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212Pilot
12-08-2016, 11:44 AM
We have a 2017 Cyclone 3800 that we got new in September. We ordered it with the Canadian Artic Package and Dual Pane Widows. Twice now the plumbing has frozen to the kitchen faucet and back bathroom when the temperature got down to +18. The Yeti switch in the control panel and the mystery red switch under the control panel were both on and the furnace was working well the keep things very warm. We also added a ceramic heater to the garage area to keep that area moderately warm. I insulated the hot and cold drain tubes and the low point drain tube. I have read the Heartland Owners User Manual about Winter use of the water system and read all the previous posts on the yeti package/winter use. The lack of factory documentation is very frustrating. All the forum opinions about what the Yeti/Arctic package is or does leads me to believe the Canadian Arctic Package is two lighted switches that cost $900 to give you false hope you can use your RV in the cold weather.

What is the best way to Thaw Frozen Pipes and prevent freeze up in the future? The first time it happened we drove into +40 temps, not an option this time.

danemayer
12-08-2016, 12:08 PM
Hi 212Pilot,

The Canadian Arctic or Yeti Package provides holding tank heat pads and heat tape/insulation on the underbelly portion of the fresh water feed line between fresh tank and pump. It does not protect other water lines from freezing. With the kitchen water lines running through the underbelly, you're dependent on heat from the furnace. The underbelly is heated by a 2" duct that just barely goes into the underbelly. In order for it to be effective, you have to run the furnace with the thermostat set high enough that the furnace actually runs. If you're also running space heaters or a fireplace, the furnace will run less often and you'll have less heat in the underbelly.

If you've been running the furnace with thermostat set at 68-72 (F), and your kitchen line froze at 18 (F) outside temp, you may have a problem with the 2" duct either having come loose from the furnace, or perhaps not being placed well in the underbelly.

To help keep the kitchen lines from freezing and to help defrost, open the cabinet(s) where the water lines come into the living area. That'll let some of the heat from inside protect the area immediately below. If the line doesn't thaw by itself during the day, you may have to cut the coroplast (on 3 sides of a rectangle) to access the Pex lines. A hairdryer will thaw them out pretty quickly.

Frozen water lines at 18 (F) suggest you have a problem with lack of heat, too much air getting into the underbelly, or poor insulation in the underbelly. You'll probably need to investigate further.

If you're going to open the coroplast, you might consider putting heat tape and insulation on the kitchen lines. The hard part is working with the coroplast.

TravelTiger
12-08-2016, 12:51 PM
I remember our first ski trip with our ElkRidge. We had wrapped the low point drains, it did not have a yeti package. We had frozen lines to the kitchen faucet.

After that, since we planned to continue using our rig for skiing, we added heat pad to the fresh tank, heat pads to the fresh water line from the tank to pump, added heat pads to the lines to the sink, removed the low point drains (on the kitchen lines), shortened the fresh tank drain line and moved the cut-off so it's up in the underbelly, and made a flexible discharge that we could seal up inside the belly.

We also then wrapped all the lines with thin foam insulation wrap or the foam wrap you buy in 8ft sections at hardware stores. We also redirected our basement heat vent to point at the area where tank valves were located.

We added a reflector lamp behind the basement wall, to "heat" the pump and other water lines there.

We also put some remote temp sensors in strategic places in the underbelly so we could monitor temps.

All of this made our following trips for skiing, even in the teens, freeze free.

When we fulltimed a year and a half in it in Texas, we had no issues, either, but we didn't have very harsh winters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rxbristol
12-08-2016, 06:23 PM
I had pipes freeze the first year and I did three things that solved the problem.

1. The 2 inches hose coming off the heater was jammed against another hose and not putting enough heat in the underbelly so I repositioned it.
2. Sealed/taped/caulked all holes and openings in the frame leading to the underbelly. If you've not done this yet, you'll be surprised on how open that area is to allow heat out.
3. I did use a heat lamp near the UDC, but found this unnecessary unless it gets below 15 degrees.

Lynn1130
12-08-2016, 06:34 PM
Do you have low point drains or have they eliminated those in the newer models?

Oregon_Camper
12-08-2016, 08:52 PM
Do you have low point drains or have they eliminated those in the newer models?


I was looking for mine just the other day and couldn't find them. Spent about 5 mins looking on both sides...behind wheels...etc. ????

danemayer
12-08-2016, 09:46 PM
I was looking for mine just the other day and couldn't find them. Spent about 5 mins looking on both sides...behind wheels...etc. ????
Your Bighorn doesn't have low point drains. Just a fresh tank drain and possibly an overflow drain from washer prep.

