Wintering in a Sundance...

[Bighurt]

First if this is the wrong thread I apologize, I contemplated the full time forum but seeing as I need to do more than full time I felt modification was a better option.

Little background for those of you unaware, the city of Minot, ND was devastated by a flood of unseen proportions. Our home is a total loss, the family is safe as are much of our possessions. However we still can't return home as there is still 4'+ of water on the property. Ours is one of 4000 homes damaged by the flood and one of 1250 homes that received between 6' and 10' of water on the main floor. We have a single story home. Regardless the city of Minot hasn't a clue what it's going to do, as a contractor I've been inquiring weekly and the only answer I get is we are working on it.

Now it's Jul 8 which for most people means middle of summer, in ND however it means there is less than 90 days until we have snow on the ground. Now as a general contractor I can build a new home, however 90 days isn't a lot of time. Compiled with we haven't done demo yet or gathered appropriate permits to re-build. So I'm stuck figuring out how to keep my family of 5 soon to be 6 warm in the winter in our Sundance 3300RLB. I'm hoping that by mid Aug the city has it's act together.

Now a lot of people are probably saying move, which I would love to do, except for the fact I'm paying for a home that is completely destroyed and will have to do so for the next 22 years...can't sell the foundation and dirt for what I owe.

I can't even buy land to build a new home as you need 50% down on a land only loan and I can't qualify for a construction loan with my outstanding mortgage.

So I'm stuck...

Anybody have advice on modifying and setting my unit up to survive temperatures down to -40 degrees F? Any other advice is also appreciated.

 

[danemayer]

Jeremy, sorry you're faced with this situation. Here are some things we learned in Colorado last January. Temps down to -20 and -30 once.

Heating: you'll need lots of propane - get a large external hookup. You probably also want supplemental heaters. But these can draw a lot of current, so you might want to install 1 or 2 dedicated 20 amp outlets each on its own circuit breaker.

Fresh water plumbing: very difficult to keep water running below -15. Obviously you need a heated hose to bring water in from a heated riser. Then you'll have to have some heat tape and a light to keep it from freezing inside the UDC. You'll have to do something to keep the water lines in the underbelly warm. May have to put heat tape on them too. Whatever heated air the furnace pumps into the underbelly won't be enough below -15.
A 100 watt "heat lamp" in the basement, near the water pump and other plumbing will help. Take care in the mounting. Clamp-on fixtures can fall down, causing a fire hazard.

Sewer: 3" pvc pipe for a sewer line, wrapped with heating tape and insulation. You may need heat tape on the exposed sewer pipes, but keep in mind that they'll be pretty empty most of the time. You don't want to cause damage so look at the heat tape specs and instructions.

The gray and black valves will freeze at sub-zero temps. I'm not sure how to keep these warm below -15, except maybe by pumping supplemental hot air into the underbelly. A skirt will help, but at -30 or -40 it may still be a problem. There is a heating pad type of product for the valves, but I'm not sure how well it works.

Water tanks: install tank heating pads. Insulate the underbelly. Skirt will help.

Frost on the bedroom wall: You'll need to keep an air space between the mattress and bedroom wall. Frost will build up at night and melt during the day. You don't want mildew or similar problems.

Good luck.

 

[Boca_Shuffles]

Will you be on your own property or in a campground?
Can you build a temporary pole barn around the whole trailer?

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

Bighurt, Sorry to hear of your situation. The post by danemayer was pretty thorough. If you're in a situation where you have ample power, you'll need it for the extra electrical heating devices.
I would also suggest fitting some styrofoam sheeting to the side walls and floors of the slide rooms. You can use the same type material at the head of the bed. As Dan mentioned, condensation will occur there. It has to do with your body heat being concentrated in that area.

I'm assuming you don't have dual pane windows. You'll need something on the inside like that 3M window film.

Skirting for sure. Good Luck. One question though, is there any short term rental property available?

