suggest trying what is called a GFCI EQUIPMENT PROTECTION breaker. They have a much higher mA (milli-Amp) rating when detecting a ground-fault than a regular GFCI breaker, and therefore they don't trip as quick - but this may not solve your problem, either. They are made for EQUIPMENT PROTECTION. Without being there a troubleshooting it myself, I can't say exactly.

If you want, tell me the brand of your breaker box or other breakers, I can get you a part number for it - assuming there is one available. (May even be able to send you one.) They are not made for all brands of electrical equipment. You won't find it at a Home Depot, Lowe's or ACE Hardware. Most electrical supply stores don't carry them in stock nor even know what they are, they've never heard of them. They have only been manufactured for a few years and we use them in industrial applications all the time. (25 years in the electrical industry, I've seen a lot of changes.)

Just a thought.

 

[Deepsky3539]

I did promise to report back what I found with the tester but to be honest, the sub 20 degree temperatures have put me off. I would much rather curl up on the couch right now and be lazy.

Incidentally, the ice underneath of the pin of my rig has prevented me from hooking up and moving the unit in to storage ... For 4 months now!!! This winter has been a real bear. If anyone is studying glaciology, then come on over. I actually have ice shelf's moving down the street slowly each day. I figure when it finally warms up, I am going to have an inland sea in the street.

I do have a small piece of data though. the dealer had no issues plugging the unit in to their power while doing servicing several months back. It's not GFCI but it makes me at least comfortable enough to know I can plug in to normal power while I try to determine if I really do have an issue.

 

[htneighbors]

Grounds and Neutral wiring on RVs

The grounds and neutrals are tied together in most units.

I wanted to weigh back in on this; I've been concerned since I read it. I don't have my Cyclone yet, but you can bet that I will be checking this on my PDI. Being a licensed electrician for years, I had it on my list to check before I even read this thread.

The neutral wires and the ground wires should NEVER be connected in an RV. Period. When the circuit from an RV park comes to the RV this is a branch circuit from the RV electrical system. An RV is plug and cord connected to the parks system. Any wiring in the RV should ALWAYS have the neutral and ground wires insulated from each other. Something can happen to cause a lost neutral, then all the ground wires become current carrying conductors - no good. A ground wire is a ground wire, not a neutral.

2005 National Electric Code, Article 551 - RVs and RV Parks

551.54(C) states: "Insulated Neutral. The grounded circuit conductor (neutral) shall be insulated from the equipment grounding conductors and from equipment enclosures and other grounded parts. The grounded (neutral) circuit terminals in the distribution panelboard and in ranges, clothes dryers, counter-mounted cooking units, and wall-mounted ovens shall be insulated from the equipment enclosure. Bonding screws, straps, or buses in the distribution panelboard or in appliances shall be removed and discarded...."

 

[jbeletti]

Sounds good HT. Do let us know what you find and we'll all be the wiser. Always good to have professional tradespersons on the forum from various disciplines. It gives us all some great ideas.

Jim

 

[htneighbors]

Awesome Customer Service from Heartland!

I wanted to inform all you forum users what I found out concerning the wiring in the Heartlands.

Due to the length of my questions, Steve Kennel (Chaser1 on the forum) at Heartland emailed me his phone number and requested I call him. I just got off the phone from talking with him.

Heartland RVs are wired according to the National Electric Code pertaining to RVs. The neutral wires and the ground wires are isolated from each other. (Assuming the CG or Park is wired correctly, the only place they are allowed to be bonded together is at the MAIN service disconnect which feeds the system.)

Also, the Cyclones are heavier because they are built more heavy-duty; hauling motorcycles and other 'toys' tend to add more weight to the RV than other coaches, so they build them stronger to begin with!

Lastly, on newer coaches, Heartland has worked on the 'fresh water vent/fill/siphon' issue and there are much less problems now.

Of course, since we are all human, it is always a possibility something slips through un-noticed.

Even though I haven't picked up my Cyclone from the dealer, I am definitely confident in my decision to purchase a Heartland RV! Quality AND customer service - great job!

Now, can someone call my dealer and see what the hold-up is??

 

[gregd]

Does your GFCI breaker still blow when plugging unit to your house? Did Jim's suggestion work?

 

[Deepsky3539]

Wanted to update everyone on this thread since it had a few definite concerns. Testing the unit with a plug tester indeed show's the ground and neutral's are separate. No shorts or anything odd like that. No matter what cord I use, the unit continues to blow my GFCI but runs perfectly fine on a non-GFCI. I even put the tester in to my 50 foot cord while it was hooked to the unit and it still tested fine. I think I am now pretty convinced that my overly large transformer (80 Watt) is simply too much for the plug. Oh ... I did have the water heater checked; just in case, and the electric element is in fine working condition.

Now all I have to do is put the 2K dollars worth of stuff I ordered for my truck on and I should be able to pass sports cars while towing. Just kidding.