Determining loaded 5th wheel pin weight

I'm aware that the Bighorn website identifies the dry and GVWR of the 5th wheel trailers, and it also identifies the dry pin weight. I'm told the dry weights don't really mean alot, because one is to be concerned with "loaded"weights. Therefore I would like to know what percentage does Heartland work with in order to determine the GVWR pin weight. Is it something like 10%, 15%, or 20%. I have a good idea on the amount of weight I'll be adding to the dry unloaded weight, and would like to calculate what my loaded pin weight might be. Should I be multiplying the dry pin weight by X%, or multiplying my estimated loaded weight by X%.:angel::angel: I'm considering buying a Bighorn 5th wheel, but would like to ensure that I'm not going to severely overloading my truck.

Please advise.

Regards,

David

David,

What a tricky question to answer. The typical 5th wheel manufacturer sets the pin weights between 15-25%. The tricky part of this is how you are loading your unit? The pin weights loaded could vary significantly based on how you load your vehicle.

David, I am not from the factory, but I think that this question should be asked of the people that are towing.
Pin weights are like Kevin said, they vary significantly based on how you load it.
I would say that most people have a pin weight around 3,000#. That is a number based on my pin weight and others I have talked to.
Some full timers are higher. They carry more stuff.
Mine is 2,950. There is no real way to know what it will be till you load it and weigh it.

Peace
Dae

While at the factory a few weeks ago I pressed this issue and was not really given an answer that made me feel warm and fuzzy. I was assured that the "dry weights" as published are very accurate. I realize these weights do not include battery, propane, or my contents, or any additional options ordered. None of the options I ordered will add to the pin weight more than just a couple pounds.

I weigh everything that goes into my basement storage and front bedroom. The rest of the items are either over the axles or in the rear. So in my case the answer "there is no way to know" is not valid because, for me, the only wildcard is the real delivered dry weight.

I will be weighing my rig immediately upon leaving the Elkhart area, with full battery and propane next week. If the weights are not close to what are published plus the battery/propane, Heartland is going to have one very upset customer to deal with! I made my decision in large part based on pin weight and am really pushing the limits of my TV, but I'll be OK as long as Heartland is publishing accurate weights.

Our weights are based on random units pulled off line and actually weighed.

"I weigh everything that goes into my basement storage and front bedroom. The rest of the items are either over the axles or in the rear. So in my case the answer "there is no way to know" is not valid because, for me, the only wildcard is the real delivered dry weight."


Based on this comment I have to disagree with what you said. If you add more or less weight to the rear of your unit behind or at the rear axel it will change the pin weight (even when you weighed your items that went into the front). So to answer your statement it is very difficult to know for sure what your pin weight will be while loaded.

"Based on this comment I have to disagree with what you said. If you add more or less weight to the rear of your unit behind or at the rear axel it will change the pin weight (even when you weighed your items that went into the front). So to answer your statement it is very difficult to know for sure what your pin weight will be while loaded."

Kevin, you are of course absolutely correct. I should have clarified that, since I know the weight of any items placed forward of the axles, I know what my maximum loaded pin weight will be for a given trip. Anything stored rear of the axles should theoretically decrease pin weight, but that's just a bonus in my mind.

Reading my original comments I see they are somewhat antagonistic, which was not my intent. Since ordering my unit, I've been doing a LOT of reading on this forum and others, and am growing concerned with the common belief that one's pin weight will usually be around 20-25% of the GVWR of the trailer, regardless of what the published dry weight is. So on a 16k GVWR Big Horn I'm looking at between 3200lb and 4000lb of pin weight... which scares me to death. Upgrading my truck is not an option. As long as Heartland is directionally correct on their pin weight figures I'll be just fine. I typically have no more than 300lbs loaded forward of the axles. Although with that huge basement storage, it's goiing to be very tough to refrain from adding more stuff! =0

I guess I'm similar to Jeff. I know the weights of what I put in the fiver. I would like to order a unit, but, I like to see what I'm getting before I pay for it. Therefore we'll most likely buy a unit off a dealers lot. That way I can weigh the unit and eventhough it will be an unloaded weight I will be sure I will not severely exceed my trucks pin wt capability and GCVWR.

