Why Tires fail

[TravelTiger]

tireman9, this last example really helped this simple gal. I appreciate it! I feel better now... I am still happy with my ST tires, they held up well for 25K miles and two years. Though that might seem like a short time, based on the information regarding heat and its significant toll on the tires, I am sure this played a role.

Erika

 

[Grey Ghost]

Hopefully tireman9 you have cooled off by now, but I still think I'm entitled to my opinion right? I might not have all that scientific knowledge about hot and the likes, all have to go on is past experience and self learned knowledge regarding tire blow outs. You can have your opinion and I'm pretty sure I'm entitled to mine. Now I've cooled off also!

Think I will wait a while and cool off before answering.

 

[tireman9]

Hi Tireman9,

Supposedly ST tires have a different sidewall design to deal with stresses unique to trailer towing. Can you comment on what those design differences are and how significant you believe them to be compared to LT tires.

Based on the tires I have looked at I do not see any major difference in the sidewall construction of ST type tires vs LT type tires or for that matter P type tires.
If you read the information on your tires you will see the sidewall consists of one or two ply of polyester or possibly one of steel and the tread has an additional two or three ply of steel. If you look at identical size or two similar size tires you will probably see the materials are identical. If you try and compare a P195/60R14 with an LT275/85R17.5 LR-G there will of course be differences. But I thing that dane is trying to compare similar tires.

So what are the differences? Speed rated LT tires probably have an extra belt layer of Nylon while ST tires do not. The bead (wire that holds the tire on the rim) on a LR-E is probably bigger than the LR-C tire. The tread depth of ST tires is usually lower than that on LT tires.

If the sidewall rubber is thicker on one tire vs another that does not make the tire stronger as the rubber has very low strength when compared to the polyester cord in most tires.

 

[tireman9]

What about just plain inferior product and process? I've traveled these highways for many years and I think I take pretty good care of my equipment. I don't like sitting along side the road with tire problems so I make sure my tires are not overloaded, air pressure is checked before leaving the house and also before leaving each campground, I make sure they are covered (white covers of course) and they are up on either wood slabs or white plastic cutting boards off the ground. I don't travel over 60 to 65 mph, reflexes not what they used to be, and I watch the road so I can avoid hitting things in the road, eyes still pretty good. However, over the many years of traveling these road I've blown many ST tires. I've changed three units over from ST tires to LT tires over the years. Each time after I switched to LT tires I find I'm not sitting along side the road watching everyone else go by. My parents traveled prior to that and Dad just ran plain old car tires on his campers, Firestone, Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone, Dunlap and brands like those, never Power Max, Carleise or tires made especially for campers. He didn't seem to have much trouble either. I'm just saying that maybe ST tire companies should pay a little more attention to how LT tires are made and maybe there wouldn't be as many blow outs as you hear tell about. I'm also saying that tires that are manufactured in other countries may not be held to the same standards as american companies. Go figure!!

What about just plain inferior product and process? I cannot address the attention paid to the manufacturing or design process at thousands of tire plants around the world. Certainly some are better than others. I can say that I have tested, inspected and evaluated some tires made in China and they passed all the same requirements used in the plants of the largest tire manufacturer in the world has for tires sold to Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Fiat, Mazda, Hyundai, Freightliner, Peterbuilt and dozens of other vehicle manufacturers.

All tires sold for highway use in the US are required by law to be certified by the manufacturer to meed all Federal Regulations specified by US-DOT. I do not accept the "cause" of tire failure to be the ZIP-code of the plant that made the tires any more than I believe US workers in Indiana can't make a good RV refrigerator because most of the RV friges that have problems are made in Indiana.
I believe that most ST tires that fail come from China because most ST tires that are made come from China. Remember correlation does not prove causation.
I have a number of posts on "Quality" that might better answer your questions than just hitting the high points in this quick reply. How about if you review what I have to say then if you still have questions please feel free to ask about a topic I have not already covered.

I am glad to read that you use white covers, keep your speed down and have confirmed your individual tire loads so you know you are not part of the 57% that overload their tires.

