Water Heater Issues

[TerribleTim68]

Hey gang,
I'll be digging through the water heater troubleshooting posts and links to try and find something that will help me. But I figured I'd throw this out there for the collective knowledge, maybe someone has some advice here.

We took the unit out in October for a weekend getaway at our usual spot. Water heater worked fine, I even took a relaxing warm shower (as did the wife after me). Took the unit home, winterized it by pulling the anode rod out of the water heater and draining the entire water system using the low point drain valve at the UDS. We felt that the anode rod could use replaced since we bought this unit used and had no actual idea when it had last been replaced. It didn't look horrible, but cheap insurance is cheap insurance, so I went down to our local Camping World and got a new one, placed it in the unit to remind me to put it in next time we went out.

We took the unit to our usual spot for the New Year's weekend (I got 4 days off there, so yay me). I put the new anode rod in it and connected the water system to our hookup. for whatever reason, the water heater would simply not do anything at all. When I turned on the switch inside the heater did not try to light the gas burner. There was no audible "click, click, click" as it tried to light, no nothing at all. I tried giving it some time to maybe get gas up to the heater, but shouldn't the igniter attempt to light regardless of gas being present?

Regarding the small switch at the heater (the one outside behind the cover that switches it to electric mode), because I know this is going to come up. It has been in the "OFF" position since we purchased the unit, I never even knew it was there until trying to research why the igniter wasn't doing anything and why I had no hot water. I tried to flip it to "ON" but found that it is froze up solid. No amount of pressure will flip it to the "ON" position. At least no amount that I can muster anyways. Can you guys think of anything that would cause that switch to freeze up like that?
EDIT: Okay, after digging into the troubleshooting guide it mentions a cotter pin for the electrical mode switch. Possible this is why I could not flip the switch to the "ON" position. However, I do not see in the pics of this switch where a cotter pin would be located or how something that tiny could be in there. Does someone have a pic of the cotter pin in your switch?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. in the mean time I'll be off pouring through manuals, troubleshooting guides and various online help outlets in my quest to figure out WTF happened to my hot water source. Cold showers are not that fun in winter.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yeah, since this will come up too -
I checked the breaker panel, nothing was tripped. I tripped the water heater breaker and turned it back on just to be sure. No change. I did not see a water heater fuse in the fuse panel.

 

[Ace11]

Did you flip the Hot Water Bypass back in position to fill the tank ? ?

Possibly something like that ( ?? )

 

[TerribleTim68]

Did you flip the Hot Water Bypass back in position to fill the tank ? ?

Possibly something like that ( ?? )

I never flipped the hot water bypass, so I assume it was not in bypass mode. Honestly, I'm not sure which one my hot water bypass even is. My UDS doesn't look like all of the pictures I see out there, and since I bought it used nobody explained how anything on it works. But I can tell you this, the water heater tank was full when I removed the anode rod because I wasn't patient enough and got a bath. So it was not in bypass mode and was full.

 

[TerribleTim68]

Just for comparison, because everyone tells me my UDS is odd. Here is a pic of what I have on my unit (Note that this is not my actual unit, but is plumbed the exact same. Mine has black hoses instead of blue and all of my stickers saying what does what are long gone) -

I have determined that the "low point drain" is open when facing "down" and closed when turned "sideways". In this pic it is shown open. The valve to the left of the low point drain has been in the "open" or "down" position since I purchased the rig and I still have no clue what it does at all. It was down when I got the rig, so I have left it there for the 5 months I've owned the rig since I can't figure out what it does. I can tell you that the water heater worked that first time out with that valve in the down, or "open" position, so it shouldn't affect it. I keep hoping a Heartland employee can tell me what it is, or point me to a diagram and/or manual for this UDS, but so far nothing.

 

[danemayer]

It sounds like you have a Suburban Water Heater, since you have an anode rod and a small rocker switch in the lower left hand corner on the outside of the heater.

That rocker switch is a secondary switch. It's function is to protect the electric heating element when an RV is on the dealer lot or on display at a show. People walking through the rig may flip the interior electric switch ON. At that point the water heater is usually empty, and turning on the heating element will burn it out quickly.