Thank you for the input to my question, as the responses were helpful.

Thank you

David

Jeff, I hate to hijack Davids thread. If I read your sig correctly. Your pulling a 3670 with a 2500HD. You might want to check your GCVW rating on your truck. It's 22K. I'm not the weight police but you have to be way over your limit with that BH. The 3670 has a 16K max loaded weight. Your truck probably weighs in at about 7K+ I would suggest that you check your local laws on weights. I know what would happen in Calif. if I were pulled over and checked. Just a word to the wise. Bob

I don't mean to drag this pin weight issue out, but over the last few days I've had conversations with a couple of RV Dealers, and they have indicated that an average family of 4 loads a trailer with 800 lbs of stuff. One of the guys said this is like loading 50 lbs of stuff in a laundry basket and carrying it 16 times to the trailer, which would equate to 800#s. That seems to be alot of stuff. So, I'm thinking that it is very doubtful that all 800#s is placed in the front end of the trailer, so I'm getting very confused in trying to understand how a dry pin weight of lets say of 2100 lbs grows to 3,000lbs. I guess one way this could happen is by hauling full fresh and grey water tanks in the fifth wheel. If I buy a 3055RL with a dry pin weight of 1965 lbs and an unloaded weight of 11, 075 lbs and and a gross weight of 14,000lbs, and say I put 800lbs of stuff in the trailer with 50% going into the front storage I assume my loaded pin weight should be 2365 lbs. Or an I suppose to be adding 20 - 25% of the gross weight of the trailer which would be a pin weight of 2800 - 3500 lbs? The reason I'm feeling frustrated is because if I add 800 lbs to the unloaded weight of 11,075 lbs I would have 11,875 lbs. So, do I multiply the 11,875 lbs by 20 - 25% in order to get a loaded pin weight? Your thoughts please.

Regards,

David

Hi Bob,

My GCVWR on my truck is 22k, that's right. My truck empty is just under 7k pounds. With a 3670 weighing 12,200 dry (lets call it 13,000 with options and propane/battery) plus my 600 pounds of stuff I'm still under 14k, which leaves me well under my GCVWR.

My primary concern is keeping close to the GVWR of the truck. Secondary, equally important, but less likely to be exceeded is the RAWR. I'm not even close on GCVWR. Which is why all my focus to this point has been on pin weight as that affects GVWR (truck) and RAWR (truck).

David, let me see if I can help you. I have a 2007 2955RL. It is basically the same BH as a 3055RL. It has a gross weight of 14K. My pin weight is about 2900# That is fully loaded for a week of camping. My loaded weight (GCVW) is about 21K and that is with an empty fresh water tank. My fresh water tank is behind the axles. I have a GM 2500 D/A..its GCVW rating is 22K.

Here is the way you have to figure out about loading. A trailer is like a tetter-totter. Anything that is at the center or forward of the axles is going to add pin weight. It gets even a little worse, because most BH's have the axles behind the center of the coach.

You will be surprised how much clothes weigh. Water and sodas packed in the front. A BBQ, some chairs, fishing gear, a ladder, water hoses and poop hoses. All these things add up. OH yes and maybe a 100# tool box. I do believe that all the newer BH's have the fresh water tank over the axles. That's about another 7-800# if full. I think you are getting my drift.

The one thing I don't know is, what truck do you have?? Post back about that. Most 250 or 2500's are at there limit with anything bigger that a 3400RL. JMHO Bob

We haven't weighed our outfit yet but will do so the first time we get to a good scale, but I would think most of the above mentioned 800 pounds or so would go up towards the front of the rv. In our floor plan 3450TS most of the storage is in front of the axles or close to it. We have the entertainment center cabinets and the rear end top cabinets, the over the top of the sofa cabinets that you wouldn't weigh down that much behind or over the axles. So I would anticipate when we do weigh in we will find a heavy pin weight. Again until you actually do weigh, you really don't know. I would think that most rv's carry somewhat similar things and that most would be within 400 pounds or so if the tanks were empty and they haven't installed a big battery bank, or carry heavy tools ect. On ours we did install a small freezer in our front closet where the washer would have went, so there is a little more weight there.

