Slide and floor bottoming out and contacting tires
- Thread starter JohnD
- Start date
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
I've got the trailer home again right now, but have to take it back on Monday.
The repair shop has a basic fix option . . . and what it really needs to have done.
We talked at length and have run this by our extended warranty . . . and imagine my surprise, they are trying to get out of this one just like they declined covering our bearing blowout last January in Phoenix.
To do it right . . . we are looking at replacing both 3500# Lippert axles (which he thinks are not heavy duty enough for our trailer no matter what the sticker says) with bigger Dexter axles with 8-lug instead of the 5-lug wheels we have now (so throw in 5 wheels and tires), plus the new, much heavier springs . . . all of this out of our pocket in the $2000 price range (don't have the exact quote yet).
Now here is the kicker . . .
N*Compass, our extended warranty provider, wants to send out an inspector to evaluate the issue, however, he wants both axles removed from the trailer with springs attached so that they can verify that this indeed is not a user caused issue, plus they want (get this) all yearly required maintanence records provided for the springs?????
OK . . . myself and the shop have read through the warranty paperwork from front to back . . . and we can't seem to find any kind of yearly required maintainence for springs?
Anyone here know what that might be?
By the way . . . and here is the kicker . . . they (N*Compass) made me sign paperwork yesterday approving the removal of the axles for their inspection, but on the paperwork it says that should they refuse this repair (which we both feel is what the likely outcome will be) . . . that I am responsible for the cost of the inspection removal out of my own pocket!
The repair shop owner told me that not only has he worked with many extended warranty companies . . . he used to work for one!
His thoughts are this . . . the warranty company will either flat out refuse to cover this issue (most likely outcome) . . . and at best, if they cover anything, will be the springs only!
In the end, after my $150 deductable, the spring job would cost them out of pocket under $300 . . . which is less than what I would have to pay for the inspection removal!
We have a plan . . . I'll let you know the outcome on Monday!
We went out to dinner last night, where I spelled all of this out for Cathy last night.
What we are now thinking is this . . .
Should we fix our trailer up the right way and keep it?
Or maybe we should just put the new springs on it . . . or leave it the way it is . . . and trade it in for a new trailer?
When we bought this trailer 2 1/2 years ago, this was going to be our hotel on wheels for the next 10 years.
Don't really want to do that, but that may be our best option at this point!
The repair shop has a basic fix option . . . and what it really needs to have done.
We talked at length and have run this by our extended warranty . . . and imagine my surprise, they are trying to get out of this one just like they declined covering our bearing blowout last January in Phoenix.
To do it right . . . we are looking at replacing both 3500# Lippert axles (which he thinks are not heavy duty enough for our trailer no matter what the sticker says) with bigger Dexter axles with 8-lug instead of the 5-lug wheels we have now (so throw in 5 wheels and tires), plus the new, much heavier springs . . . all of this out of our pocket in the $2000 price range (don't have the exact quote yet).
Now here is the kicker . . .
N*Compass, our extended warranty provider, wants to send out an inspector to evaluate the issue, however, he wants both axles removed from the trailer with springs attached so that they can verify that this indeed is not a user caused issue, plus they want (get this) all yearly required maintanence records provided for the springs?????
OK . . . myself and the shop have read through the warranty paperwork from front to back . . . and we can't seem to find any kind of yearly required maintainence for springs?
Anyone here know what that might be?
By the way . . . and here is the kicker . . . they (N*Compass) made me sign paperwork yesterday approving the removal of the axles for their inspection, but on the paperwork it says that should they refuse this repair (which we both feel is what the likely outcome will be) . . . that I am responsible for the cost of the inspection removal out of my own pocket!
The repair shop owner told me that not only has he worked with many extended warranty companies . . . he used to work for one!
His thoughts are this . . . the warranty company will either flat out refuse to cover this issue (most likely outcome) . . . and at best, if they cover anything, will be the springs only!
In the end, after my $150 deductable, the spring job would cost them out of pocket under $300 . . . which is less than what I would have to pay for the inspection removal!
We have a plan . . . I'll let you know the outcome on Monday!
We went out to dinner last night, where I spelled all of this out for Cathy last night.