You'll find a primary switch for the electric side of the water heater somewhere inside the rig - probably with the other interior switches and controls. On older rigs, the switch is probably a wall-type light switch that illuminates when turned on. However, if the secondary switch is off, or there's another interruption in the circuit, I'm not sure if it will illuminate.

If there's a cotter pin in the secondary switch, you should be able to see it pretty easily. If your vision is impaired, you should be able to feel it. It's not that small.

If there's no cotter pin and the switch won't move, you'll probably need to replace the switch, or bypass it. Bypassing it isn't too much of a risk as most of us never turn it off anyway. You should be able to press a small knife blade under the flange of the switch to depress the locking tab so you can pull it out. Do that with the circuit breaker turned off. After you expose the wires on the back of the switch and turn power back on, you should read 120V AC from one terminal of the switch to frame ground. With the switch ON, you should read 120V AC from either terminal to frame ground.

For the propane operation, there must be a 12V DC supply which I would expect to come from the main fuse box inside the coach. When you turn on the water heater propane switch, if the switch has an LED build in, it should illuminate. If not, the switch is not getting power. If your fuse box has LED indicators next to each fuse, turn on the water heater propane switch and see if any of those indicators light up. That would mean the fuse next to the LED is blown.

If the propane switch LED illuminates, you've got 12V DC to the switch. I've attached a pic of the 12V wiring.

You can check for voltage very easily at the ECO/Thermostat contacts. Remove the cover and check the right-hand assembly for 12V DC.

 

[TerribleTim68]

Interesting Dane,
So you are saying that the small switch outside behind the heater outer cover shuts the heater off totally, regardless of it being in either propane or electric mode? I thought from reading the troubleshooting manual that it was the mode selector switch. I do have a wall switch, like a light switch, inside the unit that illuminates red when turned on. I am not aware of any other switches for the water heater inside the unit though, so if the mode selector switch is located inside, I have yet to locate it.

This just keeps baffling me.

 

[JohnDar]

If you have a monitor panel inside your rig that shows the levels of the tanks and battery charge, there should be switches like you see in this photo. This is what they were using in older rigs like ours. The left switch lights up the tank level indicators and battery lights, the center switch is to activate the on board water pump to draw from the tank, the one on the right is for the water heater. The little LED next to it will light, the system will try three times to ignite the burner and will shut off the LED if it fails. Usually, it helps to light a stove burner when first turning on the propane tanks to clear air from the lines before trying to light the water heater.

The red light switch in the lower left corner of my "control panel" is to turn on the 120V to the water heater.

If, after checking voltages at the Hi-Limit switches (ECO/Thermostats) under the black cover, you find you need to replace one, it's fairly easy and they run between $30 and $40 depending on where you get one. The OEM switches are set for 120 degrees, but you may have to take one that goes to 130. It won't hurt the system, just give you hotter water depending on whether it's in the 12V (propane) or 120V spot. If you want faster recovery of hot water after both of you taking showers (or the wife takes too long), you can turn on both systems.

 

[danemayer]

Interesting Dane,
So you are saying that the small switch outside behind the heater outer cover shuts the heater off totally, regardless of it being in either propane or electric mode? I thought from reading the troubleshooting manual that it was the mode selector switch. I do have a wall switch, like a light switch, inside the unit that illuminates red when turned on. I am not aware of any other switches for the water heater inside the unit though, so if the mode selector switch is located inside, I have yet to locate it.

This just keeps baffling me.

There is no mode selector. On Suburban water heaters, the propane and electric operate independently. In fact, you can run both propane and electric operation at the same time. The little black rocker switch affects the 120V AC operation only.

120V AC flows from campground pedestal--->power cord--->main circuit breakers----> water heater circuit breaker ---> illuminating wall-type switch----> junction box on the front inside corner of the water heater ---> small black rocker switch---> 120V AC ECO/Thermostat assembly---> Electric heating element ---> neutral wire return to circuit breaker panel.

12V DC for the propane operation flows from fuse box ---> propane water heater switch in the control panel ---> junction box on front inside corner of water heater ---> 12V DC ECO/Thermostat assembly ---> controller ---> gas valve and direct spark ignition ---> ground wire return to the fuse box. And note that the fuse box gets 12V DC power from either the Power Converter if on shore power, or from the battery, if it's charged up.