 

[jbeletti]

Jeremy,

Sorry to hear about the disaster that has befallen your family. With temps down to -40f, I would not want to RV in that no matter what. If you are determined to do so, you are getting good feedback here from Dan and Tom and soon, others.

If I had to do it, I would also skirt the RV from the ground to the bottom of the j-wrap. There are various materials that you can do this with. If you end up using 2" pink or blue foam, consider taking that above the j-wrap to the fiberglass.

Maybe build out a wall around the overhang area under the pin box for a couple of reasons. Storage and more wind/cold shielding.

I've always wanted to try this one, I know Lefty is at some stage of installation with his, but consider installing electric floor heating under the carpet in the slide rooms and maybe in the entire bedroom. I don't know anything about this type of heating, it's suitability or safety, so do you own research on it - but you will want to do something to insulate the slide floors. Maybe temporarily affix 2" of blue or pink foam to the slide room floors from the outside.

Not related to warmth, but consider building a set of steps with a landing at the top so you don't have to use the RV steps daily, for that many people over the winter. Plus, cold slick metal steps are no fun. Close on the space under the steps for even more outdoor storage.

If you have to do this, we wish you all the best. And consider keeping this thread going with your preparations progress as well as your feedback as you live in it. Other Heartlanders may have more great ideas as you go through this and you just may inspire others on their projects.

Jim

 

[Bighurt]

Thanks for all the replies, many I had thought of, but others not. I was definitely going to skirt the unit with 2x4 or 6 walls insulated and sheeted. I hadn't thought of wrapping the slides but that's a good idea.

Obviously this isn't my first choice but unlike the army corp of engineers that caused the disaster, I like to plan ahead.

If I had my choice I'd just buy land to build a new home and start with my shop and park the unit in the shop and live in it. However my wallet is empty my job is low pay, and there isn't available land within 50 miles.

There also aren't any available rentals, in fact those that were before the flood rose their prices two bedroom homes and apartments that weren't locked into a lease are now going for $3000 - $3500 a month. Price gouging landlords! That's more than double the pre-flood prices.

I'm hoping I can get my inlaws place in living condition before January but everytime we begin to pick ourselves up the city cuts us down again. It's been mandated that all water damaged homes 4000+ are required to have their electrical repaired/replaced by a electrical contractor. That's a lot of work for a couple dozen companies. The electrical company is currently pulling all meters if water entered the home regardless if the panel was damaged or not.

And yes the unit would be parked on private property.

 

[jmgratz]

I don't want to be a smart a.. but here is a thought to consider. Just walk away and let the mortgage company have the property. Move to a more livable location for the winter and then start over. Rent a place in ND after you walk away. The was I look at it is if it flooded once it will again someday and I would not want something like that to happen a second time. Bet the mortgage company would work with you as many are in the same situation. I think the idea of the storage barn (you can find them reasonably priced in many magazines and on the internet) is a great idea. You could pull the RV in the barn and even make a temporary living space there until you rebuild. FEMA will have grants and low interest loans for yall I betcha. One other option not mentioned is to trade in the Sundance and get a new all season Landmark with the POLAR Bear package Good luck and God Bless.

 

[Bighurt]

Already being considered Jim. However two issues still in place no rentals no land, and the waiting list for base housing is 6 months.

My loan is backed with the VA so we are working that right now considering the president declared it a major disaster.

I don't think I can afford the payments on a Landmark...LOL

 

[Bighurt]

Well we have been living in the Sundance since 1 Jun, and it's starting to get cold. Dropping into the mid thirties at night, going to have to start doing some of Dan's recommendations.

 

[caissiel]

I lived alone in an RV for a winter and it was with very good planning. Propane tank will last about 5 days. I use my water tank and filled it when it was above freezing for the hose not to freeze. Dumped on warmer days also. Skirting is a must and that way your RV will be as a mobile home. I also set an electic heater on low and was able to put some heat there to. I was cosy all winter. And don't forget to introduce some fresh air in the unit, you'll need oxygen as the trailer is small.

