Upgrade to larger tow vehicle

[Lndeatr]

I recently purchased a Cyclone 300C and as a result upgraded to a Class A noncommercial to be legal. The only restriction listed is 71 "Class A restricted to towing single trailer coaches only, not for compensation - not valid for Class B vehicles". I expected it to show the Autotrans restriction and say something about being noncommercial. Until 2011 I had a Class B commercial, to drive the jail transport bus (basically a tour bus) and it had the auto trans restriction (64). At the commercial testing facility they told me that I could drive anything as long as the GVWR of the tow vehicle was less than 26001 lbs and I was not for hire.

So I called my CHP commercial buddy who is one of the big mucky mucks for the commercial units in the Sacramento area and she told me the following:

1. Despite anything I read or hear from friends, forums or even DMV handbooks and employees, they enforce the Vehicle Code as it is interpreted by the Attorney General. I can relate to this as I have been in law enforcement for 25 years and no matter what misinformation someone has, the bottom line is the code sections. So basically CHP does not always agree with the interpretation by DMV. She did say even with some differing interpretations, what the courts (for the most part) go forward with is in line with what CHP does.

2. If I buy a tow vehicle with a GVWR over 11,5000 lbs and register it as a noncommercial not for hire, I am ok as long as I do not drive it without the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel attached. If I disconnect and drive it on the road for any reason, I will need a Motor Carrier Permit ($35.00 a year) and a CA Number on the door. If I get a Federal DOT number, I would not need a CA number. She suggested I do this as I do travel out of state and there would be less chance of a hassle. If I buy a tow vehicle with a GVWR over 26,001 lbs, I will need a class A commercial license.

3. If I buy any vehicle with airbrakes, I will need to add the airbrake endorsement.

4. Since my license does not have the restriction 64, I can drive a manual transmission vehicle.

Now I am seriously considering looking for a good used tractor single axel to pull my rig. Just browsing for a few minutes, I see clean trucks, some with sleepers and some set up for 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheels available for high teens to $40,000. Currently I am close to the max with my F350 and if I max the trailer with fuel and water, motorcycle and the family, I am over the limit. A new dually pickup would run upwards of $50,000. Has anyone else considered this option?

 

[scottyb]

It amazes me how far outside the box CA is in it's licensing, and a few other things.

There are several here using tractors as tow rigs and most swear by them. I'm sure one of them will chime in. It would not work for me due to the activities that I participate in at my destinations like driving off road. However, my long range plan is for a truck conversion motorhome and enclosed trailer that will include all my toys and a smaller 4WD vehicle, but that is a few years down the road.

Funny thing in Texas, a tractor has no maximum length restriction nor max combo length. A semi trailer can only be 59' or triples can only be 29' each, but the tractor itself and the combined overall length is not restricted. A truck or RV can only be 45' and have a combined length of 65'. There are a lot of motorhomes and truck conversions, mostly in motorsports, towing trailers and stackers that are exceeding these limits considerably. They say that they do not get harrasses.

 

[JanAndBill]

If you watch the sales, you can find a decent single axle tractor for a good price. Some of the LTL guys around here ran some single axle Internationals with a DT466 engine. Short wheelbase, easy to maneuver, and plenty of power. If you're mechanically inclined and willing to do a little work, you can build up a nice unit that will give you years of service. The older model tractors are fairly easy to work on, and the price for parts is not much different then a 1 ton. That said, you should understand that the ride will never be as good as the 1 ton (even if the tractor is air ride). Also, don't expect to save any money over a 1 ton. If you plan on going up to 450 or 550 you might save a little, but even then it would be close. Fuel mileage is probably not going to be as good on the tractor.

 

[JanAndBill]

Funny thing in Texas, a tractor has no maximum length restriction nor max combo length. A semi trailer can only be 59' or triples can only be 29' each, but the tractor itself and the combined overall length is not restricted.

From the Federal DOT site: "A state may not impose an overall length limit on a truck tractor pulling a single semitrailer or a limit on the distance between the axles of such truck tractor while operating on the National Network or reasonable access to". "The maximum overall length of cargo-carryingunits that States may allow for twin trailer combinations when onetrailing unit is longer than 28.5 feet is determined by the IntermodalSurface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 (ISTEA).