What we are now thinking is this . . .
Should we fix our trailer up the right way and keep it?
Or maybe we should just put the new springs on it . . . or leave it the way it is . . . and trade it in for a new trailer?
When we bought this trailer 2 1/2 years ago, this was going to be our hotel on wheels for the next 10 years.
Don't really want to do that, but that may be our best option at this point!
danemayer
Well-known member
John,
If the springs and axles were as undersized as your trailer shop is telling you, it seems to me that you'd have dozens, or perhaps hundreds of other Heartland travel trailer owners reporting the same problem. On the other hand, if the springs on your rig had a manufacturing defect, perhaps a batch of poor quality steel, you and perhaps a handful of other owners (not necessarily all Heartland owners btw) would be having problems.
Reports of flat springs aren't very common, so based on that, my non-expert opinion is that you probably have defective springs rather than undersized springs. But since you have to replace them anyway, going up a size is probably a good idea.
On your extended warranty coverage, I have to wonder if the policy would cover the undersized scenario since that might not fit their definition of manufacturing defect. It would be ironic if they agreed with the trailer shop and used that as a reason to deny coverage. Ironic because they might pay to replace defective springs.
As far as the request for maintenance records, you might want to take a look at the Maintenance Schedule in your trailer manual. You're supposed to inspect the springs every 6 months and every trip. That would probably include checking for excess wear in general and especially for worn or broken shackle links, broken or cracked leaves, broken or cracked hangers, and perhaps checking to make sure the springs are properly supporting the coach. Inspecting or not inspecting would have no bearing on keeping springs from flattening, but as you've already found, lack of records will allow them to deny a claim.
Given their past behavior and their records request, and their warning about who pays to remove the axles, I wouldn't remove them for inspection unless you've already decided to replace both axles anyway.
Replacing the axles and hubs and going from 5 lug to 8 lug? Once again, my view is that if the axles were undersized, there would be many, many reports of axle problems. That's not the case. Will the patched axle hold up? I have no idea. If it doesn't, you'll probably ruin new tires and perhaps do worse damage. So maybe it would be smart to replace it. If there's a heavier 5 lug axle available, maybe that would be the way to go for both axles.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents on how you should spend your money.
If the springs and axles were as undersized as your trailer shop is telling you, it seems to me that you'd have dozens, or perhaps hundreds of other Heartland travel trailer owners reporting the same problem. On the other hand, if the springs on your rig had a manufacturing defect, perhaps a batch of poor quality steel, you and perhaps a handful of other owners (not necessarily all Heartland owners btw) would be having problems.
Reports of flat springs aren't very common, so based on that, my non-expert opinion is that you probably have defective springs rather than undersized springs. But since you have to replace them anyway, going up a size is probably a good idea.
On your extended warranty coverage, I have to wonder if the policy would cover the undersized scenario since that might not fit their definition of manufacturing defect. It would be ironic if they agreed with the trailer shop and used that as a reason to deny coverage. Ironic because they might pay to replace defective springs.
As far as the request for maintenance records, you might want to take a look at the Maintenance Schedule in your trailer manual. You're supposed to inspect the springs every 6 months and every trip. That would probably include checking for excess wear in general and especially for worn or broken shackle links, broken or cracked leaves, broken or cracked hangers, and perhaps checking to make sure the springs are properly supporting the coach. Inspecting or not inspecting would have no bearing on keeping springs from flattening, but as you've already found, lack of records will allow them to deny a claim.
Given their past behavior and their records request, and their warning about who pays to remove the axles, I wouldn't remove them for inspection unless you've already decided to replace both axles anyway.
Replacing the axles and hubs and going from 5 lug to 8 lug? Once again, my view is that if the axles were undersized, there would be many, many reports of axle problems. That's not the case. Will the patched axle hold up? I have no idea. If it doesn't, you'll probably ruin new tires and perhaps do worse damage. So maybe it would be smart to replace it. If there's a heavier 5 lug axle available, maybe that would be the way to go for both axles.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents on how you should spend your money.