Oregon_Camper
12-08-2016, 10:12 PM
Your Bighorn doesn't have low point drains. Just a fresh tank drain and possibly an overflow drain from washer prep.


Well, at least I didn't miss it before our freezing weather came in this week. Probably looked funny with me crawling all around the underside of the trailer....3 times everywhere looking for those darn low point drains. :p

As always....thanks for the great info Dan. :)

212Pilot
12-08-2016, 11:56 PM
Do you have low point drains or have they eliminated those in the newer models?

We do have hot and cold drains near the front steps and a low point drain on the opposite side under the UDC. I have insulated mine for now.

212Pilot
12-09-2016, 12:18 AM
Thanks for all the great info and suggestions.

What is the best way to check the 2" duct to insure it is positioned correctly in the underbelly? Can that be checked from the pass through compartment or do I have to open up the coroplast?

BTW our pipes thawed when we move the RV to a different campsite today. It was like magic one minute everything was Frozen then we move 100' and that Let it Go.

LBR
12-09-2016, 02:58 AM
We do have hot and cold drains near the front steps and a low point drain on the opposite side under the UDC. I have insulated mine for now.
Same thing on our late model 2017 CY...hot and cold low point drains and also a fresh water drain.

danemayer
12-09-2016, 07:50 AM
We do have hot and cold drains near the front steps and a low point drain on the opposite side under the UDC. I have insulated mine for now.

The problem with low-point drains is that the valve is exposed to outside air and there is water above the valve also exposed to outside air. As it freezes, ice wicks up into the tee, blocking the water line. Some people have removed the low-point drains altogether (which Heartland did on Landmark, Bighorn, and Big Country). Others have tucked the drain up above the coroplast. Others have put heat tape on the exposed areas.



What is the best way to check the 2" duct to insure it is positioned correctly in the underbelly? Can that be checked from the pass through compartment or do I have to open up the coroplast?

You'll have to open up the coroplast. If you have a drop frame front section, you may be able to just drop the corner by removing 3 or 4 mounting screws on each side of the corner. You may find the 2" duct ends in the front drop frame area and needs to be positioned or extended into the rear section to protect the kitchen lines. If you're extending it, you might add a PVC tee fitting so that both sections get warm air. If you do that, check the airflow before closing the coroplast.

Btw, you'll find that using an impact wrench on the coroplast mounting screws works way better than a ratchet/socket.

212Pilot
12-16-2016, 04:18 PM
Last Saturday in freezing rain, snow, and wind, I opened up the coroplast to have a look. The only two inch duct I found went from the furnace thru the underbelly then attached to the round vent inside the garage. No hot air discharge into the underbelly. While I had it opened up I added heat tape/cable and foam insulation to the waterlines going to the kitchen and rear bathroom. I hope this works because I don't want to wrestle that monster again until the weather or location is dry, calm, and warm. Thanks again for all the great info.

Bones
12-16-2016, 07:59 PM
Last Saturday in freezing rain, snow, and wind, I opened up the coroplast to have a look. The only two inch duct I found went from the furnace thru the underbelly then attached to the round vent inside the garage. No hot air discharge into the underbelly. While I had it opened up I added heat tape/cable and foam insulation to the waterlines going to the kitchen and rear bathroom. I hope this works because I don't want to wrestle that monster again until the weather or location is dry, calm, and warm. Thanks again for all the great info.

I would agree with you. I have yet to find any type of heat duct going to the under belly. I was thinking of running a duct down there but I haven't camped in really really cold weather yet. I did find holes though going to the underbelly. :)

danemayer
12-16-2016, 08:32 PM
Last Saturday in freezing rain, snow, and wind, I opened up the coroplast to have a look. The only two inch duct I found went from the furnace thru the underbelly then attached to the round vent inside the garage. No hot air discharge into the underbelly. While I had it opened up I added heat tape/cable and foam insulation to the waterlines going to the kitchen and rear bathroom. I hope this works because I don't want to wrestle that monster again until the weather or location is dry, calm, and warm. Thanks again for all the great info.
Sounds like you have a warranty issue. I believe all the floor ducts are 4". The 2" should terminate somewhere in the underbelly. Next time you're at the dealer for warranty service, you should ask for this to be corrected. And you might want to call Heartland Customer Service at 877-262-8032 / 574-262-8030. Have your VIN # ready. Ask them to confirm how it's supposed to be and note it on your VIN record that there's a problem.