My wife went out to get something out of the 181 today and found that the rear wall below the window and the seats were all wet. We have gotten a lot of rain in the past few days. I removed the trim ring for the rear window and found water both above and below the window. I removed the curtain rod above the window and water started coming out of the screw holes! In addition, there was a drip coming out of the A/C unit. When I removed the A/C cover I found that the bolts on the retainer clamps that sandwich between the ceiling and roof were not even hand tight, they were loose. I really believed in Heartland and I know that there have been issues with the back windows on the 181, but the A/C unit has kinda made me very mad. Of course I am 6 months out of warranty. Has anyone taken the ceiling panels down without destroying them? I want to make sure there isn't a leak higher than the window. I hope the water coming through the window is just wicking up into the ceiling panel. I have seen the drip gutters that others have installed but I think I may have to remove the window and re-seal.
Wet seats in Wyoming
- Thread starter ryanman
- Start date
Dude, that's a bummer. Here is my experience and hopefully it will help. In 2012 I purchased my 2011 185 for significantly less than retail. What do I know about travel trailers? The original owners had it for less than a year and were taking a LARGE hit on price - caveat emptor. The visible problem was water leaking onto the back sill, just as you describe (non visible quality problems were aplenty to be discovered later). When we went to look at the trailer, in fact, there was a puddle. It appeared that someone (a three year old?) had caulked and recaulked the rear window, and it was obvious it was still leaking. Sellers sad it was the dealer, under warranty, and acted surprised it was still leaking. Hmmmm.
Anyway, the leak exhibited itself off and on for the rest of 2012. There was also water ending up in the aft pass through storage compartment (just for S&Gs, see if it's damp there on yours). Clearly, there was water flowing down the whole back panel.
I assumed it was still coming from the window. I removed all the old sealant and recaulked the rear window top, bottom, sides, the aft running lights, and installed some expensive flexible rv gutter over the window. The leak persisted, but maybe was not as bad. It just seems like a bad idea to have a window that wide (181 and 185 both have the back window) without a beak such as you would have on your chimney on a house. Back to the drawing board.
Without going into detail on this post, I removed the roof top air conditioner with the intention of installing a roof hatch. As I had began to suspect, the source of the leak is the AC. There is basically nothing there to keep water out of the laminate. The Dometic instructions talk about a flange or a seal, and also warn against installing the unit in a low spot on a roof. Well, the unit itself causes the roof to bow in some, and there is nothing there to keep the water out.
So, meandering story aside, you touched on what in my experience is the source of you TT's leak and possible ultimate demise - the AC. Once I replaced it with a properly sealed roof hatch, my leaks were all 100% gone. In fact, after the recent torrential rain we had (you probably had it too) the rear sill and the aft storage compartment were bone dry. Problem solved. I think the rain gutter over the window is also not a bad idea....I've got a bunch extra which I am willing to part with......but the main thing is to seal up or otherwise solve the problem at the AC. Another ding on heartland QC....
Next question, how much damage has been done? Mine leaked for ~20 months. I do not know enough about these things to make a good judgement. I am hopeful mine is still okay. There seems to be a gap between the actual fiberglass/backing and the underlying roof structure. Water can easily flow / wick down this gap, but it also means it can dry out relatively quickly. It is possible that you won't experience any delamination issues. I am going to risk it am keep my TT, I have spent a LOT of time and some money fixing quality control and design issues and I have her pretty close to where I want her now (except for the oxidation issue and a decent awning). She's set up very nicely for boondocking.
Good luck! Bottom line, everyone with leaks on the rear needs to examine their AC installation.
Anyway, the leak exhibited itself off and on for the rest of 2012. There was also water ending up in the aft pass through storage compartment (just for S&Gs, see if it's damp there on yours). Clearly, there was water flowing down the whole back panel.
I assumed it was still coming from the window. I removed all the old sealant and recaulked the rear window top, bottom, sides, the aft running lights, and installed some expensive flexible rv gutter over the window. The leak persisted, but maybe was not as bad. It just seems like a bad idea to have a window that wide (181 and 185 both have the back window) without a beak such as you would have on your chimney on a house. Back to the drawing board.
Without going into detail on this post, I removed the roof top air conditioner with the intention of installing a roof hatch. As I had began to suspect, the source of the leak is the AC. There is basically nothing there to keep water out of the laminate. The Dometic instructions talk about a flange or a seal, and also warn against installing the unit in a low spot on a roof. Well, the unit itself causes the roof to bow in some, and there is nothing there to keep the water out.