Doublegranch
Mountain Region Director-Retired
John:
Sometimes you have to cut your loss and move on. I would think about replacing the springs and if that doesn't fix the problem, then trade in the trailer and start NEW...I don't like the idea of your semi-repaired axle and how strong or long it will last you! Be careful should you go on another extended trip with it....Just my opinion and you can always replace your Trail Runner with another one, in which now you know what to look for. On the flip however, $2000 is nothing compared to an upgrade, sales tax, re license fees and another extended warranty (if you got one)...Only you and Cathy can make the decision....Best of luck in working this out....
Sometimes you have to cut your loss and move on. I would think about replacing the springs and if that doesn't fix the problem, then trade in the trailer and start NEW...I don't like the idea of your semi-repaired axle and how strong or long it will last you! Be careful should you go on another extended trip with it....Just my opinion and you can always replace your Trail Runner with another one, in which now you know what to look for. On the flip however, $2000 is nothing compared to an upgrade, sales tax, re license fees and another extended warranty (if you got one)...Only you and Cathy can make the decision....Best of luck in working this out....
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
We are leaning toward having the heavy duty axles put on.
Looking at new and trading this one in was just an option we discussed last night as there is an RV show in Denver today and Cathy was going to a craft show at the same venue, so she might look around just to see what is out there.
I have sent photos to Heartland, who is forwarding them to Lippert, but chances are if they did anything, I'd get the same axles and springs.
Not going down that road.
As for the warranty company . . . fool me once shame on you . . . fool me twice . . . shame on me!
The owner of the trailer shop (who builds custom gooseneck haulers, by the by) and I have already discussed that he will not be taking the axles off until the warranty company inspector (my guess somebody from my dealership since they sold me the warranty in the first place?) looks at the trailer the way it is as he feels that they don't need to be removed to see the problem.
Plus, he wants the inspector to see that you can't even fit a finger between the tops of the tires and the floor of the trailer.
He said that he spent half of the day on Friday getting the run around from them (and I have read all of the email correspondence involving this issue).
Chances are that Tuesday I'll be calling up N*Compass and opting out of their warranty (which is also part of the fine print and I've read it well).
As for the welded axle . . . that is just something we'll have to fix ourselves as the warranty company won't cover that because it was not an approved-by-them repair (imagine my surprise) . . . which is what I expected from them anyway.
If we do trade it in . . . all I will have done is new springs and leave the rest of it the way it is, bad BlowMax's and all!
Anyway, I'm on my lunch break at work, so gotta go!
Looking at new and trading this one in was just an option we discussed last night as there is an RV show in Denver today and Cathy was going to a craft show at the same venue, so she might look around just to see what is out there.
I have sent photos to Heartland, who is forwarding them to Lippert, but chances are if they did anything, I'd get the same axles and springs.
Not going down that road.
As for the warranty company . . . fool me once shame on you . . . fool me twice . . . shame on me!
The owner of the trailer shop (who builds custom gooseneck haulers, by the by) and I have already discussed that he will not be taking the axles off until the warranty company inspector (my guess somebody from my dealership since they sold me the warranty in the first place?) looks at the trailer the way it is as he feels that they don't need to be removed to see the problem.
Plus, he wants the inspector to see that you can't even fit a finger between the tops of the tires and the floor of the trailer.
He said that he spent half of the day on Friday getting the run around from them (and I have read all of the email correspondence involving this issue).
Chances are that Tuesday I'll be calling up N*Compass and opting out of their warranty (which is also part of the fine print and I've read it well).
As for the welded axle . . . that is just something we'll have to fix ourselves as the warranty company won't cover that because it was not an approved-by-them repair (imagine my surprise) . . . which is what I expected from them anyway.
If we do trade it in . . . all I will have done is new springs and leave the rest of it the way it is, bad BlowMax's and all!
Anyway, I'm on my lunch break at work, so gotta go!
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
By the way . . .
Here is the website for the shop I'm working with in case you are interested:
http://www.trailermadetrailers.com/
https://www.facebook.com/trailermadecustomtrailers
I contacted one of the places mentioned to me earlier in this topic thread (Redneck Trailer Supply in Firestone, Colorado), but they only sell parts, and they gave me the name of Trailer Made Trailers!
