Why am I getting shocked?

[zeus7625]

Not sure where to post this one but I'm sure the moderators will send this to the correct area.
Here's the scenario:
2012 NT 21FBS
I had just finished washing the outside of the trailer and was in the process of hooking up the TV to bring it back to storage. While I was washing the trailer I was connected to shore power and was listening to the radio through the external speakers. Everything was going great until I tried to connect the trailer emergency brake cable to the TV. Every time I touched the hitch or metal at the rear of the TV I got shocked. I thought for a second and turned off the radio (but still connected to shore power) and did not get shocked. Has anyone had this problem?
I've had this trailer for over a year and this is the first time this has happened.
My first reaction was to rip the radio from the wall and check for loose wires but then I decided to bring it to the forum.
Any ideas or solutions are appreciated.

 

[jimtoo]

I would sure be super careful. But you may have a loose ground wire on that circuit.

I'm sure some of our other members with electrical experience will jump in soon.

Jim M

 

[codycarver]

Here is a link that you may find helpful.
Good Luck

http://www.noshockzone.org/

 

[TedS]

Doesn't the radio run on 12vdc? 12 volts should not give you a sensible shock.
Getting a shock from the trailer frame would mean you have an open ground and getting AC voltage to the frame. Cody's reference link is a good one.

 

[danemayer]

Zeus,

First of all, even though the problem seems to have gone away when the radio was shut off, voltage on the frame is potentially serious enough that you shouldn't assume this is a 12V problem. Home depot sells non-contact AC voltage testers as low as $10. Get one and touch the frame with it to make sure you don't have an AC problem. An improperly wired pedestal, a defective power cord or extension cord, or adapter could all create an unsafe condition where a shorted appliance could leak AC to the frame instead of to ground.

This is probably not what you're dealing with, but it's not worth finding out the hard way. Spend the $10 to rule out an AC problem before you start taking things apart.

 

[zeus7625]

Doesn't the radio run on 12vdc? 12 volts should not give you a sensible shock.
Getting a shock from the trailer frame would mean you have an open ground and getting AC voltage to the frame. Cody's reference link is a good one.

Yes, the radio runs on 12v dc but was it coincidental that I was no longer shocked when I turned off the radio? I have hitched and unhitched the trailer many times connected to shore power and never felt a tingle.
Thanks for the feedback

 

[Tombstonejim]

I think the key here is "just washed" you had a lot more water and dampness on the ground and your shoes/boots and made a better ground than in normal conditions. Let the water dry up and I bet it does not happen. There is still some voltage on the chassis somewhere
If you have a volt meter try measuring it to some good ground or even the truck and see what you get.

 

[porthole]

Washing or not - you have a problem. Either with the trailer or or shore side wiring.



iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dbbls59]

I would be suspicious of the shore power wiring.

 

[RSIG]

Are you plugged into a three prong outlet at the house? Are you using a heavy duty extension with three prongs? If not your electrical is not grounded and will cause a shock when you ground the trailer off when you attach the emergency cable to the hitch.

 

[evolvingpowercat]

> TV

Did you mean RV everywhere the post says TV? Were you connecting the RV to your tow vehicle when you got shocked?



I would be safe and NOT plug the trailer into the outlet you had it plugged in to when you got shocked until you find the cause!

Get a non contact voltage tester at a hardware store or home depot !!! Plug the trailer in ONLY to check it with the non-contact tester. Don't touch the trailer just hold the non contact tester near its metal frame. If it says your trailer has "hot skin" UNPLUG IT AT ONCE and work the problem!

The outlet you have your trailer plugged in to may be mis-wired in such a way that the ground pin and neutral are really at 110 Volts and the power pin is the neutral, making the ground side of what ever you plug into that outlet hot. Very dangerous and deadly but does not show up with a standard outlet tester. The non contact voltage tester is the only straight forward safe way to determine this. More details on the noshockzone.com web site.

One other possibility is that you got water penetration into the AC shore power plug-cable connection from your washing activities and created a AC path from the hot side to the trailer chassis if your trailer has a shore power plug on it. This would happen if you had no GFCI based shore power, or a bad GFCI shore power plug. You would have had to have been very agressive with your water spray directed right at the plug/socket connection to create the problem this way.

 

[ChopperBill]

Happened to me once when I plugged an extension cord into a series of dog bone conversions. Finally changed the extension cord and the problem went a way and the guilty cord went into the trash.

 

[zeus7625]

I knew I came to the right place!
I now have a good checklist to continue troubleshooting.
I know I have a potentially serious situation and do not take it lightly, thanks for the warnings.
I hope it's nothing more than a bad extension cord. I'll report with my findings.

Thanks again,

Jesus

 

[jmsokol]

Zeus,

First of all, even though the problem seems to have gone away when the radio was shut off, voltage on the frame is potentially serious enough that you shouldn't assume this is a 12V problem. Home depot sells non-contact AC voltage testers as low as $10. Get one and touch the frame with it to make sure you don't have an AC problem. An improperly wired pedestal, a defective power cord or extension cord, or adapter could all create an unsafe condition where a shorted appliance could leak AC to the frame instead of to ground.

This is probably not what you're dealing with, but it's not worth finding out the hard way. Spend the $10 to rule out an AC problem before you start taking things apart.