So, meandering story aside, you touched on what in my experience is the source of you TT's leak and possible ultimate demise - the AC. Once I replaced it with a properly sealed roof hatch, my leaks were all 100% gone. In fact, after the recent torrential rain we had (you probably had it too) the rear sill and the aft storage compartment were bone dry. Problem solved. I think the rain gutter over the window is also not a bad idea....I've got a bunch extra which I am willing to part with......but the main thing is to seal up or otherwise solve the problem at the AC. Another ding on heartland QC....
Next question, how much damage has been done? Mine leaked for ~20 months. I do not know enough about these things to make a good judgement. I am hopeful mine is still okay. There seems to be a gap between the actual fiberglass/backing and the underlying roof structure. Water can easily flow / wick down this gap, but it also means it can dry out relatively quickly. It is possible that you won't experience any delamination issues. I am going to risk it am keep my TT, I have spent a LOT of time and some money fixing quality control and design issues and I have her pretty close to where I want her now (except for the oxidation issue and a decent awning). She's set up very nicely for boondocking.
Good luck! Bottom line, everyone with leaks on the rear needs to examine their AC installation.
seconded
There is a foam rubber seal under the AC unit. Before it is installed, the gasket is about one inch thick.
When the unit is installed and the bolts tightened, the gasket should compress to about 1/2 inch.
Check your gasket to see if it is about 1/2 inch thick. If not you will need to tighten the bolts from the inside to achieve that number. A torque of about 40-50 inch pounds.
Peace
Dave
Wow...thanks jimmyd. I have really been wondering about that A/C unit and the big swimming pool that is created on the roof. I have since opened everything up and put a fan in there to dry everything out. I have noticed separation in the rear window seal (outside) in the sealant. I have dabbed some silicone all the way around the window to try and rule that one out. We have a big storm moving in tomorrow so we will see if it slows down at all. I just can't imagine all the water sitting on the roof is a good thing. I may have to tarp for the winter and tackle this issue come spring. Were the bolts holding the A/C down loose as mine were? You would think that a metal flashing could be designed to act as a curb around the A/C unit...similar to what is around a roof top unit on a building. At least, I am not the only one wondering why the water is so high up. I did drop the rear lights above the table and could not find any water in that area (about 3 ft above the window) but water will take the path of least resistance and that path may not lead near the light holes. Fall has really decreased my desire to fix this, so I will keep you posted. Thanks
Thanks for the specs and insight Dave.
I dug through my pile of removed MPG bits to examine the AC. Dave is correct, I had misspoke in an earlier post. There is a foam rubber gasket about 1" thick glued to the bottom of the AC, in addition to a couple of foam blocks of the same material and thickness. Reviewing the Dometic guide mentions a gasket. I had assumed they were different, but maybe they are referring to the foam. I assumed the foam's purpose was vibration isolation. Maybe it is intended for sealing. You are familiar with the old saying about assuming.....
It does not seem like the foam would do an effective job of sealing out a puddle of standing water, even when compressed. Maybe it does. If you compare the foam to the Butyl Tape one uses when installing a roof hatch, you might be inclined to agree with this assessment.
Ryanman could try torquing down the mounting bolts on his unit and see if that fixes the leak. That is a free experiment, very easy, just remove the airbox. What could it hurt? If that doesn't do it, he could try using Butyl tape between the foam and the roof. That might be a bad idea, it would be a M-F to remove when you need to remove it....but you could waterproof a screen door with that stuff.
I apologize for veering into speculation. To summarize my personal experience with this with simple factual statements;
1) I had water leaking inside, evinced by water on the aft sill and pass through compartment.
2) I added gutter over the back window and caulked the window and running lights. The leak persisted.
3) I removed the AC unit. I replaced it with a roof hatch sealed with Butyl tape as a gasket and Dicor lap sealant.
4) The leak is gone.
I replaced the AC with a roof hatch, sealed with Butyl Tape and Dicor lap sealant. I added a 10" x 20" fiberglass side hatch and removed the microwave oven. I installed a 6K BTU window air conditioner where the microwave formerly was. It is mounted internally, vibration isloated with 1" of closed cell foam on all sides, and ducted separately for intake and exhaust air. You have to open the side hatch to run the AC. My 1.7KW / 2KW peak generator can easily run that AC, but could not handle the starting load on the 11K BTU roof unit, even with a Suppco SPP6 soft start capacitor installed.