Here is the website for the shop I'm working with in case you are interested:
http://www.trailermadetrailers.com/
https://www.facebook.com/trailermadecustomtrailers
I contacted one of the places mentioned to me earlier in this topic thread (Redneck Trailer Supply in Firestone, Colorado), but they only sell parts, and they gave me the name of Trailer Made Trailers!
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
I misspoke . . . the upgrade would be to 6-lug wheels.
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
Re: Slide and floor bottoming out and contacting tires . . .
OK . . . time for the update!
I'm going to start out with the inspector that the paid-for extended warranty company ( N*Compass) sent out . . .
Now, before I get into the details, let me tell you this!
If you have N*Compass for your RV extended warranty, call them tomorrow and tell them you want to opt out . . . and don't let them talk you out of it!
These guys are nothing but slime balls screwing you out of your hard earned money!
Period . . . end of story!
Anywayz . . .
I'm looking at a $2000 repair bill to make my trailer the way it should have come from the Heartland factory . . .
And their offer (N*Compass) was to pay $150 of it . . .
YES . . . $150!
Again . . . N*Compass . . . need I say more?????
If you have them as your extended warranty, call them today and cancel!
They are a rippoff!
I'm calling them on Thursday to do the opt-out clause . . .
Now, I wasn't there when the inspector arrived, but according to the people at the repair facility . . . this guy was a slime ball!
They (N*Compass) tried to have me sign off on a clause to have the repair facility to remove BOTH AXLES at my expense so that they could inspect the issues and rule on the outcome.
To which they most likely (and did) decline to cover . . .
My repair facility advised me that they have had plenty of experience with the likes of N*Compass, and told me that they wanted to leave the axles intact on the trailer as they could show what went wrong with the axles while they were still on the trailer!
They even asked the inspector to place his fingers on top of the tires and see if they could slide them between the top of the tires and the bottom of the floor or the slideout (which is impossible) . . . and he declined to even try!
Well . . . let me tell you this . . . without my jacks under my trailer, you CAN'T slide your fingers between the tops of the tires and the bottom of the trailer/slideout.
Which means that the smallest bump in the road will result in the complete trailer bottoming out on the tires . . . and gouging out the tires and ripping holes in the floor and the slideout!
My extended warranty left me out to dry . . . and so far the manufacturer's warranty is unwilling to make our trailer the way it should have come from the factory as well.
Granted that if you look at the calender, the warranty is expired . . .
But if you look at actual mileage on the trailer . . . well, this trailer should have gotten more than a couple thousand miles without any of this kind of issues!
I'll leave that up to you what you want to think about that!
Anywayz . . . with less than 6000 miles total on our 2013 Heartland trailer, we are now looking at two completely destroyed axles, springs, wheel bearings, wheels and tires . . . that should have given us MANY MANY years of flawless service . . . according to the Heartland brochure that was given to us by our Heartland dealership!
But a little over two years from the date of purchase . . . here we are!
I love our Heartland trailer . . . but I'm still holding out on how well they treat the people who purchase their products!
I'll let you know!
OK . . . time for the update!
I'm going to start out with the inspector that the paid-for extended warranty company ( N*Compass) sent out . . .
Now, before I get into the details, let me tell you this!
If you have N*Compass for your RV extended warranty, call them tomorrow and tell them you want to opt out . . . and don't let them talk you out of it!
These guys are nothing but slime balls screwing you out of your hard earned money!
Period . . . end of story!
Anywayz . . .
I'm looking at a $2000 repair bill to make my trailer the way it should have come from the Heartland factory . . .
And their offer (N*Compass) was to pay $150 of it . . .
YES . . . $150!
Again . . . N*Compass . . . need I say more?????
If you have them as your extended warranty, call them today and cancel!
They are a rippoff!
I'm calling them on Thursday to do the opt-out clause . . .
Now, I wasn't there when the inspector arrived, but according to the people at the repair facility . . . this guy was a slime ball!
They (N*Compass) tried to have me sign off on a clause to have the repair facility to remove BOTH AXLES at my expense so that they could inspect the issues and rule on the outcome.
To which they most likely (and did) decline to cover . . .
My repair facility advised me that they have had plenty of experience with the likes of N*Compass, and told me that they wanted to leave the axles intact on the trailer as they could show what went wrong with the axles while they were still on the trailer!