Here is one other thing. the 20-25% pin weight is a number for towing stability. I don't think that number is meant for determining pin weight. If you only loaded to have say, 15% then your trailer would most likely be all over the road. More pin weight, better towing stability.
Just my thoughts.

Peace
Dave

There is only one way to determine the pin weight, trailer loaded or unloaded, take it to a CATS scale and weigh it. My experience with our 09 3055RL went this way. I weighed the truck empty with full fuel to the cap, Debbie, the dachshund, and me in the cab. My B&W Companion hitch and my 110 pound generator were in the bed. I drove back to the dealer, 7 miles, and hooked up the trailer and went right back to the scales. Reweigh was $1. I found out that the trailer was actually 235 pounds lighter than the published numbers with 25 gallons of water in the tank.. The pin weight was 2150 pounds and the mostly empty trailer weighed 11400. We towed it home and packed up for the 8 day trip to Oshkosh. When we left, I drove righr back to the same CATS scale. I spent a few extra dollars to buy their higher priced fuel and filled the truck to the cap. New weights were pin weight went up to 2400 and gross weight went up to 12100. We had added 700 pounds to the truck. When I take it out of storage I will be weighing it again.

Regards

Jeff, I understand what you are saying. I would check with your state DMV. In Calif., the CHP will look at the GROSS WEIGHT sticker on the trailer. and then the weight rating for your truck. They do not care how much the trailer really weighs. They will add up the 16K+7K=23K. Its ticket time. I dont know about Michigan...but I have seen people have to drop their trailers and PAY someone to come and get the trailer that has the proper size truck. There can be issues with insurance if you have an accident if you deemed to be overweight. Not trying to pop your bubble..but...better safe that sorry. Do some checking on the laws in your state. Better yet do some checking on the laws in the states you might travel thru. Good luck Bob

Bob, for some reason that does not surprise me that California would be a state to do something like that. My 3670RL is actually going to have a GVWR of 18k per my understanding, as I ordered the 8k lb axle hidden option with larger brakes and never lube hubs. I don't know that for sure but that's what my dealer told me. I appreciate the heads up on that. I would have assumed they would weigh the rig, in which case I would be fine.

One thing I have learned is that states have lots of different rules. Some enforced, most not. For example in the majority of states, the speed limit on any road is capped at 55 mph if you are towing. Even if the posted speed limit is 70mph. I tow at 62 so I'm probably fine regardless. But here in MI I've seen plenty of RV'ers towing 75+ and the troopers at speed traps don't blink an eye! Seems they'd much rather pull over a car doing 80 (10 over the limit) than an RV doing 20 over.

Jeff, most of the problems here are the kids that buy a 40' toy hauler that has a gross weight of 20K and pull it with a 2500. I will grant you that lots of people are pulling over weight. But does that make it safe?? There are other people on the the road and your family is in the truck with you. Pat likes the 3670 and the 3585 BH's. But I know that we will need a bigger truck. She does not pack light. Bob

Agreed Bob. I'm not advocating pulling over weight. Ever. Many do, that's their choice. I'm going to have to pack extremely carefully to stay close to GVWR on my truck. It will be an inconvenience, for sure.

I would buy a 1 ton DRW in a heartbeat. It's not really the money. It's the fact that it does not fit in my garage, and I have nowhere to park it outside. Not to mention it would drive me insane to leave a brand new $50k truck outside in the Michigan weather.

If you have any of the larger Heartland units then you need a Dually if you are going to load it. You can legally pull most of them with single wheels if you don't overload the coach's. However you are going to be near the limit on your rear tires. That is why some of the folks are going with the 19.5 inch wheels/tires. F350 and up with dual rear wheels is the only answer if you are going to push the loading. There is no problem towing whatsoever with the single wheels, just a tire issue. The brakes on the coach will stop it if they are working properly. If you have one that is stickered at 18K then you automatically have to have a F350 or equivalent.