If you look at the volume of space 11K BTU can cool, it is about twice the volume of the MPG. 6K or 8K BTU is a more appropriate size and manageable with a 2KW generator. We tried the setup in Las Vegas this August....100 degree F. Wife complained it was too cold...if I ever do it over, I'll get an 8K BTU unit, but other than that, success!
Quick update.... I torqued the A/c bolts (clamps) before winter and caulked the rear window. I have just gotten the trailer out of storage for the winter (it was covered) and put it in the driveway (uncovered). A good shower today and I discovered water puddled up in the rear window well. ****! Has anyone tried to replace the rear window on one of these trailers? Looks like a disaster.
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Had to have the rear and front (not side) windows replaced on our MPG 180 as water was collecting in the inside metal trim. Had to take it back to have the new windows re-sealed as they were still leaking. Haven't been in rain since the last work was compled but no water seeped in during washing the unit. Hopefully the problem has been corrected.
I have the fix. First of all...I am not a expert RV repair man and in no way claim to be. This is what I did yesterday to repair the leak on my back window of my MPG 181.
Last year I resealed the top of the window where it meets the siding...I found small little pin holes in the lap sealant and that solved any upper window leaks. This year I had water filling the window well at the bottom. I found that I could push on the glass from the inside out and it moved!. The pictures will show that the sealant on the bottom of the glass to the point of allowing water to wick inside. I also noticed once I removed the outer molding that water puddles in the bottom of the outside of the window...under the molding because there are no weap holes to let the water out. I removed the glass, cleaned it and the frame, then re-sealed with the proflex I took a picture of. In addition, I drilled weap holes with a 1/8th bit to allow the water under the molding to escape. I put a hole on each side. These windows are not made to be put here...no weap holes. Cross your fingers.... I will evaluate in a few days.
I have a friend in the autobody biz that loaned me the knife for the glass cut out...you could use a razor and butter knife. Tape the outside to make sure it doesn't fall out.
I also tightened the A/C bolts again...they were loose after sitting all winter.
The first picture shows the materials that I used to glue the glass back on the frame (6-pack job). Pic2 shows the old sealer removal. Pic 3 is the new weap hole. Pic 5 is cutting out the glass. 6 is molding removal. Pic 7 is showing the white residue from the water wicking under the glass and inside.
Last year I resealed the top of the window where it meets the siding...I found small little pin holes in the lap sealant and that solved any upper window leaks. This year I had water filling the window well at the bottom. I found that I could push on the glass from the inside out and it moved!. The pictures will show that the sealant on the bottom of the glass to the point of allowing water to wick inside. I also noticed once I removed the outer molding that water puddles in the bottom of the outside of the window...under the molding because there are no weap holes to let the water out. I removed the glass, cleaned it and the frame, then re-sealed with the proflex I took a picture of. In addition, I drilled weap holes with a 1/8th bit to allow the water under the molding to escape. I put a hole on each side. These windows are not made to be put here...no weap holes. Cross your fingers.... I will evaluate in a few days.
I have a friend in the autobody biz that loaned me the knife for the glass cut out...you could use a razor and butter knife. Tape the outside to make sure it doesn't fall out.
I also tightened the A/C bolts again...they were loose after sitting all winter.
The first picture shows the materials that I used to glue the glass back on the frame (6-pack job). Pic2 shows the old sealer removal. Pic 3 is the new weap hole. Pic 5 is cutting out the glass. 6 is molding removal. Pic 7 is showing the white residue from the water wicking under the glass and inside.
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Ryanman, I appreciate the pic's and your comments. If the last fix made by the dealer doesn't work this time I will try your solution. Outside of the problems with the leaking windows and the replacemenst of the axle, which was provided by Lippert, haven't experienced any other issues. We think the MPG could fill a nitch in the travel trailer industry. They just need to correct a few design issues. PS do you drink the ale befor or after the installation. jearnest
Purchased a 2 yr old MPG last spring. Had to replace the axel (Lippert helped with that), also found out the hard way that the rear window was leaking. Had an RV guy look at it, he said it was put in with household silicone. He reinstalled it with automotive sealant and no problems since...