I am surprised to read that your dad had P type tires on his 29' 5th wheel RV
. To compare the tire performance of a single axle 15' TT from the '60s with a current multi axle 5th wheel is not a valid comparison.

If you have had a number of "blowouts" like this or this do you accept that the most probable reason was significant unde-rinflation due to puncture or valve leak? or do you believe the cause is ZIP code related?


Maybe we could all have fewer failures due to any quality related issues if we refused to buy tires that did not have a warranty at least as long as the warranty we accept on our multi-thousand dollar RVs.

 

[poosu]

ST tires are only rated to 65 MPH? I wonder why the guy who went over all the stuff on our trailer when we bought it new never mentioned that. His spiel was overwhelming but neither my wife of I remember anything about speed. Seems like safety items that newbies have no way of knowing should be a priority.

 

[tireman9]

ST tires are only rated to 65 MPH? I wonder why the guy who went over all the stuff on our trailer when we bought it new never mentioned that. His spiel was overwhelming but neither my wife of I remember anything about speed. Seems like safety items that newbies have no way of knowing should be a priority.

I do not think the "salespeople" want to give the owner any info that might imply there are any downsides or special responsibilities to owning a TT. That might kill the sale.
Don't forget with the short warranty on most RVs there is little chance you will be back to the dealer so failing to build customer loyalty doesn't seem to be very important for a good number of dealers/salespeople.

In the last month I ran into three "newnies"
One was sent out with all four tires 20% low (i.e. officially flat) and no instruction on how to properly set up the awning arms.

Second had no idea how to connect the electric and didn't know the 50 amp was different than 30 amp so went and spent money for a converter he didn't need and no idea what the tire inflation was supposed to be.

The other was given zero instructions on even how to extend the awning, No information on the need to check tire inflation.

I really do not think these three owners are the exception.

 

[kowAlski631]

We got lucky today. A guy told us we had a tire problem as we were driving. The tire monitor gave no indication. When we pulled into the rest area just ahead of us, there was a softball sized bulge on the tire which blew out as we were parked, thank goodness. Tire - a TowMax. We don't overload, we don't run fast, we check tires before we head out each time we move the trailer. Be safe out there, folks.

Martha

 

[donr827]

We got lucky today. A guy told us we had a tire problem as we were driving. The tire monitor gave no indication. When we pulled into the rest area just ahead of us, there was a softball sized bulge on the tire which blew out as we were parked, thank goodness. Tire - a TowMax. We don't overload, we don't run fast, we check tires before we head out each time we move the trailer. Be safe out there, folks.

Martha

We had the same thing happen on our first TT around 10 yrs ago. I pulled into a cg in Branson. When I got out of the truck to register I noticed a small bubble on the side of the tire. When I came back out from the office the bubble was getting larger. Pulled into our site and made sure the bubble would not do any damage to the trailer. Sat on the picnic table with the camper next to ours and watched the tire until in blew. Goodyear replaced the tire under warranty, Guess I got lucky.
Don

 

[kowAlski631]

We both got lucky, Don. We had another hour of travel ahead of us - in Kansas City traffic which is not a walk in the park. We're just so grateful to the Good Samaritan who kept us from harm to everyone.

Martha

 

[TravelTiger]

Yes, it doesn't seem to matter how careful you think you are. It's not IF you'll have to deal with tire issues, but WHEN.

Looking into replacing them all with something better? After reading tireman9's description of how heat degrades the tire faster, it's probably smart to pick a higher rated tire than was originally spec'd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[JohnD]

I had a flat on my trailer while it was at the dealership getting warranty repairs back in July.

It had already been there two weeks when they told me it had a flat tire when I brought it in, yet when I checked on the status of the trailer after one week, they never mentioned it!

Somehow just sitting there on their lot it picked up a huge screw (imagine that!).

They put a plug in it and charged me for the repair, but when I asked them if the repair was a good one (as we were getting ready to go on a multi-state trip), they hemmed and hawwed, which made me nervous.

I took it to a tire shop after I picked it up from the dealership and the tire shop told me that chances are I would have had a flat on the road if I had made the trip with the tire in the shape it was in.