 

[Invizatu]

2. If I buy a tow vehicle with a GVWR over 11,5000 lbs and register it as a noncommercial not for hire, I am ok as long as I do not drive it without the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel attached. If I disconnect and drive it on the road for any reason, I will need a Motor Carrier Permit ($35.00 a year) and a CA Number on the door.

What? My 2012 Ram 3500 (1 ton) dually has a gvwr of 12,300 lbs and it's not registered as commercial or for hire. That means I can't use it as my daily driver? That makes no sense to me. That's not the case in Texas for sure.

 

[MTPockets]

2. If I buy a tow vehicle with a GVWR over 11,5000 lbs and register it as a noncommercial not for hire, I am ok as long as I do not drive it without the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel attached. If I disconnect and drive it on the road for any reason, I will need a Motor Carrier Permit ($35.00 a year) and a CA Number on the door.

What? My 2012 Ram 3500 (1 ton) dually has a gvwr of 12,300 lbs and it's not registered as commercial or for hire. That means I can't use it as my daily driver? That makes no sense to me. That's not the case in Texas for sure.

14,000 GVWR on my F350 licensed in Florida. That 11,500 just doesn't sound right- But, California

 

[Invizatu]

After a little searching, I found some interesting information. First off, TXBOBCAT (Bob) had called DPS and was informed that it does not matter what the sticker in the door says, the laws and regulations are based on what is on the registration. My door sticker says GVWR of 12,300 which is dry weight of 7800 plus payload of 4500 (dually). My registration and title both state dry weight of 7,500 plus 2,000 payload, a total of 9,500 lbs. (which is basically what a SRW would be) All information is based on the vin number punched in their computers. So the 9,500 plus my trailer GVWR of 15,500 puts me at 25,000 lbs (on paper), which means I don't need a Class A (non commercial) license. Bob was told they would not let him take the test for a class A unless his paperwork showed a GCVWR of 26,001 lbs or more. (TEXAS)

 

[JanAndBill]

Been down this road many times. It is based on the weight rating in their database, presumably which is tied into the NHTSA. The decal on the door may or may not be accurate in all cases. It is the responsiblity of the owner to properly register their vehicle for it's weight class, not the people in the license office. As to commercial license there is a lot of good information here nationwide: http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml

 

[marvmarcy]

We have been fulltime with the truck in my signature below since 2007. Our 2002 F550 kept tearing up its transmission pulling our 20,000# Newmar fiver, and road handling showed we were at the limits of the truck. We bought the Volvo in early 2007, put on an ET air hitch, and headed out. The Volvo rides considerably better than the F550 and gets better fuel mileage towing. The Volvo is registered in MT as a coach (motorhome) - definitely non-commercial. It was assigned a GVWR of 20,000# on the registration and title, which is well over the truck and pin weight. Our current combined weight is around 32,000#. I got a letter from the state DOJ just in case someone challenges me, because the local tag office didn't want to do it. In MT there is no special endorsement required, just my basic license. The truck can't pull anything but my trailer to stay legal, but it can bobtail anywhere. Since it is 11+ years old, it has a one-time permanent tag - so no taxes on it. I love cruising up the mountain passes in overdrive and having a real Jake brake so I seldom touch the service brake, even on long steep downhills.

I recommend you look at the Escapees forum at www.rvnetwork.com, particularly the hdt and rvs, tows and toads for sale sections. You will find a wealth of info there.

 

[scottyb]

Funny thing in Texas, a tractor has no maximum length restriction nor max combo length. A semi trailer can only be 59' or triples can only be 29' each, but the tractor itself and the combined overall length is not restricted.

From the Federal DOT site: "A state may not impose an overall length limit on a truck tractor pulling a single semitrailer or a limit on the distance between the axles of such truck tractor while operating on the National Network or reasonable access to". "The maximum overall length of cargo-carryingunits that States may allow for twin trailer combinations when onetrailing unit is longer than 28.5 feet is determined by the IntermodalSurface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 (ISTEA).