 

[Rmcgrath53]

I wintered last winter in KY. It got down to -4 a couple times. I bought 1/2 inch black tary fiber board at home depot for 7 bucks a sheet. I scurted the whole camper. If you have a couple electric heaters you could have them going.... DO Not Put Straw under or around your camper!!! I had heat tape and never lost my water. I also bought blanket foil insulation and zipped tied the sewer line with insulation.. I put the scurting tight and stuffed insulation were ever there was a gap at stairs and such. I worked the midnite shift at the VA hospital in lexington.while I was there I would turn the heat down to 60 and have electric heaters going whil;e I was at work. I have heard of guys using a propane torpedo heater under the trailer if the portable heaters wont work. We use them in construction at the winter time. the park also rented me 2 100 lb propane tanks . As long as you keep the heat up in the unit and have heaters under the trailer you should be able to do it. On second thought I would only use the torpedo heates if I froze up because of the fumes and carbon mooxide

 

[Bighurt]

Our goal isn't o winter in it yet...we may still drive it to CA in Nov so skirting is out till then. Upon return if we are still waiting on FEMA trailer, than I'll be strongly considering building a pole barn for the entire trailer. Our homes current status. Started as a foundation little less than 2 weeks ago. Slow progress but working mostly by myself.

 

[odie]

I live in Rochester, MN, so I am familiar with the temps!! I am of no help. But good luck and praying for you and your family. You got some big shoulders and you look like you are doing a great job!!!

 

[Bighurt]

Well FEMA finally came through and we are now moving into a unit this week, just in time as we depart next week for CA. However we will not be traveling in the Sundance as I have a truck in KS to pick-up and the wife won't drive the rig that far alone, it what will most likely be snow.

On a side note the house is coming along hopefully we will be putting roof trusses up this weekend.

 

[Ratherbecamping]

Hi All,
We don"t live in our trailer but spend 40 to 45 nights winter camping between October and March here in the foothills of the Rockies in Canada. We are out there until it hits -25 deg. C ( -13 deg. F) and that's only because we don't run the furnace all night and we wake up to -8 to 10 deg. C (14 deg. F).

I am looking for some really good winter skirting with an R value that will allow us to hopefully camp in even colder temperatures. I've seen a company called Kimber Creations here in Alberta, they have a web site and claim a R7 value skirt that they supposedly custom fit to your RV. Problem is they haven't replied to my inquiry. Are there any other companies out there with a simular product that you can recomend?


Just got back yesterday from a 4 day stint and had our first snowfall (3") and looking forward to somemore winter camping soon.

 

[Urban350]

There are these 2 that I can find http://www.canvasmart.com/RV-Skirts-and-Awnings/ and I think RV Lifestyles was advertising them.

 

[Ratherbecamping]

Thanks guys, I will check that out as well. Kimber did get back to us and quoted us $4,172. After discussing further they recommended adding slide out insulation as well. this brought the quote up to $5k. Pretty steep but I think we'll go for it. That's installed on site where out trailer is permanently parked west of Water Valley Alberta and they are near Edmonton I believe so it probably includes his travel time as well.


On a different note, I see you'r running 300W solar panels into 4 6V batteries, I've only got a 130W panel into the stock 2 6V batteries. Last winter my panel got covered in snow while we we're away for a few weeks and froze both batteries. Cost us $440 to replace but these are wet batteries. Are you using gel batteries or is it that the 300W panel(s) are keeping them from freezing? I'm interested in you're power plant as I'm going to do the same. We're thinking of going up today ro pull our batteries out as the weathers tuning cold next weekend.

 

[Urban350]

On a different note, I see you'r running 300W solar panels into 4 6V batteries, I've only got a 130W panel into the stock 2 6V batteries. Last winter my panel got covered in snow while we we're away for a few weeks and froze both batteries. Cost us $440 to replace but these are wet batteries. Are you using gel batteries or is it that the 300W panel(s) are keeping them from freezing? I'm interested in you're power plant as I'm going to do the same. We're thinking of going up today ro pull our batteries out as the weathers tuning cold next weekend.

Replied by PM