All I can say is "Wow!"

 

[donr827]

There is no way of proving it but I bet it was picked up while being moved around the dealers lot. Happened to me once. A plug is not sufficient in my opinion. A good tire shop will put a patch of sufficient size on the inside of the tire,
Don

 

[kowAlski631]

We have not planned to change tire size, but are changing the manufacturer. Not agreeing with all of tireman's theories, but have been reading & discussing them.

Everyone just needs to know that tires do fail no matter the size, manufacturer, or weather conditions. Your monitor will not alert you of impending emergency as a bubble on the sidewall does not cause loss of pressure. It's not until the bubble bursts & the tire begins to shred that the monitor alarms. Just be vigilant, folks.

 

[dave10a]

What we need is less theory and more practical real world testing and experience. I can through a lot of calculus around to prove most theoretical discussions, but it is when real world testing and monitoring is done that the theory condenses into understanding. I can even prove that statistically a pitched baseball can hover home plate, but I dare some one to actually demonstrate it

 

[wdk450]

Your monitor will not alert you of impending emergency as a bubble on the sidewall does not cause loss of pressure. It's not until the bubble bursts & the tire begins to shred that the monitor alarms. Just be vigilant, folks.

I hope this doesn't mean that you don't believe in TPMS systems. Yes, it probably won't pick up the sidewall bubble problem, but it would have picked up the more common slow leak from a screw puncture. I had a tire sidewall rubbing against and shredding on a shock absorber mount, and the TPMS alarmed low pressure before the tire blew. In fact, I stopped, proceeded slowly to a pulloff, and the tire didn't blow before it was changed.
I had a bubble with one of my original tires, another motorist notified me, and I have upgraded to better tires. That was before I had a TPMS system.

 

[kowAlski631]

Didn't say that. We have & use our monitoring system. All I was warning about is the fact that you need to be vigilant in visually inspecting your tires & not relying solely on an alarm system. Until there is a loss of pressure within the tire, an alarm will not sound. With a sidewall bubble of the type we experienced, pressure was not lost until the bubble burst.

 

[wdk450]

Didn't say that. We have & use our monitoring system. All I was warning about is the fact that you need to be vigilant in visually inspecting your tires & not relying solely on an alarm system. Until there is a loss of pressure within the tire, an alarm will not sound. With a sidewall bubble of the type we experienced, pressure was not lost until the bubble burst.

Paul:
You and I agree completely on this.

 

[kowAlski631]

People can rely too much on bells & alarms & forget to do the basics. We are also in the habit of looking at other's tires while driving for any problem. Twice we've had other drivers warn us about issues, so we try to return the favors.

 

[wdk450]

People can rely too much on bells & alarms & forget to do the basics. We are also in the habit of looking at other's tires while driving for any problem. Twice we've had other drivers warn us about issues, so we try to return the favors.

A couple of years ago I had a motorcyclist in rural, coastal, Washington State pull up next to me and tell me about a bubble in one of my trailer tire sidewalls. I immediately pulled into a parking lot and called road service to change the tire. It took about 40 minutes for road service to arrive, and during that time, just sitting there, the bubble popped and blew out the tire. That motorcyclist probably saved me from a nasty, on-road, incident.

 

[JohnD]

On our way back from South Dakota back in July, we misjudged the distance between towns out in middle of nowhere in Nebraska.

We ran out of gas about 17 miles short of the next town!

Anyway . . . thanks to having the Good Sam's Roadside Assistance Program, they came out and saved our @$$ by delivering 5 gallons of gas to us.

Unfortunately, however, unbeknownst to us they brought us flex fuel (ie. - cheaper per gallon than regular gas), which all but almost destroyed the engine in my Dodge Ram 1500 Ram Magnum V8 engine, but it did get us to the next town!

Here is a shot where we had lunch while waiting for the bad gas to be delivered . . .

Ironically, by running out of gas north of Alliance, Nebraska, it seems that by having that 2-hour delay that we ended up missing out on a very bad hail storm in northeast Colorado that day that we would have had to drive through that would have most likely caused bad damage to our brand new 2013 Trail Runner trailer!!