You are correct sir, and the attachment in my post corroberates that fact. I said 29' and it is actually 28' 6". There is no overall lehgth restriction on the tractor itself but the semi trailer can only be 59' max.

 

[scottyb]

Bob was told they would not let him take the test for a class A unless his paperwork showed a GCVWR of 26,001 lbs or more. (TEXAS)

I took my driving test in Marble Falls and nobody ever asked for any paperwork, nor did they look at the sticker on my truck or my Cyclone. I drove the rig to the DMV and drove it home with a Class A. Stay away from big city DMV's if you can. There was a 2 week wait to take the driving test in Austin. I called to see which days they were doing them and did a walk-in the next morning in Marble Falls.

 

[danemayer]

In August every school system in Texas is hiring bus drivers who have to take a driving test. It's a busy time.

 

[rumaco]

problem with bigger pullers is that there is a bill making it's way through our government that would require rec class C licenses and that means the ability to keep that license over the years with physicals and drivers testing.......it is coming.

 

[rumaco]

Amazing since the 550 has an Allison? Wow what are you doing to it???????????

 

[marvmarcy]

Amazing since the 550 has an Allison? Wow what are you doing to it???????????

Never seen a F550 or smaller Ford with an Allison. GM has the Duramax/Allison. My 2002 F550 had a Ford 4R100 tranny. Big difference.

What government is going to require a non-commercial vehicle driver have a rec class C license? WA state? The feds can't do it. Private vehicle licenses are state concerns. Of course, nobody knows what the feds will try to take over next.

 

[JanAndBill]

problem with bigger pullers is that there is a bill making it's way through our government that would require rec class C licenses and that means the ability to keep that license over the years with physicals and drivers testing.......it is coming.

There has to be some responsiblity on the part of individuals as to their qualifications for operating any vehicle on a public road. None of us own the road, we share it with other drivers who we have to assume are qualified to operate that hunk of metal hurtling toward us. Just like a truck vs car, an RV vs car is going to do a lot of damage. That said, over the years there has not been a public outcry about "those big bad RVs killing and maiming poor innocent people". I can only assume that if there was suffiicient evidence that it was a problem then there would be statistical data to back it up. To the contrary, I haven't found much detrimental data on RV drivers. What little bit does exist seems to indicate that the group as a whole is pretty safe.

 

[crazybanshee]

Lndeatr we have been using an HDT for twelve years to pull our fivers. Wouldn't do it any other way. My 99 f350 just turned over 100K miles. It just sits in the garage and looks shiny.

 

[DW_Gray]

There is a less expensive alternative than going with a bigger truck. Keep your F350 and tow safely using the Automated Safety Hitch System. Read my latest article on this system. The Potential of Integrated Trailer Safety With the Automated Safety Hitch System

 

[Lndeatr]

Crazybanshee, exactly what I am looking to do. I am looking to have a tow vehicle that isn't labored or at its maximum legal weights. As it is now, I can't legally pull it if I am full of water and fuel in the trailer tanks. Your rig looks like it would be perfect.

The safety hitch post looks cool but it would mean having a class A commercial with a doubles endorsement. Also it doesn't help with maxing the weight limits but actually adds towing weight. It looks like it would bring me pretty close to maximum length.

 

[DW_Gray]

Crazybanshee, exactly what I am looking to do. I am looking to have a tow vehicle that isn't labored or at its maximum legal weights. As it is now, I can't legally pull it if I am full of water and fuel in the trailer tanks. Your rig looks like it would be perfect.

The safety hitch post looks cool but it would mean having a class A commercial with a doubles endorsement. Also it doesn't help with maxing the weight limits but actually adds towing weight. It looks like it would bring me pretty close to maximum length.

You will not need a doubles endorsement. And the length is not included. The safety hitch increases your towing capacity by 50%. Just about any 3/4 ton diesel with towing package can tow long and heavy 5th wheel trailers.

Example: If the truck's towing capacity is 16,500 pounds, with the safety hitch, you can safely tow up to 24,750 pounds.