 

[TerribleTim68]

John,
BINGO! I don't know how I never noticed that little switch below the level indicators. for some reason my mind had it made up that the only switches there were the pump and the status rocker. But there it is, the little red switch with the tiny red light, just like yours -

I'll need to check the igniter later when I have an extra person to man the other end of things.

Dane,
Back to the tiny switch outside at the heater -

As you can see, no cotter pin. It's frozen solid. Should I replace it, or does it even matter? Currently it's in the "OFF' position, as you can see. It's been this way ever since I got the rig. The only time I've ever used the water heater was in gas mode.

Also, when you say "illuminating wall-type switch" are you speaking of this big one at what would be the bottom left of this image? And when you say "propane water heater switch in the control panel" I assume you mean the little one in my first picture above, right above the porch light switch, correct? -


Sorry for all the photos being rotated. I took them on my phone and apparently my computer can't figure out which way is up and down, even when I rotate them.

 

[danemayer]

John,
BINGO! I don't know how I never noticed that little switch below the level indicators. for some reason my mind had it made up that the only switches there were the pump and the status rocker. But there it is, the little red switch with the tiny red light, just like yours -
View attachment 60245
I'll need to check the igniter later when I have an extra person to man the other end of things.

Dane,
Back to the tiny switch outside at the heater -
View attachment 60246
As you can see, no cotter pin. It's frozen solid. Should I replace it, or does it even matter? Currently it's in the "OFF' position, as you can see. It's been this way ever since I got the rig. The only time I've ever used the water heater was in gas mode.

Also, when you say "illuminating wall-type switch" are you speaking of this big one at what would be the bottom left of this image? And when you say "propane water heater switch in the control panel" I assume you mean the little one in my first picture above, right above the porch light switch, correct? -
View attachment 60247

Sorry for all the photos being rotated. I took them on my phone and apparently my computer can't figure out which way is up and down, even when I rotate them.

Electric operation: Picture 3 shows the wall-type switch labeled 'Water Heater'. It needs to be ON. The small black rocker switch on the water heater also needs to be ON. If it's stuck, you'll need to either replace it or bypass it by taking it out, removing the wires and joining them together (do this with power off).

Propane operation: Picture 1 shows the switch to turn on the propane operation - as you found from John's post.

 

[TerribleTim68]

Thanks Dane and John, appreciate all of your help.

 

[JohnDar]

Eventually, we manage to figure out what may be the problem. Not always, but sometimes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TerribleTim68]

Okay, so update, just for those coming along after me.....

So I took the wife out last night and had her flip the tiny red rocker switch on the control panel while I stood outside next to the water heater with the cover off. Low and behold, the igniter started trying to light. So yay me, it works in propane mode! Apparently I'm just an idiot and don't know how my rig works. So to all of you who guided me along the way here, huge thank you for steering me straight! Now all I gotta do is remember what you guys told me come next camping trip!

As for the electric mode stuff, it looks like I'm gonna have to either replace or bypass the small black switch at the water heater because it is stuck in "OFF" position like there is no tomorrow. That little bugger just won't move, period. So I'll worry about that later, when it stops raining here in Washington State. So like, maybe next June.

 

[JohnDar]

Okay, so update, just for those coming along after me.....

So I took the wife out last night and had her flip the tiny red rocker switch on the control panel while I stood outside next to the water heater with the cover off. Low and behold, the igniter started trying to light. So yay me, it works in propane mode! Apparently I'm just an idiot and don't know how my rig works. So to all of you who guided me along the way here, huge thank you for steering me straight! Now all I gotta do is remember what you guys told me come next camping trip!

As for the electric mode stuff, it looks like I'm gonna have to either replace or bypass the small black switch at the water heater because it is stuck in "OFF" position like there is no tomorrow. That little bugger just won't move, period. So I'll worry about that later, when it stops raining here in Washington State. So like, maybe next June.

Try giving it a little "love tap" with a rubber mallet. It that don't work, show it you mean business with a 6lb. maul. :O If nothing else, it will make it easier to remove the now smaller pieces.

 

[Garypowell]

I had one break electrically and once I realized it I simply removed it from the circuit. Pull the switch out with a small screwdriver blade, remove the blade connectors and connect them together. Use some electrical tape to protect the connection and shove it back into the hold. Then tape over the hole.