Wire gauge size for 50 amp outlet

Am sorry in advance if this is in wrong topic area.

I want to install a 50 amp outlet on outside of garage wall for the RV. Distance from breaker panel/box to outlet location is approx 16'. Know I'll need a 50A dbl breaker and will have to remove the elect drier breaker so that space can be used (no more room for dbl breakers in box). So my question is, what gauge wire do I need given the length of run? Does it come all in 1 casing or all individual wires? Copper or alum? I will not attempt to do this as I'm not that good w/ electrical especially when it comes to 220v, so probly have an electrician do it, just want to make sure he sells me something I don't need.

If you will run in conduit you'll want to use 6gauge stranded thhn. If no conduit I would use 6gauge UF. Thhn is individual wires that would need run in conduit, most likely grey pvc ent. UF is underground cable all wires in a single protective sheath.

If you use an electrician make sure he runs 4 wires. Two hot, a neutral, AND a ground.

You may have seen this before.
View attachment 50-amp Service.pdf

When we ran ours (about 35'), we used std. Romex, 6/3 with ground. Our 50 amp plug & box is located on the garage wall near the garage door, so it will always be dry, or we might have gone a different route.

Use the conduit and 4 #6 THHN Copper wires, cheapest and best way to go, great protection for wire.
UF (underground) is very expensive, and not approved for open work, you would need USE cable (service entrance) cable for open work.
Use 1 Black, 1Red, 1 White 1 Green # 6 THHN Copper Wire.
I personally have never been a fan of Aluminum Conductors, seen too many issues over the years with improper installation, which can result in fires.
You may be able to use a Piggy Back Breaker in your panel, which would give you your 50Amp for your RV and also keep your 30Amp Dryer Breaker.
This gives you 2 double pole breakers for 2 different uses in 1 double pole panel space.
What you are looking for is a 50 Double Pole and 30 Double Pole Piggy Back Breaker.
Also as a note, not all panels will accept a Piggy Back Breaker, depends on panel manufacturer.
A good Electrician will know what to buy for your panel.
I hope this information helps you out.

Hockster

AWESOME info gang!! TY!

Don't know about general electrical code but here in Manhattan KS there was a requirement that there be an exterior cutoff and that it could not be run from the interior panel. Electrician told me that it was because the fire department and/or electric company had to have a way to neutralize it in case of a fire or such. Made sense and didn't add much to the bill.

The ground wire needs only to be #10 copper per the NEC (National Electrical Code).

ksucats said:

Don't know about general electrical code but here in Manhattan KS there was a requirement that there be an exterior cutoff and that it could not be run from the interior panel. Electrician told me that it was because the fire department and/or electric company had to have a way to neutralize it in case of a fire or such. Made sense and didn't add much to the bill.

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That makes no sense to me. I understand the cutoff but typically the breaker panel is inside, so were would you pull power from?

They pulled the power from the meter box after the meter - same junction that the inside panel comes from. Local electrical utility had to come in after installation to check it and then reseal the meter box. So, basically I have two cutoffs outside my home now - the one from the meter that goes to my interior distribution panel, and then a much smaller one that goes to my 50 amp RV terminal. As I said, I'm no electrical expert - been zapped too many times just plugging and unplugging stuff - sure don't want to mess with the higher stuff , but I've looked at two other fellow RVers who have outside power points and it appeared that they were also wired the same. Could very well be something local - I don't know.

Huh, Ive never seen it done that way.

MP_CS said:

Huh, Ive never seen it done that way.

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I have seen it done like that when there is no room remaining in the existing breaker box. In the long run I think it is a lot cheaper than buying a larger box and rewiring it if you are hiring it done by an electrician.

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ksucats said:

Don't know about general electrical code but here in Manhattan KS there was a requirement that there be an exterior cutoff and that it could not be run from the interior panel. Electrician told me that it was because the fire department and/or electric company had to have a way to neutralize it in case of a fire or such. Made sense and didn't add much to the bill.

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Yeah the code here in San Angelo, TX has the same requirement. I used to work with a couple of volunteer firemen and they said they never screwed with that, they just pulled the meter. I don't know either way, but I know all the breakers were inside in our old house.

Two weeks ago, I added another 50 amp RV outlet on the outside of my garage wall so a friend who was staying with us could charge his Tesla and in case we ever have 3 RVs in the driveway at once

I ran 18 feet of 6-3 w/ ground (NMB), used a 2-pole 50 amp breaker in my panel and used an outdoor rated box with pre-installed 50 amp RV receptacle.

jbeletti said:

Two weeks ago, I added another 50 amp RV outlet on the outside of my garage wall so a friend who was staying with us could charge his Tesla and in case we ever have 3 RVs in the driveway at once

I ran 18 feet of 6-3 w/ ground (NMB), used a 2-pole 50 amp breaker in my panel and used an outdoor rated box with pre-installed 50 amp RV receptacle.

View attachment 54210 View attachment 54211View attachment 54212

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Thats how I've always hooked them up.

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pegmikef said:

I have seen it done like that when there is no room remaining in the existing breaker box. In the long run I think it is a lot cheaper than buying a larger box and rewiring it if you are hiring it done by an electrician.

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Yeah the code here in San Angelo, TX has the same requirement. I used to work with a couple of volunteer firemen and they said they never screwed with that, they just pulled the meter. I don't know either way, but I know all the breakers were inside in our old house.

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Funny Im a 16yr veteran volunteer fireman and past asst chief and I've never nor have i told any of the men to ever pull the meter. Maybe its a city thing. I've never had any complications or delays in fighting a fire waiting for the power company to come. I guess every state does things a bit different.

MP_CS said:

Funny Im a 16yr veteran volunteer fireman and past asst chief and I've never nor have i told any of the men to ever pull the meter. Maybe its a city thing. I've never had any complications or delays in fighting a fire waiting for the power company to come. I guess every state does things a bit different.

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What does "pulling the meter" really do?

Potential arc flash when you do it
Only de-energerizes the interior wiring to the panel
Leaves two big energerized lugs exposed in the meter pan

And it is never the power company that cuts the power like this, so it is a non professional for the most part playing with the odds.

Been doing fire for 36+ years now, not a big city, but we are the considered the 5th largest municipality in New Jersey.
In the hundreds of fires we have been too, if flipping the breakers off was not sufficient for the job, the power company was called to cut the power at the pole.

Have an electrician coming Wed to scope things out. Will let ya know what he says or does.