I'm Mike Sokol, the author of the No~Shock~Zone articles and videos.

Please read this: http://www.noshockzone.org/rv-electrical-safety-part-iv-–-hot-skin/

and watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8h64X33aKg&feature=plcp

You may contact me directly if you have any questions, but be very careful. You have a potentially dangerous situation that doesn't sound like 12 volts DC to me. My email is mike@noshockzone.org.

 

[scottyb]

I was hooked up to a 50 A service two weekends ago. We were in the reminants of hurricane Isaac and the ground was soaked. I was getting buzzed everytime I reached up for the door handle. i wish i had my multimeter and had tested the recepticle. It was a commercial venue and i assumed the electrical was to code. Growing up around electric fences and such, i just laughed it off. Sounds like it deserved more respect and i will certainly have my meter with me at all times. In fact, i will purchase one of those testers like shown in the video. Thank you Mike for making this information available to everyone.

 

[jmsokol]

I was hooked up to a 50 A service two weekends ago. We were in the reminants of hurricane Isaac and the ground was soaked. I was getting buzzed everytime I reached up for the door handle. i wish i had my multimeter and had tested the recepticle. It was a commercial venue and i assumed the electrical was to code. Growing up around electric fences and such, i just laughed it off. Sounds like it deserved more respect and i will certainly have my meter with me at all times. In fact, i will purchase one of those testers like shown in the video. Thank you Mike for making this information available to everyone.

You're welcome...

If your RV is wired correctly, the pedestal outlet has a properly bonded safety ground, and all your extension cords and dogbone/pigtail adapters are perfect, then you should NEVER feel any sort of shock while touching your RV. However, a single break in any part of your safety ground path can allow your RV chassis and surface to become electrified as a "hot-skin". I do believe that most every modern RV is wired correctly from the factory, but campsite pedestals and home power outlets are suspect and should always be tested before plugging in.

And if you EVER feel a tingle of any kind, that's the time to take immediate action to determine the cause and safeguard yourself and your family. Remember, you're also saving somebody in the future from being shocked by that same mis-wired outlet you discovered, so don't just walk away. Report the failure to both the RV park and your own camping groups. That's the only way to get those mis-wired pedestals out of the system.

 

[jimtoo]

You're welcome...

If your RV is wired correctly, the pedestal outelt has a properly bonded safety ground, and all your extension cords and dogbone/pigtail adapters are perfect, then you should NEVER feel any sort of shock while touching your RV. However, a single break in any part of your safety ground path can allow your RV chassis and surface to become electrified as a "hot-skin". I do believe that most every modern RV is wired correctly from the factory, but campsite pedestals and home power outlets are suspect and should always be tested before plugging in.

And if you EVER feel a tingle of any kind, that's the time to take immediate action to determine the cause and safeguard yourself and your family. Remember, you're also saving somebody in the future from being shocked by that same mis-wired outlet you discovered, so don't just walk away. Report the failure to both the RV park and your own camping groups. That's the only way to get those mis-wired pedestals out of the system.

Well put Mike... Thanks for helping out and explaining the dangers of mis-wired or broken pedestal's and extension cords or adapters.

Jim M

 

[jmsokol]

Well put Mike... Thanks for helping out and explaining the dangers of mis-wired or broken pedestal's and extension cords or adapters.

Jim M

Please pass on the links www.noshockzone.org and www.youtube.com/howtoseminars to any other forums you're on. Public education about shore power hookups is the key to keeping everybody safe while enjoying your RVs.

And let me know if there's anything I can do to help. (and no, I won't back up your trailer... ).

 

[scottyb]

I was hooked up to a 50 A service two weekends ago. We were in the reminants of hurricane Isaac and the ground was soaked. I was getting buzzed everytime I reached up for the door handle. i wish i had my multimeter and had tested the recepticle. It was a commercial venue and i assumed the electrical was to code. Growing up around electric fences and such, i just laughed it off. Sounds like it deserved more respect and i will certainly have my meter with me at all times. In fact, i will purchase one of those testers like shown in the video. Thank you Mike for making this information available to everyone.

I purchased a NCVT, like Mike suggested and it lit up like a Christmas tree when I got within 12" of any part of the RV. I am now a believer in his method.

I later had a conference call with my Service Supervisor and HLCS, and the HLCS Rep authorized a thorough investigation and repair, and that I should bring it in immediately. My RV has been at the dealer for 4 weeks. When I arrived, I was told two weeks before they could even look at it. I am not real pleased with the time it has spent there, especially since it was less than two months old and was the result of their own shoddy work. My hot skin was the result of a bad wiring job by the dealer when they replaced my transfer switch, 1 week after I took delivery. Apparently they did not secure the wiring and it rubbed against the side of the enclosure of the transfer switch. I am pretty amazed that they admitted this, since it could have caused serious injury or worse. I am supposed to pick it up tomorrow. I will be getting it ready to head to Chandler, AZ for the Lucas Oil Drag Boat Racing World Finals.

 

[danemayer]

My hot skin was the result of a bad wiring job by the dealer when they replaced my transfer switch, 1 week after I took delivery. Apparently they did not secure the wiring and it rubbed against the side of the enclosure of the transfer switch.

Scottyb,

Glad they got to the bottom of it and owned up to their error. Thanks for circling back to update everyone.