They even asked the inspector to place his fingers on top of the tires and see if they could slide them between the top of the tires and the bottom of the floor or the slideout (which is impossible) . . . and he declined to even try!
Well . . . let me tell you this . . . without my jacks under my trailer, you CAN'T slide your fingers between the tops of the tires and the bottom of the trailer/slideout.
Which means that the smallest bump in the road will result in the complete trailer bottoming out on the tires . . . and gouging out the tires and ripping holes in the floor and the slideout!
My extended warranty left me out to dry . . . and so far the manufacturer's warranty is unwilling to make our trailer the way it should have come from the factory as well.
Granted that if you look at the calender, the warranty is expired . . .
But if you look at actual mileage on the trailer . . . well, this trailer should have gotten more than a couple thousand miles without any of this kind of issues!
I'll leave that up to you what you want to think about that!
Anywayz . . . with less than 6000 miles total on our 2013 Heartland trailer, we are now looking at two completely destroyed axles, springs, wheel bearings, wheels and tires . . . that should have given us MANY MANY years of flawless service . . . according to the Heartland brochure that was given to us by our Heartland dealership!
But a little over two years from the date of purchase . . . here we are!
I love our Heartland trailer . . . but I'm still holding out on how well they treat the people who purchase their products!
I'll let you know!
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
Your experience is very enlightening.
I forgot about the money I have invested in the extended warranty. I will be canceling mine.
I used to be spooked by my rig, but i'm not anymore. There is nothing I can't repair (other than structural) with Ebay, Amazon, a multitude of boat and rv suppliers all over the USA and my PayPal account. Oh and of course the community on this forum that will cuss and discuss every subject until it is dead. If you are any kind of a DIY you don't need an extended warranty.
BTW, if it comes to it, salvage those axles and components you can probably part them out on Ebay and recover some of your out of pocket.
I forgot about the money I have invested in the extended warranty. I will be canceling mine.
I used to be spooked by my rig, but i'm not anymore. There is nothing I can't repair (other than structural) with Ebay, Amazon, a multitude of boat and rv suppliers all over the USA and my PayPal account. Oh and of course the community on this forum that will cuss and discuss every subject until it is dead. If you are any kind of a DIY you don't need an extended warranty.
BTW, if it comes to it, salvage those axles and components you can probably part them out on Ebay and recover some of your out of pocket.
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
The axles that are going to be put on our trailer are 5.2K Dexters . . . a little overkill maybe, but at least I'll know that I won't ever have this issue again.
Also part of the deal are much heavier duty 5-leaf springs, and five tires and wheels.
I'm going to try and get the trailer weighed today just so I know exactly what that number is, and Heartland also wanted to know what it weighs loaded.
We've got snow rollin' in this afternoon, so I've got to get that done before the trailer gets covered in snow!
As for the axles . . . I'm not going to keep them . . . but the springs . . . you bet I'm keeping those!
Might even have them framed!
I am also going to keep the wheels and tires as I have a friend who needs the wheels for his older Prowler trailer, and the tires will at least get him to the tire shop so he can buy new ones.
Also part of the deal are much heavier duty 5-leaf springs, and five tires and wheels.
I'm going to try and get the trailer weighed today just so I know exactly what that number is, and Heartland also wanted to know what it weighs loaded.
We've got snow rollin' in this afternoon, so I've got to get that done before the trailer gets covered in snow!
As for the axles . . . I'm not going to keep them . . . but the springs . . . you bet I'm keeping those!
Might even have them framed!
I am also going to keep the wheels and tires as I have a friend who needs the wheels for his older Prowler trailer, and the tires will at least get him to the tire shop so he can buy new ones.
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
John was that hitched, or did you drop the rig on the scale?
'Lil Guy'
Well-known member
That would definitely make a difference by adding the tongue weight. I would think that Dexter builds in a little cush on their ratings. I don't think they would sell a 3500lb axle that would fail at 3502lbs. Am I wrong in this assumption?
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
I dropped the trailer . . . and pulled the truck off of the scale.
Guess I should have taken a photo while it was on the scale, but didn't think of it as I was holding up the line!
John - I don't know what increments trailer axles and springs come in, but I'm wondering if there's a choice between what you have now (3.5k is it?) and the 5.2k you're looking at. I've heard from many people that significantly "over-springing" an RV is not a good thing to do. Way too stiff. That said, I'm not too learned in this area.
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
Well . . . we are considering our options right now.
I am uncomfortable leaving the trailer the way it is as one full tank of water and the two of us standing in the trailer, and that puts us over the top.
I have already laid out what we plan to do to the trailer, should we decide to keep it as I'm confident of the repair shops advice of putting the heavier duty axles and springs under the trailer won't be damaging to the trailer.
We are also considering doing the most basic fix (replacing the springs) and then trading it in for something else.
We've got a couple of weeks to decide, so I'll lay low in this topic thread until we make up our minds on what we are going to do.
I am uncomfortable leaving the trailer the way it is as one full tank of water and the two of us standing in the trailer, and that puts us over the top.
I have already laid out what we plan to do to the trailer, should we decide to keep it as I'm confident of the repair shops advice of putting the heavier duty axles and springs under the trailer won't be damaging to the trailer.
We are also considering doing the most basic fix (replacing the springs) and then trading it in for something else.
We've got a couple of weeks to decide, so I'll lay low in this topic thread until we make up our minds on what we are going to do.
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
I dropped the trailer . . . and pulled the truck off of the scale.
Guess I should have taken a photo while it was on the scale, but didn't think of it as I was holding up the line!
Something definitely seems not right if you weighed as you would typically travel. We weighed back in 2011 as well and were under our GVWR and spring rating. Springs were looking flat and tire was starting to rub on fender. Springs are inexpensive in the scheme of things, although the axle replacement is probably needed since you have the welded "temp-fix." Yes, it was an unpleasant pill to initially swallow, but we've been all over since and feel it was well worth the investment. We still check the springs, shackles, ubolts, etc., before every major trip and always try to eyeball them along the way. I hope you find a way to get back into enjoying your rig soon.
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
With the help of Terry at Heartland, Emily at Lippert, Jim Belleti here in the Heartland Forums, plus Damon at Trailer Made Custom Trailers, LLC in Northglenn, Colorado, Lippert is going to replace and upgrade both axles and spring sets and I will pay the labor charges, plus I will be upgrading the wheels and tires as well!
We just got the ball rolling today, so not sure when the work will be done . . . at least a couple of weeks out!
I will update when I know more, plus I'll take some before and after photos as well!
We just got the ball rolling today, so not sure when the work will be done . . . at least a couple of weeks out!
I will update when I know more, plus I'll take some before and after photos as well!
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
UPDATE:
Had the axles and springs replaced last Saturday, along with a set of five wheels and tires.
New axles are 4.4K, and went from BlowMax 205/75/15 C range tires to 225/75/15 D range tires.
Now have about five inches clearence between the top of the tires and the bottom of the trailer!
I only drove it about 10 miles home from the repair shop (in a snow storm), but I could definately feel a big difference in the way it handles!
Very solid and no more bouncing around all over the place . . . which is what it has always done since we bought it.
We are heading out this morning for the Colorado HOC Spring Campout, so I'll report when we get back in a few days (only about 15 miles from home).
Plus, I'll post more photos then as well.
In the mean time . . . here is a before and an after shot:
Last shot was Sunday morning with the old BlowMax tires and wheels stacked on the slideout bumper behind the new spare.
Had the axles and springs replaced last Saturday, along with a set of five wheels and tires.
New axles are 4.4K, and went from BlowMax 205/75/15 C range tires to 225/75/15 D range tires.
Now have about five inches clearence between the top of the tires and the bottom of the trailer!
I only drove it about 10 miles home from the repair shop (in a snow storm), but I could definately feel a big difference in the way it handles!
Very solid and no more bouncing around all over the place . . . which is what it has always done since we bought it.
We are heading out this morning for the Colorado HOC Spring Campout, so I'll report when we get back in a few days (only about 15 miles from home).
Plus, I'll post more photos then as well.
In the mean time . . . here is a before and an after shot:
Last shot was Sunday morning with the old BlowMax tires and wheels stacked on the slideout bumper behind the new spare.
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